Good News From PSA on Bumps

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>While my resubmission of nearly 450 or so cards had less than 10% upgrades<br />(all cards passed the strict standards of PSA again upon close examination), it neverthess had good news. Ten of the 40 upgrades crossed to 9s(all pre-war) and 4 of my 33 Goudey Sport Kings Set bumped to 8.5. Particularly noteworthy was that two of my cards obtained from collector extraordinaire and HOF member Don Louchios in THE trade bumped to 8.5--Ty Cobb and Bobby Jones--creating thousands of dollars in value in one fell swoop.<br /><br />Its a happy night.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jerry</b><p>My SGC40 E90-1 Common was better than I thought it was going to be.

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p><i>all cards passed the strict standards of PSA again</i><br /><br />A funny night, too, Jim. Thanks for the chuckle.<br /><br />And congrats!

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>We are all so happy for you we can hardly contain the excitement.<br />-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Anthony N.</b><p>How did you do on the Tango Eggs Jennings?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Hi Anthony,<br /><br />I think that one stayed at an 8.<br /><br />Annabelle just sent me the certs that crossed and I did not check that one. Just checked my 9s and my 33 Goudey Sport Kings Set.

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Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>That was pretty funny, although I suspect the humor was entirely inadvertent. Did any of the cards have printing at the bottom, or, perhaps the better question is, were they supposed to? I hear PSA sometimes doesn't do quite as well with them. In any event, congrats on having passed PSA's "strict standards upon close examination." I'm sure you must be proud.<br /><br />Kenny Cole

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />I'm so happy Jim I could slap an elderly woman around and steal her purse. Congrats buddy. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Kenny,<br /><br />Absolutely.<br /><br />Under close examination all of my cards were deemed legit--looks like all the care I put into buying them has paid off--and of course having Cobb and Bobby Jones bumped to an 8.5 is out of this world. Not enough to overtake Ireland but it may allow me to pass all-world collector Don Spence and move into 4th place--perhaps the first time I have ever passed him in a set!

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I'm curious if Jim's experience on the bumps is above the average of the typical PSA customer who submits blindly. I'll bet just about anything that his average is higher.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />Reflecting the care I put into when purchasing the cards and my keen eye I presume <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />or perhaps reflecting the fact you carry their payroll the weeks you submit.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>At least until Spence sends his collection to PSA to once again go under that close examination and strict standard for a second time at a reduced rate.<br /><br />PSA: Fleecing the competitive nature of the PSA registry folks since 1993<br />

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>jim- obviously starting such a self-stroking post is gonna get tons of negative responses...so be prepared.<br /><br />onto the subject at hand...<br /><br />"Under close examination all of my cards were deemed legit"<br /><br />someone correct me if i'm wrong, but during a bump review, PSA will ONLY either keep the card the same or bump it. there is no chance for it to be deemed not legit or get lowered during this review.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>At less than 10 percent it does not sound to me like Jim got any special treatment.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>To my Georgia neighbor,<br /><br />Carry their payroll?!<br /><br />Joe has sworn me to secrecy but I am sure you would be surprised at what my submission price is. I couldn't fund the Alpharetta Chess Club.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Mike, that's correct.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Your correct Michael. Jim is just being Jim.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, a) you don't know what the bump average is on prewar cards; and b) it is clear that Jim did get special treatment on his submission costs.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Jim is the only person I know who equals more population than the Group......

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Mike,<br /><br />Self-stroking???? I thought board members would be interested in how I do in resubmitting my collection. I'm sure you will be interested in my 150 T206 PSA 8s.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>How do you know what I know? In fact, the unstated premise of my post was that I have spoken to several guys who submitted a fair number of cards for reviews and Jim's results are consistent with theirs.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, are these regular people submitting blindly? Or PSA HOF members (sorry, just typing that makes me laugh out loud) with special submission deals with PSA?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Just tryin to make y'alls board more interesting Leon with some real prewar card chatter--now get back to work on your next catalogue so I can be a happy customer of B&L auctions

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />We HOF members equate the PSA HOF with Cooperstown so show some respect!!!

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Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>LOL, I think "blindly" is the key word in your post. After having seen the good work done by PSA in the Kelly post, its difficult for me to get too excited about PSA's "close examination." I wonder if the blind grader still works for them, and, if so, what sort of ADA accomodation was made for him/her.<br /><br />edited to delete an excess word

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Two dealers and one collector. All seemed to be at about the ten percent level. If that is in fact what is happening on a broader scale, I suppose there are two possiblities. One, they are applying their standards consistently and only about 10 percent of 8s meet the more exacting requirements for 8.5. Two, they have a predetermined percentage they want to bump and it is somewhat arbitrary.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Mazel Tov Jim !!! <br />I'll see you at the National.<br /><img src="http://vbbc.forumotion.com/users/17/23/61/smiles/136179.gif">

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Of course Peter Spaeth is correct here(naturally). His percentages are right on the money. To suggest I get preferential treatment on grades is ludicrous. <br /><br />Kenny Cole--are you saying that Reza does not know what he is doing--the guy has a great rep in the hobby among serious collectors and dealers.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, fair observation. It's hard to imagine that PSA graders are awake enough that of all cards submitted for a bump just 10% make the grade via fair reviews. Much more likely that Orlando -- he of the $9 stock price, half of what it was three years ago -- has determined that 10% is the number, period.

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Jim:<br /><br />Nice bumps. The Cobb must be stellar. Show us a scan!<br /><br />Are the T206s going in?<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Jim, I bet you would be surprised how little everyone here cares about your submission results. How many times do you have to tell us that you are getting a "special rate" on submissions, does it make you feel special? Honestly, do you see any other threads on this forum similar to this one? You aren't the only collector sending cards in for submission. <br /><br />I am genuinely happy for you that you got some more "equity" in your collection. You have a great collection, nobody denies that, but when come here talking about "numbers" on a slab, how does that edify and uplift this forum?<br /><br />Just my 2-cents<br />-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>I'm saying look at the Kelly post, which is pretty distressing. Then tell me why and how excited I should be about PSA's grading abilities.

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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Jim, <br /><br />Looks like your new non-altered collection is coming along nicely. You really do have a desercning eye. Congrats to Net54's resident uber-collector! <br /><br />I'm sure I speak on behalf of the rest of us armpit collectors when I express how proud I am to have the honor of posting in the same thread as you. <br /><br />Thanks for sharing with us!<br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thanks Alan--whatever that means--hope to make it to the National. <br /><br />I know everyone is on pins and needles over who will be inducted into the Hall this coming year, the famous PSA luncheon and of course JPs and Mastro's parties. Now if they only had some cards I needed at the National.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, you work in NYC -- do you really not know what the term "Mazel Tov" means?

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Jim- i'm easing-off of PSA 8 T206's, market for them is too volatile...getting into other areas of collecting.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Ryan,<br /><br />You're welcome--appreciate it.<br /><br />Rhett,<br /><br />Really--I doubt it--I just set a net 54 record in how quickly one could go from zero to 35 posts at a time when most posters are in bed. If you are not interested fine--

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Not only that - you've distracted everyone from another post showing how Microsoft is giving away hundreds of dollars for free. That's more impressive then the post count.

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Jim, I am simply responding to when you stated "I thought board members would be interested in how I do in resubmitting my collection"<br />-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Mike,<br /><br />You are right about the volatility. Just when I started to sell some the market dropped.<br /><br />Hey--your turn to buy me a drink in NYC.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Jim - It just means congratulations. You joke, but I'm actually rather curious to find out who the 2008 PSA HOF inductees are.<br /><br />Alan

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Jim- fair enough. i'm in Italy next week...maybe the following week.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>The real question that comes to my mind is how does Ryan remember the exact misspelling of "discerning" every time he posts it?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Alan,<br /><br />Thanks for the explanation.<br /><br />I am very interested as well. Last year I sent Joe an e-mail saying that while Don Spence was a no-brainer for the Hall of Fame he really should not overlook Steve Soloway who has an incredibly extensive collection--just lower grade than current HOFers.For the first year ever, Joe accepted two into the Hall.<br /><br />I have not given it as much thought but three names that come to mind for induction into this year's Hall are Greg Ireland based on his extensive high-grade pre-war collection, MOSH(Museum of Sports History) based on a simply unbelievably extensive high grade football card collection and Mike Rakosi-- the king of high grade vintage basketball. I hope he takes two again.<br /><br />Anthony, Peter, Alan what do you think?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />Someone else did it last week but I would appreciate it if people did not bring up my employer's name on the boards. Thanks <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, fair enough.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Jim not sure there are enough basketball sets (not counting the real modern stuff) that it would make sense to include Rakosi in the company of the other guys whose collections are so extensive; that said it is phenomenal what he has.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>A small sample, but just for comparison's sake, I submitted about 15 of my E93s (cherry picked the ones I thought had the best shot) and about 15 other cards from throughout my collection. I got four total bumps - two E93s, two others - out of thirty cards submitted. I am by no means a big customer for PSA and it looks as though I got a higher percentage bumped (13.3%) than Crandall. I must say that I am still baffled that some of the others did not get bumps. These are a couple that I thought were sure things.<br />JimB<br /><br /><img src="http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8017/t205mattypsa8ec0.jpg"> <img src="http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8735/e93everspsa8dl0.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim B, your sample isn't a fair comparison -- you picked the ones you thought were the best of your 8s. Jim C sent his in en masse. There should be no question that you would have a higher yield.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>JimB- that Matty is the best example i have ever laid eyes on...amazing card!<br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Jeff,<br />That is a good point, but just for the record, I sent in everything from 4's to 8's, though mostly 8s.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Thanks Michael.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Gorgeous T205!

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />The 68 Topps Test Basketball set is legitimately rare and Rakosi has the best set in existence I think.<br /><br />Rakosi's 48 Bowman, 57 Topps and 61 Fleer sets are all-world and by far the best.<br /><br />Surprisingly there are a lot of vintage basketball sets in 1950s and they are all legitimately rare. See Jeff Mullen's website or see the Vintage Basketball board on Net 54 for some of these.<br /><br />Lastly Mike has been very helpful to myself and others in allowing us to finish PSA 8 sets.<br /><br />Still your point is a good one Peter--vintage basketball is a smaller world.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>My next submission will be my Ramly's, T205s, T206s, 1887 Allen & Ginters, 1887 Old Judges and 1933 and 1934 Goudeys.

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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Dan, <br /><br />It's really been more of an inside joke between me, myself and I, but it's awesome that several of you think I'm so retarded (you are not the first to point out the correct spelling of "discern" to me): <br /><br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1211408488/last-1211487017/New+PSA+Set+Registry" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1211408488/last-1211487017/New+PSA+Set+Registry</a><br /><br />4 posts down for the original "desercning eye".<br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ryan, even sadder is that I've actually laughed at that joke/spelling every time you write it -- I actually remembered the first time you noticed the misspelling.

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Posted By: <b>Anthony N.</b><p>While not to take away from anyones awards or achievements on any of the registries, I think PSA would do better to honor some of those that have gotten the hobby to the point where they can grade 12 million cards and have 35,000 sets registered, or whatever they're at.<br />With the National being in Chicago, who more deserving and more timely than Lionel Carter? To me it's a lot like putting Buck O'Neil in the Hall of Fame, but arguably even more deserved. A card collecting Hall of Fame without the Barkers, Quinns, Burdicks and Carters seems lacking.<br /><br />BTW, I believe it's Scott Ireland, not Greg.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Congrats Jim.<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Mr. Ireland's first name is, indeed, Scott.<br /><br />I do think PSA's hall of fame is just that - PSA's hall of fame. It should be filled with big-time PSA collectors. As long as we keep it in perspective by acknowledging that there are plenty of others out there with equally dynamite collections who just so happen to not be PSA registry collectors, or even high-grade collectors, we're fine.<br /><br />As for this thread, I do think it's kind of cool when people share their submission results. While I recognize that not everyone here collects - or even cares about - graded cards, many of us do, and it's always nice to see other people's results.<br /><br />-Al<br /><br />Edited so as to be more verbose.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Ryan, for the record I knew you were misspelling it on purpose...I'm just simply amazed that you seem to remember how to misspell it exactly the same each time.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>I had the pleasure of meeting last years PSA HOFer Stephen Soloway. When I congratulated him on being inducted, he said he was the "poorest" of the registry guys - that many others had higher graded cards, but he was very proud of his complete sets.<br /><br />I thought Mike Rakosi was already in the HOF, but if he isn't he definately should be. I am extremely impressed with his collection of basketball cards, especially his 1948 Bowman. And, I am very proud to be one of his collecting friends in the hobby and part of his fan club <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>"all cards passed the strict standards of PSA again upon close examination" <br /><br />This is not an accurate statement since PSA has deemed cards not meeting the standards for the half grade bump would be returned unchanged. Does not matter if they are over graded, graded accurately or never should have been graded. I am quite certain Jim's statement above was said to get a reaction from people. At least I hope Jim has not been drinking PSA's Kool-Aid.<br /><br />Jim I thought it was ok to reference your employer since you have done so many times. And as recently as March 18 2008 in <A HREF=" http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1204039961/last-1205834767/Jim+Crandell%27s+personal+thread">this thread.</A><br /><br />Greg<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Anthony,<br /><br />Of course you are right--I know a Greg Ireland(I have never met Scott) and got confused.<br /><br />Alan,<br /><br />I am also proud to be part of Mike's fan club. If you are in NYC he is also a stand-up comic at the Comic Strip. All vintage basketball cards go through Mike--I still would probably be working on my final 48 Bowmans and 57 Topps if it wasn't for him.<br />Steve should be proud--he has more complete graded baseball sets than anyone--probably even Don Spence.<br /><br />Greg,<br /><br />No sweat--I would prefer to keep my employers name off the boards. Thanks.<br /><br />Me say something just to get a reaction?? You know me better than most and you have never even met me.<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I just want to know if the PSA Hall of Fame is a good place to take the kids on a rainy Saturday afternoon?

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Posted By: <b>Kenneth A. Cohen</b><p>This is the first I've heard of a PSA Collectors Hall of Fame. Do they issue HOF postcards for each inductee? Is there an event where one can get them signed, and then slabbed by PSA/DNA?

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Posted By: <b>Jimcrandell</b><p>We are signing items at 10-12pm Thursday morning at the national outside the PSA booth.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- once you are a member of the Hall you can get a premium for your signature. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>I'd be a collector<br /><br />Rich

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Posted By: <b>Jimcrandell</b><p>I was going to charge $10 an item but then I heard that Marshal was charging $25--of course we have to give half our signing fee back to PSA.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>NM<br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>For those of you who can't make the show but would like a signed picture I will do it at no cost as long as supplies last jdc122@aol.com

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />Jim,<br /><br />Getting at you that bad to see this link floating down the board?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Jim--Congratulations! The hobby is all about getting pleasure from what you are doing and you seem to have derived a lot of pleasure from this. Good for you.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Dave,<br /><br />If thats your way of asking for an autographed picture, you have to provide your e-mail address or your street address and I will personally give you a copy.<br /><br />Actually this was suggested by a fellow board member(give out signed pictures HOF 2006) so I decided to post it.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />Thanks! <br /><br />Always trying to give something back to the hobby(but not my 49 FB Leafs)<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Jim--I've already filled the holes, but that was funny.

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Posted By: <b>sagard</b><p>Jim-<br /><br />Did you screen your 8s before re-submission or did you just send off a set at a time?<br /><br />Does it seem like PSA is more likely to bump cards with killer corners or does centering seem to be a key?<br /><br />Congrats on the bumps and are you considering re-re-submitting and finding out if you garner another 10% bump rate?<br /><br />Good luck on your next batch.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Sagard,<br /><br />No--I never looked twice at them--just sent in whole sets or what was in 8 in that set--34-6 Diamond Stars, 55 Topps All-Americas, 41 Double Play, 61 Golden Press, 53 Bowman Black and White, 54 DanDee, 54 Red Heart, 48 Bowman baseball, 36 S&S.<br /><br />No plans to resubmit these until my 24,000 other psa 8s are looked at.<br /><br />Killer corners/centering?--don't know probably both.<br /><br />Thanks for the good wishes.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>My understanding is that centering is the paramount consideration as by definition an 8 should already have quite strong corners.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Peter,<br />Centering is what I also found was paramount, after submitting mine. This makes me question all the more why the two cards posted above did not get bumps. I may bring them to the National for a re-evaluation or explanation.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>PSA says cards must exhibit centering that is at least 5-10% better than the minimum standard for a particular grade to be eligible for a half grade bump. I have heard they are also very picky about other time-of-manufacture defects such as printing imperfections, out-of-register image, etc. in awarding the bumps. Like Peter I would expect corner wear to be less of a factor -- can the graders really identify an "8.5 corner" on a spectrum of corner sharpness between an "8 corner" and a "9 corner"? I wouldn't think so; it is probably too narrow a range to make such distinctions.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Eric, also taking into account the fact that an "8" corner is nearly flawless as it is. Therefore, how can an "8" corner be better than flawless? I would think centering and other variables would cause the grade to push to 9. That and having the words "JP Cohen" on your return address label on the submitted package.

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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p><i>Therefore, how can an "8" corner be better than flawless?</i><br /><br />Well, you must have a discerning eye, for one thing.

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Posted By: <b>Anthony N.</b><p>If centering is paramount how did this card get a half grade?<br /><img src="http://members.aol.com/elgladstone/images2/EGG101A.jpg"><br />

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Posted By: <b>Kenneth A. Cohen</b><p>Please forgive my ignorance but I don't know much about hobby glitterati. Who is JP Cohen?

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I may be wrong but I think it might be the owner of Memory Lane.... not 100%.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>People tend to think that all resubmissions are from 8's. While I do not doubt a lot are, that is not always the case. <br /><br />On the centering issue, I was told by a PSA representative that that to get the .5 bump, the card must have the centering of the next higher grade.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i have owned many 8's that have touches on the corners (nowhere near "flawless")...i actually have to say that i think corners are paramount vs. centering when you get into 8's, 9's and even 10's...it's all about the corners. i have owned all of the above grades, and many of them have been off-center...but PSA seems to care most about corners, in my experience.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p><img src="http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7057/33goudeyruth53qi8.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Bill Kasel</b><p>JimB, your cards are amazing! <br /><br />What's more amazing is that PSA cant get an E93 to fit into a secure slab. That floating card look is an abortion....you'd think they could oh I don't possibly re-engineer the slabs to make it more attractive. Then again, it is PSA.<br /><br />Bill

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Thanks. They do have slabs that fit E93s now and I have had all of mine re-holdered. The scan above is old - from before reholdering. I just have not rescanned them.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Kenneth,<br /><br /><br /> Whole lotta threads about JP Cohen....<br /><br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/search?searchterm=%22JP+Cohen%22&sort=date" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/search?searchterm=%22JP+Cohen%22&sort=date</a>

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>have you (or anyone else you know) re-submitted the same card more than once to see if it bumps on the subsequent review? I'm pretty confident that, for better or worse, PSA's objective eye is somewhat biased towards achieving pre-determined results that any review submission not exceed X% of bumps...<br /><br />I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that if any of these uber-collectors, Jim included, re-submitted their non-bumped cards another time, a significantly greater than zero percentage of them would get bumped.<br /><br />Congrats, Jim -- huge scores on the Sports King upgradess.<br /><br />Marc

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Gotta agree with Marc.<br /><br /><br />It is a PCT game.<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Marc,<br />I have not, nor do I know anybody who has submitted twice. All the cards I submitted were re-holdered with new flips indicating they had been reviewed for a bump.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>jim i remember u buying that ruth at the national in chicago...hopefully it got a 5.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'll give that Ruth a 5.5. Let's see if I can make PSA's grading Hall of Fame.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>4.5?

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Hard to play guess the grade with only a front scan.

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>I think it is all about the corners (and edges and surface, i.e. defects related to age and handling) -- for determining the whole grade as a starting point. (And all four corners have to be '7 corners' to get a 7.) Then there is some range allowed within each grade for centering and print defects, which if exceeded will result in a drop in grade or the assignment of a qualifier. I'm suggesting that the half grades are mainly for identifying the cards that qualified for each grade based on corner/edge/surface evaluation, that are particularly strong with respect to centering and print quality. It's not quite all that simple, since many cards have a weird mixture of condition attributes, but I think that's the gist of it.<br /><br />That yellow Ruth looks like about a 6.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>PSA 4

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I agree with Peter - 4.5<br /><br />Peter - I want my Hutson back!<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Back is clean and centered. There are no minor wrinkles or anything like that.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Was it in a GAI case before? Looks like a 5; corners a little too worn for a 6.

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>I suppose you're right, I better change my guess to 5. It's a nicer looking card to me than some PSA 6 Goudey Ruths I've owned however. Really pretty.

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Posted By: <b>steve yawitz</b><p>5?<br><br><a href="http://imageevent.com/yawie99" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/yawie99</a>

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Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>I dont know about modern grading standards (IE if there is a pinhead sized stain on the back SGC would give it a 2)<br /><br />Having said that, that Ruth is the walking definition of a 5 and if it was in a 5.5 holder I wouldn't complain one bit. There is not a person in the hobby who has been around before grading who would call that anything less than EX.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Well only one person got it right. I bought it in a 4 holder at the Chicago National a few years ago, as Quan mentioned. I submitted it for a bump a couple of months ago and it was denied. What to do?<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- that card is better than a 4. Submit it to Sloate's Friendly Grading Service (SFGS) and I will give it a 5.5.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Seems a very low risk proposition.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Jim - what holder is it in and where did you submit for a bump? It looks like it's in a GAI slab. If both GAI and PSA thought it was a 4, then maybe we're missing something in the scan?

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>It is currently in an SGC 50. It was never in a GAI holder to my knowledge. Maybe I should cross it to Barry's new company. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Jim - SGC has it as a 50 and it was resubmitted to SGC for a bump?

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>i agree with rhys, i wouldn't think twice calling that ruth EX. jim if u ever sell it in the future you'd be leaving money leaving it in an sgc50 holder...u know someone will buy it and it'll end up in a 60/5 holder down the line.<br /><br />quan

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Posted By: <b>Frank B</b><p><br />&gt;&gt;All the cards I submitted were re-holdered with new flips indicating they <br />had been reviewed for a bump. JimB&lt;&lt;<br /><br /> Jim - are you saying that new holders are standard for a resubmit?<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Frank,<br />I don't what is standard, but that is what happened with mine. I also submitted my other E93s just to get reholdered out of the condom holders into the ones that fit them properly. Even though these were not reviewed for a bump, they got the new flips too, as if they had been reviewed.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>If I remember right, PSA did say that all cards that were reviewed would be reholdered so that it would be evident that they had been reviewed. That was not the initial plan, but was something they decided to do upon feedback from collectors. I think I read about that here on one of the threads when they announced half grades.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>JimB- i actually thought what PSA "changed" regarding their bump system, was that cards that were newly graded or bumped (basically all new flips), have the digit (6,7,8, etc) below the text (NM-MT, etc)...people complained that you cannot tell if a card had been reviewed (unless it was bumped, then obviously it had a 1/2 grade attached to it) or not becasue the new flip looked like the old flip...so they created that as a way to differenciate between old slabs and fresh ones.<br /><br />the way i understand it, is that they review a card thru the slab, if it meets the standards for a bump, it will get cracked & re-holdered (new flip). if it doesn't meet the standards for a bump, it is left in the current slab (same flip).<br /><br />can anyone else confirm this?

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Posted By: <b>Frank B</b><p><br />&gt;&gt;the way i understand it, is that they review a card thru the slab, if it meets the standards <br />for a bump, it will get cracked & re-holdered (new flip). if it doesn't meet the standards for <br />a bump, it is left in the current slab (same flip).&lt;&lt;<br /><br /> That's the way mine were treated. No bump gets you the same slab/same flip. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I submitted several cards for review under one of PSA's specials. One of my cards had the old style, very early label. It was reholdered, not per any request of mine, with the new label so it now has the appearance that it's a recent grade. I was pleased as I hate the old labels, and this was done even though the card did not bump. <br /><br />All cards that bumped received labels with the grade on the bottom line. The cards that did not bump kept the same labels. All cards kept the same cert numbers as well.

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Here are eight PSA 8 cards I recently submitted for review. All were cards that I thought at least had a shot at a half grade bump. I don't have the cards back yet, but I got the results: two out of the eight cards received bumps from NM-MT 8 to NM-MT+ 8.5. Looking at these results, it appears that good centering and print quality for the grade are necessary to get a bump, but not sufficient. Whoever said they are looking closely at corner sharpness when doing the reviews was probably correct.<br /><br />This '53 Bowman Mantle was bumped to 8.5, but the '54 Bowman was not:<br /><br /><img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/53B_Mantle.jpg"> <img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/54B_Mantle.jpg"><br /><br />This '54 Topps Aaron did not receive a bump, but the '54 Topps Kaline did:<br /><br /><img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/54T_Aaron.jpg"> <img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/54T_Kaline.jpg"><br /><br />Both of these '55 Bowmans were rejected for the bump:<br /><br /><img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/55B_Aaron.jpg"> <img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/55B_Mantle-1.jpg"><br /><br />Both of these '62 Topps were also rejected:<br /><br /><img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/62T_Maris-1.jpg"> <img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/net54/62T_Aaron-1.jpg"><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Eric, thanks for the info -- though I have to tell you I can't tell the difference between the 8s that were bumped and those that were not. Regarding the 62 Maris, because the flip shows the grade on a second line, is it possible that card had already been submitted for the bump and rejected? Or does your scan reflect the new flip provided post-review?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Congrats on the bumps to 8.5. Quite honestly they all look the same to me <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>....take care

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I may be wrong, but it seems that everybody is getting about the same percentage bumped, something in the 20-30% range. If this is true, I wonder how objective this system is.

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Leon -- thanks, they all look about the same to me too.<br /><br />Jeff -- I haven't gotten the cards back from PSA yet, so I don't know if the rejected ones got new flips. I bought the '62 Maris several months ago on eBay; assuming that rejected cards don't get new flips, it must have either been submitted raw or re-holdered to get the new-style flip (although it could have been rejected on an earlier review after it already had the new-style flip).

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Barry -- I have to believe they are trying to apply an objective standard of some kind, as opposed to filling some sort of arbitrary quota, but it's not quite clear to me exactly what that standard is. In any case, the number of cards receiving bumps, at least in the higher grades, continues to be low, based on the reports we've seen so far.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>By the way, I made a mistake on my Goudey Ruth above. I went back and checked my records. It was a GAI 4.5 when I bought it. I cracked it and sent it to PSA raw hoping for a 5. It came back as a 4. Resubmitted a couple of months ago for a bump and was denied.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Eric<br /><br />The Kaline looks like it has a soft corner (TR) Does it?<br /><br />Also, the Aaron looks sharper to me.<br /><br /><br /><br />Nice cards.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>Steve -- yes I think the '54 Kaline is a tad soft in one corner, although I actually haven't looked at the corners that carefully. But the centering is about as good as any I've seen on that card. So maybe one factor compensated for the other when they decided to give it the bump to 8.5. I think the corners on the '54 Aaron are less than razor sharp also, but again I haven't inspected them very closely. Looks like a real nice card to me.<br /><br />This is the first time I have submitted any cards for review, just to see what I would get, and I haven't seen enough half-graded cards to figure out what the pattern is. It's hard enough to make sense out of the whole grades sometimes.

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Posted By: <b>mintauctions</b><p>Jim.<br /><br />What is the cost for PSA to examine each card you submit for possible grade bump? Do they charge a set price or is it based on the value of the card? What is the difference between the cost for a reviewed and declined card and one that is reviewed and bumped (thus reholdered with new higher label).<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Mike <br />

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>What is the cost for PSA to examine each card you submit for possible grade bump?<br /><br /><br /><br />It depends on the card. <br /><br /><br />The fee is charged weather the card bumps or not.<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>The cost for a Review is the same as the cost for Grading, and as Steve said, is charged regardless of whether or not the review results in a higher grade being assigned.<br /><br />The cost for Grading depends on which service level you select: the higher the service level, the faster estimated turnaround time you receive. However, as the declared value of the card you are submitting increases, so does the minimum service level you are required to select, so because of this, more valuable cards are more expensive to have graded or reviewed.<br /><br />The current PSA Grading prices are:<br /><br />Premium $250 (Same Day) -- min level required for $10,000+ card<br />Walk-Through $100 (Same Day) -- min level required for $5,000 - $9,999 card<br />Super Express $60 (2 Business Days) -- min level required for $2,000 - $4,999 card<br />Express $35 (5 Business Days) -- min level required for $500 - $1,999 card<br />Regular $15 (10 Business Days) -- min level required for under $500 card<br />Modern Memorabilia Cards $10 (35 Business Days) -- maximum value $500<br /><br />They also have less expensive Bulk Service pricing for larger orders of cards valued at under $100.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>If there's no risk for a lowered grade, then the whole thing is a sham which results only in artifically-inflated grades.<br /><br />What happens if they find an altered card? Simply not bump it and send it back in its 8 slab?

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>jim yea i thought it was in a gai4.5 holder also. u'd paid a premium price for it since it looked alot better than a 4...i still say it's a 5. some goudey 5s i've seen had more rounding corners or soiling.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Altered cards are ignored as are cards which are graded too high. Both get sent back to the submitter unchanged. And yes the entire concept is a farce and at best is nothing more than a chance to squeeze more revenue out of the market and at worst illustrates how useless PSA really is.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>What happens if they find an altered card? Simply not bump it and send it back in its 8 slab?<br /><br /><br /> According to Joe "if a grader finds an altered card PSA will stand by its guarantee" And it does not have to be in an 8 slab to qualify ALL cards sent in qualify. <br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>So Steve are you suggesting that PSA, upon finding an altered card during a review, automatically offers to buy back the card at prevailing market prices?

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jeff<br /><br />All I am saying is what Joe said to me, how they pay off I have no idea.<br /><br /><br />He did not mention that in his email to me.<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Steve, what do you think is the under/over on cards found to have been altered on review -- and this then communicated to their owners? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Zero.<br /><br /><br />Steve