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08-29-2008, 02:39 PM
Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Most of collectors are aware that the Burdick Collection is housed<br />in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and that the New York Public<br />Library, The Hall of Fame, The Boston Public Library and <br />The Smithsonian each have formidable collections of rare baseball cards.<br /><br />What other museums/public institutions have large collections?<br /><br />To what extent are they accessible to the public?<br /><br />Which collections can be viewed on line?<br /><br />There are also samples of items which were given to the government<br />for patents which are on file- some of which can be viewed on-line<br /><br />Our idea would be to create a web site which includes all the collections<br />A business model could be created which would generate income for these<br />highly cherished public institutions. <br /><br />Baseball is such a vital part of American History, that the right group<br />of people could certainly make this a reality.<br /><br />Your thoughts?<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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08-29-2008, 02:54 PM
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>In my experience, there is a ton of red tape to sort through to develop interconnecting relationships between sharing art work from museum to museum.<br /><br />In any event, these links are the best ones I am aware of:<br /><br />Library of Congress<br /><br /><a href="http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/bbhtml/bbhome.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/bbhtml/bbhome.html</a><br /><br />NYPL Spalding Collection<br /><br /><a href="http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?parent_id=137159&word" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?parent_id=137159&word</a><br /><br />NYPL Wagner<br /><br /><a href="http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/id?PS_ARN_CD1_07" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/id?PS_ARN_CD1_07</a><br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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08-29-2008, 03:01 PM
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I think that's a great idea.<br /><br />There would certainly be logistical challenges, and the costs involved with professionally photographing the material (and travel, etc), as well as some web design charges involved with putting together a professional layout.<br /><br />The only speedbump I could envision would be how to generate income. Unlike most fine art, very few items in card collections are one-of-a-kind. In other words, if you want to see what a T206 Wagner looks like, you can find an image easily enough. So your potential paying viewer would be limited to those people who would be interested in paying to see the items in the context of their larger collection, or to view the few one-of-a-kind items that each of these collections contain.<br /><br />Another speedbump would be the fact that so many private collections are already on display, on Card Registries and personal websites and the like. Plus, you can find many examples of scarce cards in old auction catalogs.<br /><br />Conceptually, though, I love the idea of a central resource for viewing museum collections.<br /><br />-Al<br /><br />

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08-29-2008, 03:08 PM
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>paul- great links, thanks!

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08-29-2008, 03:08 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I agree with Al.<br /><br />Bruce - its a great concept..... but I don't see the business model or much financial gain if a revenue source can be found.<br /><br />Actually - if it is the full museum collections that will be displayed... I think it is more likely to cannibalize museum attendance.... resulting in an overall loss of revenue.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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08-29-2008, 03:13 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Joe- a lot of institutions discourage the public from viewing their collections. It is not easy to get an appointment to see either the Spalding or Burdick collections, and if the library had its way, they would prefer people only view the Spalding material online. It is a nuisance when they have to bring all the boxes out, some which reside on different floors. You get the cold eye from them every time.

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08-29-2008, 03:16 PM
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>The New York Public Library houses the Goulston collection of baseball cards, including the Wagner at the link in my post above. It was quite a challenge getting to see it, and my experiences are one of the reasons I think getting all of the material viewable, let alone in a centralized location, is basically a non-starter.<br /><br />For those who want to read about my experiences viewing the Goulston collection, I wrote a brief article about it on my website. <br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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08-29-2008, 03:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>Barry....<br /><br />I was giving a general commentary about museums exploring a business model of showing entire collections online (and I was thinking honestly.... beyond just cards - but my opinion holds even if we are talking about just cards). I am not sure the idea makes good business sense. Maybe it does.. I just don't see it yet... and I haven't heard a compelling business model argument yet.<br /><br />I did not know that about the difficulties... or the lack of enthusiasm by the libraries to show these items. Are you sure this is a result of actual institution policy?... or is it merely people who hate their job and don't want to do something that requires a little extra effort? There is a big difference between an organization's policy or intentions and the intentions of employees who just would rather their day was easy. <br /><br /><br />Joe<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />edit: grammar (probably still wrong)

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08-29-2008, 03:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Bruce - any thought to putting your collection online?

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08-29-2008, 03:38 PM
Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Bruce--Great idea! Another one to consider is Wharton Tigre's collection at the British Museum. There is also a collection at the Detroit Public Library.

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08-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Joe- probably a little bit of both. Regarding both the Burdick and Spalding collections, there have been problems with theft, as well as damage to items that have been handled too many times. So the institutions have made it more difficult for the public to view them.<br /><br />Then of course there is the fact that the clerks who have to show the collection are forced to do extra work above and beyond whatever other duties they have. So they are not thrilled.<br /><br />Here's an anecdote: about five years ago I was researching the Spalding Collection and discovered that they possessed a Harry Wright season scorebook from 1893. I wrote an article about the scorebooks some years earlier for VCBC and was not aware of this one at that time. I asked to see it and brought it over to a reading table away from the front desk.<br /><br />When I opened the volume I found tucked into the front cover some newspaper clippings, as well as an 1887 World Series scorecard! If you are not familiar with them they are not much bigger than a bookmark when folded in half, but quite valuable. In an auction one could easily sell for $7500, maybe more. And because they are so small they of course could be easily stolen. I went back to the front desk and pointed out how important a relic it was, how easily it could be stolen, and that the library should take extra precautions with it.<br /><br />I don't think I ever saw a more disinterested look in my life. I was actually asking this librarian to do some extra work, and he simply didn't want to be bothered. For all I know, that scorecard may already be gone.

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08-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Thanks T 206 Collector<br /><br />Does anyone know if the Boston or Detroit Library collections are on<br />line and the extent to which The HOF has digitized their baseball<br />card and photo collection<br /><br />As most of you are aware, 95% of what the HOF has is hidden away<br />and one has to make an appointment to see it..<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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08-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br />We also wonder whether the British Museum has put any<br />of the tens of thousands of cards (including hundreds of<br />Old judges and T206s and Ramlys left by Wharton Tigar<br />on its web site?<br /><br />We were unable to locate it. We had heard from a colleague<br />in the UK that the entire tobacco collection would eventually<br />go on line<br /><br /><br />Any Board Members from the UK?<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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08-29-2008, 03:45 PM
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>barry - that is an amazing story.<br /><br />sadly, as you suggested may be the case.... I would have to bet those items are already gone.

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08-29-2008, 03:49 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Nice suggestion Bruces.......I would also like to see more collections on line. When we get our links page working again I will get Brian, or myself, to add some of the sites that show collections....I really enjoy having most of mine online but I show it on the board so much I don't really need a seperate site <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>....

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08-29-2008, 05:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p><P>The Library of Congress site that Paul linked to has been invaluable to me.&nbsp; If you click on the library of congress&nbsp;link near the top you will find even more incredible images from our past... <BR><BR></P><P>martyOgelvie</P>

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08-29-2008, 06:37 PM
Posted By: <b>Greg Theberge</b><p>Bruces,<br /><br />You can access the McGreevy collection at the Boston Public Library at:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_public_library/sets/72157604192772559/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_public_library/sets/72157604192772559/</a><br /><br />I hope you and yourselves enjoy the site.<br /><br />Greg<br /><br />

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08-29-2008, 06:46 PM
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...sites are the future of card museums. And if we're all linked on Net54, well, then the Bruces dream has come true...<br /><br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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08-29-2008, 07:47 PM
Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Leon<br /><br />We would to suggest a special section within the Links section<br />(once it is repaired). You may want to call this section<br /><br />"Library and Museum Links"<br /><br />We appreciate everyone's assistance on this matter.<br /><br />By the way for those who have not yet seen it, we suggest you<br />may want to look at David Rudd Cycleback "Guide to Sports Photograph"<br /><br />This 2006 book appears to be on special with Amazon and provides<br />some excellent background information on early Sports Photography.<br /><br />Have a good holiday<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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08-30-2008, 12:29 AM
Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>That Burdick Wagner has the big bottom border, doesn't it?. In addition to whatever machinations occurred due to Wagner's legal status in the T206 issue, is it possible cards on the bottom of the press sheet may have been subject to higher rejection levels by quality control than cards appearing elsewhere on the sheet? That card looks like a "bottom feeder" to me.

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08-30-2008, 08:00 AM
Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>Greg,<br /><br />Thanks so much for that link to the McGreevy collection! I've always been aware the Boston Public Library had some great baseball images but that's the first time I've seen any. A number of those photos are images I've never seen before. <br /><br />Dave,<br /><br />In regard to the Burdick Wagner, here is an image. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1220097461.JPG"> <br><br>

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08-30-2008, 09:23 AM
Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Very nice centering and dimensions on the Burdick.<br /><br />Here is a link to which is becoming, if not already, the largest online collection of cards. Over 100 complete "N" sets, and almost as many "T" and "R" sets. I'm not sure how many include baseball cards, but there are some there.<br /><br />Click on the Allen & Ginter link (second to last row) and you will get every N28, N29, N43 for example. The Duke link has N165. The Other link has N360. Other sets are spread out, but the link is fast and shouldn't be too hard to find others.<br /><br /><a href="http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns-start/showtime.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns-start/showtime.html</a>