M116 McQuillan-- Heck of a deal for someone!

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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>This card has been going for 2 or 3 times this much in recent auctions, in the same or lesser condition. Somebody got a heck of a deal. Not me <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />It was at $26 until a few seconds before the end. Seller may have been sweating bullets. <br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320255938148&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=011" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320255938148&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=011</a>

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Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>It went lower because it's way off-center and looks like there might be a mark in the left border.

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Posted By: <b>Brian McQueen</b><p>Wow...only three bidders were willing to go above $25! The card was listed in the proper catagory with a solid title as well. I guess it really does only take two bidders to drive up the price of a card. This is one of those auctions where the winner may be a bit disappointed too. He's happy to have the card but was probably beginning to think he was going to get it for a lot less that what he'll end up paying...

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>I was the high bidder at $26 the whole 7 days until the last 30 seconds, still was runner up. I thought I might get a steal <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Oh well.<br /><br />If I didnt put my $1111.11 bid on the first day, it would have gone for $875 or so. I tried something new, no snipe just a good bid on the first day, it didnt work, but got me excited until the last 30 seconds <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> It would have been something if the other 2 guys didnt bid, I would have had it for $26.<br /><br />I have one already, but this one was much nicer.

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>i don't know anything about this set ... so please fill me in. What makes this card so special? Is it a rarity?<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>are 2 players with team changes. McQuillan and McConnell were traded near the end of season so Sporting Life produced new cards with new teams witch are tough to find.<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/SquareframeRamly/M116lewlipset.jpg">?t=1212586811<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/SquareframeRamly/a21m116vcbc-1.jpg">?t=1212586995

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Mark - Thanks for posting Lew's article!<br /><br />So, if I'm reading it correctly, here is the rundown of what we know on M116s (please correct any mistakes):<br /><br />3 different backs were printed and with the exception of series 3, all were printed with blue ink. <br />Type 1 - "When you think of" <br />Type 2 - "If you want"<br />Type 3 - "Over 300 Subjects"<br /><br />There is some unclarity about how the tpye 3 backs were distributed, although there seems to be consensus that their printing and distribution was done after the first 18 series.<br /><br />Series 1: Blue and pastel backgrounds - blue more difficult; type 1, 2 or 3 backs<br />Series 2: Blue and pastel backgrounds - pastel more difficult; only type 1 or 2 backs<br />Series 3: Only type 1 backs; printed with blue or black ink<br />Series 4-18: type 1, 2 or 3 backs<br />Series 19-24: only type 3 backs<br /><br />Points for discussion:<br />1) Where the McConnell and McQuillan variations only available with the Type 3 back (does anyone have one with a different back, or a type 3 back without the team change)? If so, are they really any more scarce then any other Type 3 back?<br />2) Were all 216 cards re-issued with type 3 backs?<br />3) Lew states as matter of fact that the pastels are tougher then the blues in series 2.<br />4) Is there a correlation between the blue/pastel background versions found in the first 2 series and the different types of backs?<br /><br /><br />Edited for corrections.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I have the McQuillan variation with a blank back but have had absolutely zero luck finding a McConnell variation <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Question 1: Absolutely<br />Question 2: No<br />Question 3: I agree with Lew

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/SquareframeRamly/a22m116vcbc.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x198/SquareframeRamly/a23m116vcbc.jpg">?t=1212590542

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Bob - thanks for the feedback - question #1 had 2 parts - when you say absolutely, are you saying that you have seen those players with 300 series backs that don't have the team change? I have not and would be interested in seeeing them.<br /><br />Mark - thanks for the remainder of the article. I will update my post to reflect Lew's claim about the last 6 series being more difficult.

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>a Net 54 member was going to right a book about the M116 Sporting Life set.<br /><br />Was it you Tim?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I don't think it was a "book" that was going to be written about M116 but an article...which I don't remember if it was written or not, yet <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Do you guys think it's worth starting a "master set" spreadsheet for M116s? I'll volunteer to create it if you think it's helpful.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Actually Tim and I were going to write an article together but alas, life got in the way. I sent Tim all the info I had accumulated (articles, surveys from board members, scans, etc.) but assume Tim is as busy as I am and hasn't had a chance to do much with it. <br />It is a very neglected set and one which is slowly beginning to increase in value. I look for this set to become very popular with collectors in the future, especially those who have completed the 205 and 206 sets and are looking for something to collect other than caramels.<br />As far as variations go, I can relate this now since I have completed the set (other than 1 variation), the most overlooked variation price-wise in the set are those cards printed with both blue and black backs. For many years it was assumed that the black backs were more valuable. In fact most collectors still believe this, but the info I acquired shows the opposite to be true, that the blue backs are much more difficult and should be the one with the premium. Remember when I refer to blue backs, I do NOT mean the blue backgrounds on the front, I mean the backs of the cards printed in blue ink as opposed to black. Why they are so much tougher is anyone's guess...

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>yea, your right Leon. Now i remember...<br /><br /><br /><br />Matt...i think PSA registry has a master list. Anyone can start a registry set for free and PSA has both a "Basic" and "Master" set list. But you are welcome to do it if it helps collectors keep track.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Mark - I don't believe PSAs list differentiates the 3 different back types.

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>you are correct. now i see...<br /><br /><br />yes, that would be very helpful!!!<br /><br />Thanks

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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>there are actually 4 different back types. Those 3 in this link and the first back you see comes in Blue and Black.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.oldcardboard.com/m/m116/m116.asp?cardsetID=973" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.oldcardboard.com/m/m116/m116.asp?cardsetID=973</a>

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>It sounds like Bob may already have this as he mentions "survey results."<br /><br />Bob - can you share the results?

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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Bob and I were (are?) planning a collaborative article on the set, to update and correct Lew's pioneering work. I have collected a good bit of info from Bob, from Scott Brockelman and other experts on the set. <br /><br />Then I got involved co-writing the M101-5/4 issue that's coming out in the next issue of Old Cardboard. One card-related article at a time is about as much as I can handle (I have a job, although I do get summers off <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>). <br /><br />But I still want to get back into it-- this summer if possible, with Bob or, if he is too busy, maybe someone else. <br /><br />So let's treat this as an exploratory step toward a survey of some kind. In another thread (maybe next week) I'll send out a request for people to report on their M116 holdings, and formulate some of the key questions I think we need to investigate, and ask for questions that have occurred to others to ask. That way, instead of doing it piecemeal, we can do it a little more systematically. <br /><br />In the meantime-- <br /><br />Matt, your summary was quite good, but let me make a couple of clarifications [my comments in brackets]:<br />____________________________________<br /><br />Series 1: Blue and pastel backgrounds - blue more difficult [YES]<br />Series 2: Blue and pastel backgrounds - pastel more difficult [YES]<br />Series 3: printed with blue or black ink (on backs) [my belief is that the blue backs are more difficult, contrary to some assumptions]<br /><br />Series 4-18: no variations [NOT QUITE: SEE NOTE BELOW]<br /><br />Series 19-24: more difficult [FOUND WITH "300 Subjects" Backs only, which you are calling Type 3] <br />____________________________________<br /><br />NOTE<br />[SERIES 1-18 are most commonly seen with one of two backs. But cards with Type 3 "300 Subjects backs" have been seen in some of these series, most notably Series 1, and also a few others] <br /><br />The questions you ask are important:<br /><br />Were all 288 cards re-issued with type 3 backs? [I AGREE WITH BOB HERE-- IT SEEMS VERY UNLIKELY THAT ALL 18 EARLY SERIES WERE ISSUED WITH THE "300 SUBJECTS" BACK OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN MORE OF THEM. I HAVE BEEN WATCHING FOR BACK ANOMALIES FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, AND THE ONES I'VE SEEN FALL INTO VERY DEFINITE PATTERNS. THEY SHOW UP IN SERIES 1 MOST OFTEN BY FAR, NEVER IN SERIES 2 OR 3, IN A FEW OTHERS ABOVE 3 AND BELOW 18. BUT NOT ACROSS THE BOARD]<br /><br />were the McConnell and McQuillan variations only available with the Type 3 back [I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THIS TOO-- WILL ASK IN THE SURVEY-- RIGHT NOW I SEE NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY EXIST WITH BACKS OTHER THAN THE TYPE 3] <br /><br />If so, are they really any more scarce then any other Type 3 back? <br />[THEY MAY NOT BE ANY MORE SCARCE THAN THE TYPE 3 BACKS IN THE LOWER SERIES. SINCE ALL SERIES 19-24 CARDS HAVE THIS BACK, THOSE CARDS ARE MORE PLENTIFUL THAN THE MCCONNELL, MCQUILLAN (AND BATES AND SEYMOUR) VARIATIONS. AND THE TYPE 3 BACKS IN SERIES 1 ARE SEEN MORE OFTEN. BUT CARDS IN SERIES 4-18 THAT HAVE TYPE 3 BACKS MAY WELL HAVE COME FROM THE SAME PRINTING AS THE RARE VARIATIONS, AND MAY BE JUST AS RARE.]<br /><br />More to come soon, as soon as the M101 article is put to bed!<br /><br />Tim<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>The Old Cardboard graphic on M116 backs which was linked earlier in this thread has some flawed info:<br /><br />Here's a quick clarification:<br /><br />"When You Think of..." back: <br />appears in black in series 3 only, but it appears in blue in series 1-18<br /><br />"If you want" back<br />Appears (in blue) in series 1-18, but not in series 19-24<br /><br />"300 Subjects" back<br />Appears (in blue) on all Series 19-24 cards, with reasonable frequency on Series 1 cards, and on a few other series <br /><br />_______________________________<br /><br />Also, as Scott B. helped me to determine, the assignment of cards to series that Lew did in the article reprinted in this thread, while basically accurate, has a few errors in it. If you count you'll discover that one of the series has something like 16 names attached to it, another has only 8; and a few other problems.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Tim - great stuff! thanks!

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>From the same seller. Seems a little steep...<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/6gr36a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/6gr36a</a>

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Posted By: <b>Neal</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />I certainly agree for an Authentic graded!!!!

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Another example of an M116 HOFer shooting up in price, or just an aberration? I wonder if the myth of the black back caused an increase in price? Hmmmm....