what do you guys make of this t206?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/69qe9u" target="_new">http://tinyurl.com/69qe9u</a><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>looks like it is stamped on the back to me.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I think it's a desperate seller hoping someone is dumber than he is.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>very strange since he seems to sell a lot of vintage material

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>brock</b><p>Are you the owner of the card?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>no

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>obviously stamped after it was removed from a scrapbook (stamp is over back damage)

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Part of the cigar stamp is on top of the area of paper loss, so this stamp was added later on. Most to all such areas of paper loss on T206s happened long after the cards left the factory and cigarette packs. Also noteworthy is that the Sweet Caporal printing is missing in the area of paper loss, showing that the Sweet Caporal printing came first (as a T206 collector would expect). In short, chronological order is Sweet Caporal printing, then paper loss, then cigar stamp.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Randall Adams</b><p>Interesting how the United Cigar logo is similar to the Crofts Candy logo.<br /><br /><img BORDER="5" src=http://www.cincitec.com/images/ebay/54/back-crofts-candy-black.JPG><br /><br /><img BORDER="5" src=http://www.cincitec.com/images/ebay/54/e70b_12.JPG>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Just another slimy ebay crook who instead of getting a job would rather rip people off. What is with these people that would rather steal than work?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>&lt;&lt;What is with these people that would rather steal than work?&gt;&gt;<br /><br /><br />The hours are better. The supervision is lighter. The job is easier. And the pay is, often, higher.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Th United Cigar Stores Co. was a real company that produced tobacco, and they produced the T38 "Aviators" set (pretty tough non-sports set) and that is their Ad Logo. <br />-Rhett

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>B O'Brien</b><p>I know that I don't have a very weighted opinion around here, but I would like to stick up for this seller. I am not going to say that he isn't misrepresenting an item here, but he has been helpfull with information for me in the past, and is always very nice in the offline dealings I have had with him.<br />At the same time, not a very accurate item description.<br />Thanks,<br />Bob

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Randall Adams</b><p>I believe that I have seen this same card with the United stamp on Ebay twice over the last year, and both times it was sold by two different sellers.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>hey guys!!!<br /><br /><br />edited due to anonymity....put your full name out here and say what you want to....especially about people that torture animals like Scott Elkins does....who happens to be this seller...

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>BO, with all respect, just because he's helpful when providing info doesn't excuse fraud, right? He may be the nicest guy in the world while he's stealing your money. The bottom line is that he's selling a $10 card for $1500 based solely on lies. He's a fraud, period.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't have a rooster in this fight, so I'll stay out of it.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Very nice, Barry. <i>Veerrrrrry</i> nice.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hey, I'm the cock of the walk!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Little Barry ...

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Little Jerry has to take a dive in the fifth round.<br /><br />First of all, I don't think you can get a rooster to take a dive...

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>My favorite part of that episode: George ordering a tamale in slow motion.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Not a great episode, but it has its moments.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ahh...got it -- our crooked seller also abuses roosters! What a shock. I guess if you can torture animals, defrauding people on ebay isn't too far of a stretch.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Scott L</b><p>Have you guys checked out the updated description? Just pointing it out in case you missed it.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p><P>Jeff, I think you touched a nerve with this guy....&nbsp; </P><P>not sure I am officially in the Net54 club but his feed back is NOT as good as mine, but I am not one to brag...&nbsp; </P><P>martyOgelvie</P>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>I wish I had 20/10 vision.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Personally, I am SHOCKED that any nationally known defense attorney would associate with "KNOWN CRIMINALS." Does your Mom know about this? <br /><br />Sounds like you should switch to Real Estate law. Maybe a nice little Title Company? <br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>The seller is a good person I've delt with a few times; in fact we've respectfully disagreed a lot - he asks a lot for his material buts its always been as advertised and accurate.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>I've had only positive experiences with the seller.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>stamp being under the sweet caporal printing and penetrating deep into the card doesn't make any sense to me. what type of ink would have penetrated that deeply into the card stock? also, if the paper loss occurred after the stamp was applied, even if the stamp went deep into the card stock, there is no way the area of ink where paper loss occured couldn't be obscured or at the very least lighter than the rest of the stamp. lastly, how would anyone explain the existence of this card? for what reason could a t206 ever have that stamp on the back? if the card has really been graded by SGC i'd like to see a picure of it in its holder and see how SGC labeled the card.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>What exactly is the deal here? On top of the card below the card what exactly makes it a 1500.00 card?<br /><br /><br />Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> The seller just about alienated half of his potential buyers with that update. I cant believe he actually wrote that stuff,maybe he has no clue how widely read this board is.<br /><br /> The post edited by Leon was from John Vanderbeck(johnnyv or mrvster) who posts often on this board and is one of the more well known t206 "error" collectors. He also had a very in depth conversation with this guy. Hopefully he will read this thread again and re-post what he said.<br /><br /><br /> I dont want this guy coming after me so I wont say anything bad but I would like to point out how truly amazing this card is for the stamp to be so bold despite all that paper loss(its actually darker where the loss is according to the scan) but it didnt show up at all on the front. One of those smart stamps that knows just when to quit. That alone should make the card more valuable,not $1500 but close I would surmise.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Michael Steele</b><p>"Anger Management Class" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Don't take it too hard Jeff...you've forgotten more about the law than he will ever know(which is very little)!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>So what he is trying to say is that this card is a sweet corporal/ united cigars back?<br /><br />And that it is unique? Is that what all this fuss is about?<br /><br />Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>It seems unlikely to me that the ink, particularly around the letters "C" and "I", would be so solid and dark if paper loss occurred in that area with the stamp already extant. <br /><br />On the other hand, if the stamp went on top, it is hard to explain why it didn't show up between the "I" and the "G".

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Steve,apparently some one at the factory took a blank sheet destined for the press run of sweet caporal ads and decided to place a united cigars ad on one of the backs right before it ran thru the machine,im sure the other workers got quite a kick out of it until the boss came in and yelled "Jetson,youre firrrrred!" . They still let that card go thru into the packs of cigs(obviously it was a finished card because it wasnt handcut) and it was one of the approx 5% of t206s that lasted until today and this seller was lucky enough to happen upon the card and let us little knowledge collectors know what it is and then have the chance to bid on it,for the chance of a lifetime.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, being a criminal defense lawyer sometimes makes it impossible not to associate with 'known criminals.' Gee, what a smart comment. Scott Elkins, on the other hand, is a criminal himself who tortures animals for a living. And lives in a double-wide trailer. And claims to be on permanent disability. I'd sue him for mentioning me in his listing but what could I get after mopping the floor with him in court? Three lint balls and some more T206 cards with the backs ripped off which he claims are rarities? Scott, I know you're reading this so all I can say is I'm happy that you're taking your anger out on me and not on the poor roosters that you dress up in spurs so that they can tear each other to ribbons in front of you.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Hilarious. Now he is using ebay as his forum to light into Lichtman. hahaha. He just can NOT get the bitching and grandstanding out of his system. Since every forum he had used in the past has booted his a$$, it will be interesting to see if he discovers ebay as the new soapbox location. hee. Look for it - the fake auctions for a piece of paper for a penny, created as a front to give him a place to complain about how unfairly Jeff and Leon treat him. hahahaha. I'm going to add "Lichtman" and "Leon" to my ebay searches for awhile. <br /><br />I don't care what his feedback record is or what experiences people have had with him in transactions. His lifestyle and behavior toward animals trumps all, in my book. <br /><br />J

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Elkins' little 'hobby' of torturing roosters is now illegal in all 50 states and all civilized countries. Yet he's angry with Leon and me (and countless others) who have criticized him for abusing animals. His long-winded explanations about how the animals love fighting to death sound about as believable and intelligent as the explanations that go on during a NAMBLA convention. Sorry, but I won't back off criticizing his support of illegal torture of animals or his fraud on ebay. I'm just wondering whether I should put an associate on a one week mission to sue him and bring me that double-wide.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Lichtman is evil.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, if you want to represent me you can have 1/3 of a double wide. That's almost a full trailer.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Jeff, <br /><br />You live in the New York area. What the heck are you going to do with ANOTHER double wide? Now... if you lived in New Jersey, depending upon which exit, you might have something you could use.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"THERE IS ANOTHER LIE - I HAVE NEVER HARMED A ROOSTER."<br /><br />Elkins just emailed me this.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>People don't harm roosters, roosters do.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, there's a nice courtyard in the back of my apartment building. And don't kid yourself -- one can never have enough double-wides.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Jeff I may have a conflict as I already represent NAMBLA and the East Stone Gap Cockfighting Association but I can try to get consents.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Jeff, <br /><br />Too bad you don't have a place in Rhode Island. You could just put it out back, up on cinder blocks, and let the grass grow up around it. (You know, next to the car that last ran during the Nixon administration.)

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>This is the guy who also claimed to bet on his cockfights, until it was pointed out to him that while cockfighting (at the time) was legal in his state of Virginia, betting on it wasn't. He then said he didn't say he bet on cockfights in Virginia. Since betting on this pastime of the intellectually arrested, was illegal in all states at the time. unless he left the United States to do his betting, he engaged in illegal activity. A criminal association, by anyone's definition, I would think.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Cockfighting has been part<br />of American culture for a very long time. In the United States, famous presidents, who were lovers of the<br />game, were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and Abraham Lincoln (“The<br />History of Cockfighting”). Abraham Lincoln got his nickname “Honest Abe” not for his politics, but<br />because of his honesty as a cockfighting referee (Berger). It was socially acceptable and encouraged for a<br />gentleman to have a flock of gamecocks and to be an expert on the sport. At one point, the U.S. became a<br />center for cockfighting activities and events. Cockfights were even held in the committee rooms of the<br />President. It is said that the fighting-cock almost became the national emblem. It lost by one vote to the<br />American eagle. However, cockfighting declined when the civil war started.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Darn. So slavery was abolished and then cock-fighting. What next, let me guess -- women will be allowed to vote? Too bad Elkins wasn't around those times, huh?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>That paragraph pretty much sums up those gentlemen's attitudes towards slavery, at the time.<br /><br />"socially acceptable and encouraged."

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>as a historian, i can tell you that you would be very surprised at how people really felt about slavery. you aren't exactly accurate bob.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>My point was really, that cockfighters Washington, Jackson and Jefferson were also slaveholders, so their cultural attitudes are not above question.<br /><br />While attitudes about slavery may have varied, depending on what part of the country one is discussing, the south supported slavery strongly enough, to fight a war to preserve it.<br /><br />I think the July 1863 Draft Riots, showed a pretty strong and widespread (tens of thousands participated) distaste for emancipation among New York's citizens, also.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>it might come to the surprise of many that new york city was at one time the central hub of slavery. if you came to the new world before the end of the transatlantic slave trade chances are the first place you landed was new york city. <br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jeff be careful I think Scott is on the phone right now discussing his lawsuit with his attorney....and other buddy who likes to threaten lawsuits..<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/redneck.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/FatNerd.jpg"><br /><br />Besides I would sue if I were you Jeff, just imagine the new wardrobe you could outfit your chickens with from the Elkins Line after all he puts the "Chic" in Chicken with his new spring line up!<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/3-japan_01.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/3-japan_03.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/chicken3.jpg"><br /><br />And to think he might have been able to sell it if it wasn't for us Net54...<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/websize/MeddlingKidsPosterper20forper20geekper20speak.jpg"><br /><br />Oh well I wouldn't worry to much Jeff he will be busy with the new 2009 Krispy Kreme Calendar folks in his neck of the woods really get excited about this bad boy!<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/huge/ATT00005MA9644053-0001_1.jpg"> <br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Thanks for the "Elkins on the crapper" image, John. Oh well, didn't feel much like lunch anyway. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>david Poses</b><p>are those fat chicks part of a card issue? i think i saw ms. october with a cycle 350 back on ebay. it was a PRO slab, though...

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Comeon, not a single offer for Elkins' piece of crap? Is there not a single kind soul to help supplement Elkins' disability payments so that his roosters can literally be dressed to kill (and be killed)? What a great country: ebay fraud + disability money = all that free time to molest roosters!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Getting caught up on my reading after being away from a computer for a week (and you know it wasn't as tough as I thought it would be).<br /><br />My take on this discussion:<br /><br />The card? Legit.<br /><br />Fraud? Don't see why seller being accused of it.<br /><br />Libel? At least not on the part of the seller.<br /><br />It was a fun read.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Just couldn't bear to eat my best ones once they lost.<br /><br /><a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/net54%20resized%20photos/?action=view&current=00001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/net54%20resized%20photos/00001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Have you guys been down to the bodega? Some idiot bounced a clown check.<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ROBERT ADAMS JR</b><p>I owned this card at one time . Had in hand and though the United Cigar emblem was original and first printed for what that is worth .

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>sgc labeled the card as a sweet cap for what its worth.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>sgc labeled the card as a sweet cap for what its worth<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Can't argue that.<br /><br /><br />Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>am I missing something?<br /><br />I am trying to understand why anyone would believe that this card was stamped first?<br /><br />I think people forget that the cards are printed on a large press sheet. <br />Even if you wanted to stamp the card.... why would anyone stamp a blank press sheet with absolutely no guide as to where to place the stamp?<br />How would that person know where to place the stamp.... so that it is not cut off (part on the card / part off)?<br /><br />Stamping an item before it is printed and cut makes zero sense.<br /><br />In all of my years in the printing business - and with all of my years of pulling wisdom from other generations of printers in my family and in my industry - I can't ever recall a time when a press sheet was pre-stamped before printing. <br /><br />In short - it would be moronic.<br /><br />The paper-loss explanation in the listing seems incredibly strange and unbelievable.<br /><br />IMO - the paperloss PROVES that the stamp was there after the printing.<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"In short - it would be moronic."<br /><br />Joe, perhaps a lifetime of molesting roosters and skirting employment in favor of government handouts would allow you to see it a bit more clearly. <br /><br />Meanwhile, SGC manages to label an "Old Put" overprint but missed this "underprint". And not a single offer for this beauty; who'da thunk it.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>you are in dire need of carpet based on that purple stuff you have, I do own a carpet store if case you have a great card to trade for some rug.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, I heard he has a couple of red Cobbs lying around.<br /><br />PS--best post of the day. Nice to see you're not just focused on cards. Or roosters. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Joe Brennan</b><p>D.Davis September 6 2008, 6:22 PM <br /><br /><br />you are in dire need of carpet based on that purple stuff you have, I do own a carpet store if case you have a great card to trade for some rug.<br /><br /> <br />Now that's funny right there. I don't care who you are. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>Wonka -<br /><br />I just sent you an email.<br /><br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joe<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />edit: Joe B.... although I don't get what Lichtman and Dan K are referring to....<br />to your reference I can say..... get'r done!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>What i don't understand is if the print is an 'under print' <br />why wouldn't SGC authenticate it as such?<br /><br />Even if it is not mentioned in the standard cat?<br /><br />Wouldn't they want to be the first to attribute it as such?<br /><br /><br />Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Dan,<br />No purple carpet, just too much time on my hands. I saw that image in a local auction awhile ago, and knew if I waited long enough, I'd be posting it. Just didn't know the carpet would get the laugh, not the bronzed roosters.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>david</b><p>Probably because sgc does not want to be the first associated with a bogus variation. But that is just a guess. The stamp is under the paper loss which suggests that the stamp was applied before the paper was layered to create the final thickness stock. So the stamp was applied to one layer of paper, then the final layers were applied. The cards were printed and then scrapbook removal reveals a hidden t206 back variation. And there is overlap between the stamp and the real back. Another situation which defies reason. Why people continue to insist that this card is legit is beyond me.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Joe Brennan</b><p>D.D.<br /><br />You never know what this crowd will find amusing. <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>DD, you definitely get credit for the bronzed roosters....but how Dan K could turn that into an attempt to sell you pimp-purple carpet -- that takes the cake.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, no one offered even a plug nickel for Elkins' piece of crap. I did notice, however, that he continues to read this board feverishly and respond by updating his auction and extolling all the kind email he received about the card and the "unfair" accusations that he's just a fraud (granted, an animal-abusing fraud). I guess all that alleged support didn't translate into anyone actually bothering to offer him even a pile of dirt for the card, however, despite his claim that this card is a "new discovery." Another new discovery might be Scott Elkins with a job.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>shucks you guys. we missed the chance to get the card for 1500 and now he's going to raise the BIN because no one bought it.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I am just sitting here at my desk laughing.....thanks for that one!!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>SC</b><p>"Probably because sgc does not want to be the first associated with a bogus variation. But that is just a guess. The stamp is under the paper loss which suggests that the stamp was applied before the paper was layered to create the final thickness stock. So the stamp was applied to one layer of paper, then the final layers were applied. The cards were printed and then scrapbook removal reveals a hidden t206 back variation. And there is overlap between the stamp and the real back. Another situation which defies reason. Why people continue to insist that this card is legit is beyond me. "<br /><br />If this was the case, and the stamp was an underprint...why would we see any part of the stamp besides where the paper is missing? For this theory to work, you'd have a stamp printed on the layer of paper underneath the surface. But we shouldn't be able to see the stamp that is in the area showing the Sweet Caporal logo?<br /><br />I can't see how the stamp can be on both layers of the card, unless it was applied post-production.<br /><br />This really doesn't seem that hard.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Tim</b><p>If he really does send this card to Kevin S. as his listing said, I will be interested in what Kevin has to say.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>I will trade my new line just in which has 4 purples including Triple pimpin purple. I will show a scan of the line in the next few days.Truly a classic line just for kids!<br /><br />Just a Tolstoi Red CObb and I take care of de room !

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, I knew you'd come through. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />From one non-carpet guy to the Master, however, I have to ask: is there such a thing as a "new line" in carpet? And where the hell were you when I was carpeting my apartment two years ago? I have at least one red Cobb and any number of 58 Topps cards to send send your way.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>To me, what the seller thinks he sees and is saying in his sales pitch is nothing but an optical illusion.<br /><br />What I think has happened is that the original lettering was put down in strong, red ink while the "underprint" was put down over that REALLY lightly in black ink. Because the red is SO strong and bold and the black is faint and light, the red ink stands out. So much so that it LOOKS like the red ink is hovering over the black ink.<br /><br />Maybe an artist, photographer or person familiar with optical illusions could comment on my theory.<br /><br />David

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>you need the carpet, you call me with your product and I ship it to the closest distributor in your area. Knowing your address I could have saved you enough to buy 5 Cobbs as I am sure you had gotten the 5th ave hosing. Just for you know what and giggles , email me your product and size (do not want to know price) and I will send you an email of what I would have charged . This is of interest to me because I advertise the lowest price in the state of MIchigan. Surely I would be the lowest price in state of NY with ease.<br /><br />I still want to change that soiled purple carpet above that noone claimed. That is the result of SHOES ON THE RUG !<br /><br />Jeff- how did you get away with the 58 topps here , isnt this a pre war chat board? I will take your 57's though as long as they are sgc 86 and above ! oH and dont forget to include the CObbies.<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>Hi all,<br /><br />I have the card in hand and can say without any doubt that the "cigars logo" was printed first and is well under the Sweet Cap. <br /><br />The section of thin paper loss just exposed the logo creating a bolder look. There are small parts of paper loss on the logo as well. <br /><br />It's the real deal and a nice example in my opinion.<br /><br /><br />Kevin<br><br>------------------------------<br /><br /><a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p><P>Thanks for the update Kevin..... </P><P>Thats incredible.. any speculation as to how the stamp got there???</P><BR><BR>martyOgelvie<BR><IMG height=1 src="http://tinyurl.com/6elqle" width=1>