SGC grading submission.....opinions?

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Fixing to get this in the mail to SGC. Wanted to check with the masses here though and see what everyone thought. Bust it out or leave it in? Will it cross to a SGC 84? Only if raw? Will I get even luckier and get an 88? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Or will I get smacked and get a 80? <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />My own thought...is leave it in the holder and submit as is....but willing to listen. <br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/asphaltman76/d350jamesf.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Let me submit it for you and get a VG/EX 4

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Dan-<br /><br />I'd have figured if you'd of submitted it, it would have just got picked off in the mail or something before even getting there. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Is that a little spot of loss on the back? On the bottom of the rectangular border?

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Dave:<br /><br />My guess is that SGC will grade it at the same level if there are no real defects that cannot be seen from the scans that you provided. Centering looks like the main concern. I would submit it in the holder and you can request a minimum grade to cross-over.

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>If you bust it out you run the risk of getting an "Authentic", I've crossed over several cards with numerical grades that have received "A"'s by the other grading company.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />Its not paperloss on the back...but that is how the card looks. It also has the other weird areas on the back in the frame ...which is strange to me...

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Sabrmetrically speaking I'd go with an 86 then.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I would not bust it out. I would just submit it with "Only cross at 84 or higher" on it. SGC seems to be very honest in their assessment of crossovers. This way all you risk losing is the submission fee. By the way, unless there are issues that can't be seen in the scan (and the missing ink mentioned above is not paper loss), I see no reason why it would not cross at at least the same level. Very nice card.<br />jimB

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>absolutely gorgeous card, Dave.<br />congrats!<br />leave it in for a great grade methinks.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>it looks like psa got this right, but on the way there with the mail handling it could go from an 84 to a 60. why spend extra money just to get in another holder?

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Quan-<br /><br />I guess just personal preference. I can't stand PSA holders any longer. I don't have any at this point other than this one and the CJ Jackson I picked up. This was is especially ugly to me in the baggy sliding around. It would just look a lot better in a SGC holder. And I really feel that way regardless of if I'd keep it or at some point want to trade it. <br /><br />I'd want to do the same thing with the CJ Jackson, but with the corners chipped I just don't feel good enough to submit it without it coming back just AUTH, especially having to pay the higher grading fee for that card.

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Posted By: <b>Jim Rivera</b><p>let Dan submit it for you and they will lose it altogether HA!

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Posted By: <b>Tony Andrea</b><p>I agree with Jim B. Leave it in the holder and ask for an equal grade cross or better.<br />If they say no, have them return it as is.<br /><br />Tony

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Thanks for the opinions. A little better scan here<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/asphaltman76/d350jamesfront.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>The centering will keep it at an 84....very nice card Dave.

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>i'd leave it as is if i were you. just my opinion, but the centering might be an issue for getting that 84 from sgc. i've submitted some cards that were flawless but slightly off center like yours and have gotten back 80s everytime. sgc seems to be really inconsistent with their 84s and what they consider acceptable centering for an 84. i've e-mailed them several times about their standards and explanations for why the following cards i will post received 84s and my cards didn't but never got a response. here are some really questionable 84s sgc has given out to give you some hope.<br /><br /><img src="http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/madjams/collins.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/madjams/hubbel.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>The SGC centering standards for an 84 are 3 to 1 (75-25) as measured by a Peak scale lupe. Thank you for your interest in SGC grading.<br />Thank You,<br /> Glyn Parson<br /> SGC

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>i dont think i've seen a card with more than a 3 to 1 ratio that wasn't missing a border. you should be in the clear.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Are you saying you have never seen a 90/10 or 80/20 card, with a border? Or just one graded an 84 with the variance of more than 3-1?

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>what does a 90/10 card look like? i can't imagine a card more off center left to right than that collins i posted.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I don't have a ruler and this isn't my card but this is probably 80-20 or 85-15, imo.....top to bottom of course<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1216322538.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>thats one of those missing a border cards i was talking about. the bottom border is pretty much gone. i didn't mean physically missing a border, like it was trimmed, but that the border was missing in so much as its not really visible.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's not missing the bottom border.

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>i dont want to give off the impression that i dislike sgc. i happen to think sgc is a great grading service. i've found sgc to be at times very strict in its centering minimums and at other times very lax. so the point i was trying to convey to dave was that he's looking at a 50/50 chance depending on who is in that day and who's hands its in. it seems as though some graders at sgc have different standards than others, which i guess is something you'd have to assume when dealing with different people. i will always prefer an sgc holder over a psa one, but i, just like many others, get frustrated when the chips dont fall my way as they have for others.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>My experience is that SGC can be fairly tough on these SBs and their E135 counterparts, and that alot has to do with the card surface, which often presents well but can have non-distracting little impressions or slight mars that are almost never visible in the scans. <br /><br />As for the back, SBs often have uneven inking in that square "frame" surrounding the text, and those little bars can blur together. The centering should not impact the grade.<br /><br />Here are 2 SBs of mine (I think the 60 looks nicer all the way around) and an SGC 86 Boston store that has simlar if not worse centering.<br /><br /><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff265/nolemmings/17sbmitchell.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff265/nolemmings/17sbguisto.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff265/nolemmings/17bsgilhooley.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Interesting. I wasn't even thinking about the centering being too far off for an 84. But yes, based on the Collins posted a few up makes you wonder where the hardline really is.

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Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>Be careful when judging things based on scans. Without having the card in hand I can't tell you whether there is an overhang of the insert or something similar that makes the centering look that bad. Ali if you in fact own this card and feel it is overgraded please feel free to send it in and if we agree we will gladly buy it back. It is not our wish to have overgraded SGC cards on the market. As for who sees it I can tell you Derek Grady sees nearly 100% of all cards that go through the company and would not let a card that is centered 90-10 go out the door in an SGC 84.