Can Somebody Help With This Photo

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>Does anybody know at what event this photo was taken? It is a mounted photo, circa 1910, and Ed Walsh is pictured next to the man in the center. Does anybody know the event or can you identify any other people? Your help is much appreciated.<br /><br />Scott<br /><br /><img src="http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff8/scgaynor/Cabinet.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Rawn Hill</b><p>Bill Carrigan just to the right of center.<br /><br />Rawn

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>With nothing other than instinct to go on -- but since there are wreaths in this photo -0- could this be from the Addie Joss memorial game played c. 1911<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>hats are removed too. memorial?

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Rich,<br /><br />I was thinking the exact same thing! 1911.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Same thought crossed my mind... a July 1911 game, and I think it was Cleveland vs a team of American League all stars. I think Walter Johnson pitched in that game. But if that is what it is, a Boston bat boy looks out of place.<br /><br />Someone on here will know where to look for that info. A 1912 Spaulding Guide would be a good place to start.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>I don't believe Walsh was at the Joss game, and there isn't anyone wearing a Chicago uni in my copy of the panoramic print from that game.

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>This is a WAG, but could the tall guy in the middle be Cy Young?

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>The flowers, everyone looking somber-faced, the lack of headgear...something saddening was afoot, to be certain.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>And if my recollection is correct about July, then what's the deal with the coats and sweaters???<br /><br />I no longer think this is the Addie Joss Memorial game. But is within a few years of it....

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>July 24, 1911

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>here is more proof it's probably not the Joss game:<br /><img src="http://www.baseball-almanac.com/images/Addie_Joss_Benefit_Game.gif">

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Not that this narrows it that much, but that's the Chicago road uni used between 1902 and 1916 (the fact that it's Walsh means it's 1904-1916). Since the Boston boy is there, perhaps we have a location - Chicago at Boston on Memorial day?

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>Maybe it's from a pre-game memorial for Red Sox manager Chick Stahl who committed suicide a couple of weeks before the 1907 season. If it was a pre-season exhibition game in Boston it would account for the apparantly chilly weather.<br /><br />Howard

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>I don't have any association with this website, but from this picture and a couple of others on the site, it appears horseshoe flower arrangements may have been common at ceremonies, somber or not.<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/5r8uok" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5r8uok</a><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Alan,<br /><br />Actually, you're right. I seem to recall a floral arrangement shaped in a horseshoe fashion in photos from when Cobb and Lajoie were awarded Chalmers motor cars in 1912.

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Posted By: <b>ROBERT ADAMS JR</b><p>Impossible to say from a single photo but that is a VERY grim group .

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Right behind Ed Walsh I believe I see Harry Lord looking over his shoulder. Doesn't help too much as Lord played with Boston AL from 1907-10 and then for Chicago AL from 1910-1914. It does look like he is wearing a dark collar (like Walsh), if this is the case the pic would be from 1910-14.<br />-Rhett<br /><br />Here is portrait of Harry Lord...<br /><img src="http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254lordboston.JPG"><br /><img src="http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254lordchicago.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>It could be me but the older guy holding his hat in his hand on the right side of the pic looks an awful lot like Frank Bancroft.<br />-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>If the batboy's uni is accurate, it appears to match up with the Red Sox uniforms of 1910 and 1911.<br /><br />Someone mentioned Memorial Day. It does seem the Chisox played in Boston on 6/1/11 (Walsh winning pitcher)and both teams were off the preceding day, meaning the day AFTER Memorial Day, but that's likely just a coincidence.

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>All good idea's, please keep them coming, it gives me some other avenue's of research.<br /><br />Thanks guys.<br /><br />Scott<br />

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Posted By: <b>brock</b><p>Not much help, but the guy in the middle looks like he is posing for a photo with the guy to his left. So i dont think its for someone that had died. But then you see the guy to the far right and it looks likes hes crying or something.<br /><br />Looked up something and seen in 1910 Frank Chance suffered a near-fatal beaning, so maybe they made the wreath for him to get better?

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Posted By: <b>Hal</b><p>Walsh's Chicago uniform appears identical to those shown on some of the White Sox players in the E107 set, and the Boston batboy's uniform actually appears identical to those in a photo of the 1903 Red Sox in Ken Burns' Baseball series. It's hard to tell, but the batboy's hat appears to have the horizontal stripes characteristic of uniforms of the mid 1890's - early 1900's. My guess is the photo is circa 1903 and obviously a memorial or funeral of some sort.

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Posted By: <b>brock</b><p>If it is from 1903 i found this while looking threw a site. But its the summer so i dont know why they would wear their sweaters?<br /><br />07/02/1903 AL/NL batting champ Ed Delahanty, disappears, found dead days later <br /><br />I pulled up bostons Schedule from 1903 and around the time ed went missing and then his body was found and then he was buried the red soxs played the Chicago White Stockings. if the players in the photos are wearing their home/away jerseys it could be from the day Ed was buried 7/10/1903. They played the white sox at home on 7/8-7/11.<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/schedule.php?y=1903&t=BO1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/schedule.php?y=1903&t=BO1</a><br /><br />Edited for lots of changes

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Scott, I have faith that eventually this bunch will figure it out...<br /><br />The big guy in the middle, is that Billy Sunday? I have a pc of him somewhere, I need to dig it out and compare the faces, unless someone can check that. Figuring out who he is might be a key, he's kinda in the middle of it all.

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p>Agree with Harry Lord and think the player on his left in the sweater with arms folded may be Walt "Red" Kuhn who played with the ChiSox 1912-14...

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Great photo... Sorry, no help with this ceremony. Uniforms suggest 1910 at Huntington Ave. <br /><br />Below, a pretty close match, Jerry McCarthy, Red Sox mascot from 1910-12 perhaps even longer.<br /><br />Photo, 1912 WSC;<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1215828386.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Shawn Chambers</b><p>My off the wall guess...<br /><br /><br />Some kind of celebration in late 1911 honoring Walsh for his no hitter against Boston in late August of the same year. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Steve. Awesome research what kid. Looks like him. IMO

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Steve. Awesome research picking out the kid. Looks like him. IMO Pretty neat photo

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>.....I'm don't see them, but the bearded guy in the middle with the bad breath is definitely Willie Nelson....

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Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>Perhaps its a Memorial day event as suggested<br />and as the US was in WW I in that time frame, <br />so a somber tone was appropriate.

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Posted By: <b>Danny Grimes</b><p>fielder jones to the left of walsh?

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>It's a "loving cup" presentation, involving someone in either the White Sox or Red Sox organization, between the years 1910-1914 (the years Lord and Walsh were on the White Sox, and Carrigan was on the Red Sox -- they are all definitely in the picture). Probably taken shortly before the actual presentation, since everyone appears to be looking around and waiting for something to happen.<br /><br />Here is a photo of a similar presentation to a Yankees manager in 1912. Note the wreaths, and the presence of representatives from both teams:<br /><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2164/2163876654_464c5e09fa.jpg"><br /><br />I think if you can identify the guy in the middle, then you've got it.<br /><br />Given the White Sox away uniform and the Boston bat boy, this presentation took place in Boston with the recipient being someone from the Red Sox organization. Probably someone who recently retired. I ruled out Hugh Duffy, who's last year managing the White Sox was in 1911, because he's not Boston (and that isn't him anyway). It could be Patsy Donovan, who's last year managing the Red Sox was also 1911. If it's Donovan, I'd say the photo is 1912.<br /><br />It might also be Jimmy Collins. He's a HOFer and managed the Red Sox before Donovan -- here's a picture:<br /><img src="http://www.redsoxdiehard.com/history/pics/jcollins.jpg"><br /><br />Billy Sunday bears a resemblance, but I believe he would be too old at the time of that picture.<br /><br />And obvious question -- where's the trophy? Probably about to arrive ...

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Posted By: <b>Rawn Hill</b><p>Will again state that it is Carrigan to the right of the man in the middle and it was definately a home game for the Red Sox. I agree that Lord is correctly identified. <br /><br />Rawn

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Posted By: <b>ROBERT ADAMS JR</b><p><a href="http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/?action=view&current=Cabinet.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/Cabinet.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/?action=view&current=180px-Billy_Sunday_1921.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/180px-Billy_Sunday_1921.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Billy Sunday ? Actually , this looks like someone being " Saved " .

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>I think Big Ed Walsh was at least 6 feet tall, does anyone know if Billy Sunday was tall? The guy in the picture looks 3-4 inches taller than Walsh.

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>I may be crazy, but I still can't rule out Cy Young, although the ears may be too high. <br /><br />Most other pictures of Cy with his hat on don't look like him, but I can't seem to find an older picture of Cy with his cap off.<br /><br /><img src="http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee252/robclem21/Cabinet2.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Butch &amp; Co.</b><p>The big guy in the middle definitely bears a facial resemblance to Sunday, but, per Alan's question -- had the same thought here -- <I>Total Baseball</I> lists Sunday as 5'10", Walsh as 6'1". If indeed that's Walsh in the photo, the fellow in the center must be at least 6'3", 6'4"... <br />

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Another idea ... <br /><br />May 17, 1912 was the date of the dedication ceremony for Fenway Park. Boston Mayor John "Honey Fitz" Fitzgerald, grandfather of President John F. Kennedy, threw out the first pitch.<br /><br />And according to the on-line Baseball Almanac, the the Red Sox played the White Sox that day: "One of baseball's original cathedrals, Boston's Fenway Park, (built at a cost of $350,000) was formally dedicated as the visiting White Sox beat the Red pair 5-2 before a capacity crowd."<br /><br />So, the Fenway dedication would be an on-field ceremony that fits the time frame and the Boston location, and would explain the White Sox in the photo, the sweaters (mid-May in Boston) and the various "dignitaries" milling about.<br /><br />Honey Fitz could be the man in the middle of the picture. He would have been about 49 at the time, and the guy in the middle looks about that age. Also, he looks an awful lot like the Mayor of Boston in the middle of this 1910 picture: <br /><img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f327/patlizmeg/HoneyFitz.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>brock</b><p>It could also be because the titanic sank in 1912.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>...but the fellow some have identified as Sunday has a pronounced widow's peak in the photo in question. Sunday does not seem to have this physical feature, although the two men really DO look alike.

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Posted By: <b>Jerry</b><p>Wasn't there a memorial game fro Jimmy McAleer also.<br />Don't remember when or where it was though.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>McAleer didn't die until 1931 if I remember correctly. What tragedy befell him 20 years prior to his death that would have called for some sort of "passing of the hat"? As far as I can recall, he was an executive around the time this pic was taken.

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Posted By: <b>Jerry</b><p>McAleer was the manager of the All Stars in the Joss memorial game thats is probally how I associated him with a memorial game.<br />

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Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>Thanks for the help on this. I knew that it would be a longshot to identify the specific event, but at least we were able to get the names of a few of the other players. <br /><br />Much appreciated.<br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Cobb's head above the wreath

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Posted By: <b>ROBERT ADAMS JR</b><p><a href="http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/?action=view&current=Cabinet.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/Cabinet.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/?action=view&current=lena.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x160/bobadams123/lena.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Possibly Lena Blackburne next to Lord ?

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Posted By: <b>Butch &amp; Co.</b><p>Been waiting for someone to put a name to that remarkably distinctive face... here's a better photo for comparison: <br /><a href="http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Lena_Blackburne_1886" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Lena_Blackburne_1886</a> <br /><br />And some additional interesting info on Blackburne and his lasting legacy to baseball: <br /><a href="http://baseballrubbingmud.com/main.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://baseballrubbingmud.com/main.htm</a> <br /><br />Mainly, though, <I>if</I> the IDs of Lord, Blackburne, and Walsh are correct, that would strongly suggest the photo in question is from either 1910 <I>or</I> 1914. All three were at least semi-regulars with the Sox in '10 (Blackburne's rookie year), but Blackburne played only five games for Chicago in 1912 and did not play in the majors at all in 1911 and 1913. He was a full-timer again in '14, although Lord played only 21 games for the Chisox that year. <br />