Who is the one player who most deserves to be in the HOF?

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>You can only pick one:<br /><br />Is it:<br />1) Jack Glasscock<br />2) Bill Dahlen<br />3) Ed Reulbach<br />4) Ron Santo<br />5) Jim Kaat<br />6) Milt Pappas<br />7) Pete Rose<br />8) Tony Oliva<br />9) Bill Buckner<br />10) Tommy John<br />11) Vada Pinson<br />12) Bert Blyleven<br />13) Curt Flood<br />14) Jack Morris<br />15) Carl Mays<br /><br />I know Joe Jackson is going to be the favorite, but OTHER THAN Joe Jax, who would you pick?

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Will White. Hank O'Day.

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p>If based solely on the way he played the game, obviously I have to go with Pete..<br />But based on his character and exta-curriculars, I'll split my vote between Santo and Tony O.<br />How's that for getting around "One Only" Bob...

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Wish Glasscock and O'Day would be inducted. I have two Glasscock autographs and the only O'Day signed ball I've ever seen. My reasons are selfish and entirely financially-driven. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Danny Grimes</b><p>Blyleven

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Posted By: <b>Tony</b><p>Pete Rose...... Dumb as a box of rocks but deserves to be in.<br /><br />Tony

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BILL DAHLEN<br /><br />However, don't expect the current crop of dudes on the HOF selection committee to ever select<br /> anyone on your list.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Pete Rose is the obvious choice and then Lefty O'Doul, although neither one is presently eligible.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>This thread sounds far too similar to one we participated in a few months ago. Again, I'll agree with Phil that O'Doul really needs to be enshrined. It's a crime that the gates are presently locked to a man who did so much good for his sport.

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Posted By: <b>Geno</b><p>No doubt about it - Ron Santo!<br /><br />His numbers are as good as Brooks Robinson - it's a crime he's not in there next to Ernie, Billy, and Fergie...<br /><br />Take Care,<br />Geno<br />

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Although I am partial to Tony O. and Blyleven, if I had just one vote it would be for Curt Flood. An All-Star centerfielder who at age 32 sacrificed everything for principle. He only had 35 bats for the rest of his career although he had HOF numbers before his decision.<br />

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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><font color=blue>Rose</font><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>write-in vote for luis tiant. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>Frank "Lefty" O'Doul<br /><br />Started off as Left Handed Pitcher for SF of the PCL. Stayed close to home and played many season in PCL which many considered the 3rd Major League.<br /><br />Injured his arm, then came back and became a great hitter (similar to Joe Wood, Babe Ruth, Rick Ankiel).<br /><br />Best season in MLB<br />1929 .398 ave, 254 hits, 32 HRs, 122 RBIs (considered one of the best seasons of all time)<br />1930 .383<br />1932 .368<br /><br />MLB lifetime .349 ave<br /><br />4 different MLB season with more Homeruns than Strikeouts (very very tough)<br /><br />Retired to the PCL to become a successful manager of San Francisco from 1937-51 and is considered the most successful manager in PCL history.<br /><br />O'Doul was also instrumental in spreading baseball's popularity in Japan, serving as the sport's goodwill ambassador before and after World War II. The Tokyo Giants, sometimes considered "Japan's Baseball Team," were named by him in 1935 in honor of his longtime association with the New York Giants.<br /><br />Probably the most famous and well liked player from San Francisco. The drawbridge only 200 feet behind ATT Park in San Francisco is named the Lefty O'Doul Bridge. Owned the very popular Lefty O'Doul's Restaurant and Cocktail Lounge.<br /><br />Elected into the Bay Area Hall of Fame in 1981, and the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame in 2002 <br />

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Hear, hear. Wouldn't mind visiting his plauqe in Cooperstown sometime down the road. I have a single-signed ball which I wouldn't sell even if he was to be inducted!

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>No doubt... <br /><br />Pitcher: <b>Tony Mullane</b> (why isn't this guy already in the Hall?)<br />Hitter: <b>Stovey or O'Doul</b><br /><br />Edited to add... 2nd pitcher choice <b>Bob Caruthers</b> (I have heard the argument in the past that he doesn't qualify as he only played 9 years--THIS IS UNTRUE-he pitched for 9 years and then played a 10th (only 14 games) as an outfielder in 1893, so with his hitting he played for 10 years and would thus be eligible)

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>However, he too doesn't stand a chance......As, I alluded to, in my earlier post on this thread......<br /><br />"Don't expect the current crop of dudes on the HOF selection committee to ever select anyone on <br />this list."<br /><br />Based on the past few years Veteran's (or lack of them, e.g....Gil Hodges) that have been inducted<br /> into the HOF (e.g....Mazeroski, etc.). There is no rhyme or reason in their selection process. <br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Yeah, let's not get started on Hodges and Martin. What a travesty. And I agree about The Apollo of the Box.

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Posted By: <b>J. McMurry</b><p>What do the powers that be have against Billy Martin?<br /><br /> Bill James called him "the best manager not already in the HOF"

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>if you're going to argue lefty o'doul should be in then you can't ignore babe herman either.

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Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>Santo, based on character and how he played in his era. The total package.<br /><br />Kmac

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>4) Ron Santo

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Herman vs. O'Doul is not a fair argument. Perhaps from a statistical standpoint, but Lefty should be in for more than one reason. Herman's poor defensive skills are legendary.

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Posted By: <b>Patrick McHugh</b><p>I like Jack Morris. Is there one player on the list that did more for his team than Jack? Pete Rose but not on ballot yet! I have always looked at hall of fame as pick player as your first choice and then build a team around him. Any way the stats are all there for Jack and just check out his postseason. In fact he was the winning pitcher in the best world series game ever played in the best world series ever played!

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>Bob Caruthers, followed by George Van Haltren and Carl Mays.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>If you take Santo, you have to take Rice no?<br /><br />Obviously Rose.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>&lt;&lt;If you take Santo, you have to take Rice no?&gt;&gt;<br /><br />No thanks, I'm on Atkins.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Cooperstown<br />

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>whats the other reason o'doul should be in besides almost batting 400? sure he pitched, but he wasn't a good pitcher. herman was just as good a hitter over the same short period of time as o'doul was.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Go to SABR's biograhical website and enjoy a fascinating read. You'll understand then.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Who is the one player who most deserves to be in the HOF?<br /><br />Babe Ruth.<br /><br />Wasn't that the question? And isn't that as interesting a question as what one player who is NOT in the HOF deserves to be in the HOF?<br /><br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> to see signed pre-war card galleries, articles, my blog, my collection and more!

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Well, at least O'Doul is in the Japanese HOF. If I was made emperor of baseball for a day and all things I said went. I would....<br /><br />1.) Eliminate the unbalanced schedule<br />2.) Set a generous salary cap with an accompanying floor<br />3.) Would automatically induct Blyleven, O'Doul, O'Neil and Travis into the HOF<br />4.) Set up a Nineteenth Century HOF commision with recommendations to induct one per yer for the next five years.<br />

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Posted By: <b>ali_lapoint</b><p>i dont think he meets the HOF standard, but for a guy who didnt start his career until he was 30, ken williams put up some great numbers.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>I love idea #4. I like half of idea #3 (O'Neil and O'Doul--and you could twist my arm to agree with inducting the Dutchman). Could care less about #1. Baseball died fifty years ago. And I hate the usage of the word "generous" in #2! "Respectable" would be my choice of verbiage in that instance.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Lefty O'Doul.<br /><br />Period. It's a shame he is not in the Hall.

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Posted By: <b>Andrew Saboley</b><p>Pete Rose, unless he bet against his own team.

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Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>I just hope that someone in the world sticks to the rules once. Once they make the acception for Pete then why note McGuire, why not Clemmens, and anyone else that ever cheated or gambled on the game.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Man, if they put McGuire in, it would surely be the Eve of Destruction.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jodi, now THAT was a good one. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Glad a few of you have a good laugh once in a while! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p><a href="http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/frankleftyodoulcard" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/frankleftyodoulcard</a><br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I'd create a hall of shame where all the despicable, cheating, juicing, etc. players would be "enshrined" as a lesson for future players and kids. Some automatic induction criteria and some proposed names for the museum areas holding them:<br /><br />1. Felony conviction (McLain's Cell)<br />2. Admitted cheater or bettor on baseball (The Rose Garden)<br />3. Admitted use of illegal or banned substances (Canseco's Power Alley)<br />4. Beat/assaulted spouse <br />5. DUI conviction (Girardi Way)<br />6. Positive test for banned substance (The Palmiero Wing)<br />7. Substance abuse (Parker Center)<br />8. Getting caught with an underaged girl (Clemens Playground)<br />9. Getting caught with a road apple/having a long term mistress (Boggs Boardroom)<br />10. Getting caught in a public sex act with a trannie (The Dave Stewart Wing). <br /><br />And FWIW, I am one of those who would not allow Joe Jackson into the HOF. He took the money and conspired to throw the series (whether he was too proud or too stupid to go through with it is another matter). Yes, he was a rube and probably pretty dumb but that's no excuse. He deserves to be an example to the world of what should happen to cheaters. <br /><br />Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>If you overlook his fielding, Pete Browning.

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>pete rose

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Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>People love Dummy Hoy because he was deaf, but they ridicule Browning for his poor fielding (which was not that bad and was not even below average) for the same reason. He suffered from a disability which left him deaf. He could not hear the crack of the bat and was left to only his sight for judging the ball. He should be cut a little slack on that end given his physical limitations.<br /><br />Rhys

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Posted By: <b>Rawn Hill</b><p>How about Carrigan as a manager? Lefty, should already be there.<br /><br />Rawn

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Posted By: <b>Steve Dawson</b><p>Bert Blyleven!<br /><br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>He's not on your list, but my vote for the best player not in the HOF (and Bill James' choice, as well) is Minnie Minoso ...

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Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>Blyleven

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Posted By: <b>paul</b><p>Sam Leever.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Don Newcombe told me a great story about Minoso. While they were all in spring training in Fl the black players had to eat at segregated restaurants while off their teams' facilities. There wasn't a lot of choice so they usually ended up at the same place. Minoso liked the chicken there and the others would take turns distracting him and taking pieces off his plate. Finally, one day Minoso got his plate, spit on each piece and said in a mixture of Spanish and English, in essence, let's see you SOBs take my chicken now! <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Perhaps James has always held Minoso in high regard but for many years he has consistently said the most deserving player not in the Hall is Ron Santo. With all his gold gloves, Santo was the leader in RBIs among all major league players not an outfielder or first basemen and I believe is also in the top 5 in home runs for his era with close to 400.

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Posted By: <b>Tim</b><p>I would vote O'Doul.<br /><br />Boxingcardman -<br /><br />4. Beat/assaulted spouse (Bobby Cox Flat)<br /><br />Edited to add:<br /><br />I would love to say Rose but he broke "The Rule" and bet on baseball. This called every game he was involved in at that time into question whether player or manager and compromised the integrity of the game on the whole. Shame on him. I really wish I could, but I can never forgive him. What a great player, what tenacious effort every single play, all wasted for a quick dollar.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Tim, Rose never bet against the Reds. Doesn't that make a difference?

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Posted By: <b>Tim</b><p>"Tim, Rose never bet against the Reds. Doesn't that make a difference?"<br /><br />He denied for years he bet on baseball at all. Then he said he did but not against the Reds. If someone could show me that he never bet against his team while he was in control it might make a difference.<br /><br />But logic tells me several things:<br /><br />#1 If a guy could lie to me about one thing (betting on baseball) he could lie to me about something else (betting against the Reds.)<br /><br />#2 When a gambler of Rose's sickness is losing they chase or look for some quick easy way to fix their situation. Fixing a game he has control over is too easy an out for someone in the hole. <br />"It's only one game out of 162, I get back to even, the team gets back on track, we all win."<br /><br />Edited for spelling.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Jim Kaat

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Tim, fair point, but Rose was never in need of cash -- and that is the type of bettor most likely to bet against their team.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>. DUI conviction (Girardi Way)<br /><br /><br />Do you mean leyritz?<br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />nevermind, yes I see he has one too.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Tim</b><p>Jeff-<br /><br />Chasing and getting back to even for Rose wouldn't be about the money. It would be about the same thing that drove him to be such a great baseball player. Pride.<br /><br />He felt he could look at the teams in question and devise more often than not based on his great baseball knowledge who was going to win or lose. When that didn't happen it hurt his ego far more than his wallet.<br /><br />Edited to add:<br /><br />Pride will drive a man to do far worse things than money.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Tim, keep in mind that the people that took Rose's bets -- and ratted him out -- never claimed he bet against his teams.

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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>But even if you're only betting on your own team to win, as a manager you can still make decisions that are detrimental the team's success over the course of a season. For example, if you find out your best hitter tweaked his hamstring in the first inning you'd normally consider taking him out for precautionary reasons, but if you have a sizable bet riding on that game, you might take the chance of leaving him in there. Same thing with a closer whose thrown in three straight games and whose arm is a little sore. Usually that'd be a situation where you'd consider trotting out your setup man for a rare save opportunity, but not if you have a bet riding on the game.

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Caruthers and Mullane have already been mentioned so here's a few position players from the 19th century:<br /><br /><b>Stovey</b> (already mentioned)<br /><b>Van Haltren</b><br /><b>Browning</b> or <b>Orr</b> (both hit over .340 lifetime - but both were pretty much one dimensional) <br /><b>Tip O'Neil</b> and the incredible season of 1887 - led league with .435 average, also led league in hits, doubles, triples, HRs and RBIs. The next year his BA dropped 100 points but his .335 average was still good enough for a second consecutive batting title.

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Posted By: <b>Misunderestimated (Brian H.)</b><p>Not to be a stickler but...<br />Hank O'Day was a terrible player -- he only gets in as a Umpire.<br />Babe Herman is already in the HOF (I'm pretty sure)<br /><br />That said I'd go with (from different time periods) the following:<br /><br />1870s-80s - Deacon White (Will White's brother btw)<br /> (Bobby Caruthers too but his career was short, mid-1880's-early 1890's) I could go on about this era. . . Stovey, Gore, Mullane etc.<br /><br />1890s-1900s - Bill Dahlen<br /><br />1910's-20s - Carl Mays (will never happen)<br /><br />1930's Seriously over-represented -- O'Doul probably belongs but his playing alone doesn't do it given the hyper-inflated stats of the era and relatively short career (ie not big enough career numbers)<br /><br />1940's-50s I like Minnie Minoso but again that's based on more than his major league numbers -- I don't think that those numbers standing alone make him that big an ommission. Btw: Curt Flood may belong but his on the field prowess isn't the reason.<br /><br />1960's-70s - Ron Santo (the most under-represented position, a great hitter and a great fielder)<br /><br />1970s-80s - Used to be Gossage (Rice will likely get in but I'd prefer Blyleven)<br /><br />More recent - Tim Raines (unfair to compare him w/ Henderson -- if Henderson was the standard there would be less than 60 players in now).<br /><br />Barry Larkin is coming on the ballot next year and I think he won't do well but he's among the best ever at his position -- a really complete player, too.<br />As to the really tough ones --- Rose and the current performance enhancement candidates, Palmeiro, McGwire and later Bonds and Clemens eventually baseball will have to make its peace with them. I suppose that Sammy Sosa will be treated similarly purely based on suspicion (yes I think he used) Suspicion really is a poor basis for excluding a player with those numbers that supposedly helped rescue the game in 1998)

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Posted By: <b>CN</b><p>How can Joe Torre not be on the list of the 15 candidates. He is the only player to hit in 4 double plays in one game. He still blames Felix Millan for being on base 4 times in that game.CN

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Posted By: <b>Wil Jordan</b><p>Gil Hodges

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>I think it is hugely suboptimal for a manager to bet <i>for</i> his team. When Rose had money riding on his team, it could lead him to make short-term decisions that were damaging to his team in the long run. A perfect example would be keeping a star pitcher in past the point of normal wear-and-tear, so that he wins the game, but damages that pitcher's durability down the season.<br /><br />Marc

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Brian I agree with many of your picks, however, Babe Herman is on the outside looking in while Billy Herman is the "Herman" that has been enshrined.<br />-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Sorry, I thought it was a given that everybody would realize I was speaking of O'Day's career as an umpire when I "nominated" him. After all, Walt Alston's lone at-bat (and subsequent strikeout) wasn't what got him up those lofty Cooperstown steps.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Marc, fair point. But betting against your team obviously has the potential for much more mischief.

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>Take a look at Al Oliver's stats when you get the chance. Lifetime avg .303 with over 2700 hits and 200 homers.

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Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>Rose. He was a HOFer before he bet on baseball. Yes, that's a lame argument, but we'll hear it repeatedly for the steroid era players...<br /><br />Also, pardon my ignorance, but why do so many people feel Blyleven should get in, but there's no mention of Tommy John. They have about the same numbers as far as wins, ERA, and innings pitched, yet John has 19 less loses. I didn't see either pitch, so maybe I'm missing something? Otherwise, seems like they either both deserve it or they both don't...

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Posted By: <b>Misunderestimated</b><p>I think the "betting on your team" issue with Rose involved the allegation that he either bet on his team or did not bet on the game and that it called into question the games he did not bet and might cause him to make decisions differently in those games (use of relief pitchers, resting players etc) Also did he bet more on some games than others -- that could conceivably have the same result. <br /><br />-- I guess I confused the Hermans (sorry)<br /><br />-- Jodi- I apologize, I was interpreting the whole thread literally, as being about the one <u>Player</u> that deserve to be in the HOF.<br /><br />As to non-players or people who played but belong in largely for other reasons I would add Marvin Miller and Buck O'Neill to the list. They should stop gradually inducting every single Commissioner of Baseball in chronological order. They were okay until Kuhn and the only other 2 that I really like -- Giamatti and Vincent were unfortunately not in charge very long. I would also kind of like them to induct Bill James as some sort of a contributor or maybe with the sportswriters. (?)

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Posted By: <b>uhohursetbaby</b><p>Lee Smith.

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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>Right or wrong... I can't help but blame Pete Rose for Giamatti's untimely passing.<br /><br />For that reason alone - I hope to never see Rose in the HOF while he is alive.<br />To be honest... I hope to never see Rose in the HoF while I'm alive.<br /><br />So.... after Charlie Hussle and I pass away.... then go ahead and let the sleeze gambler (who probably bet against his own team - are you serious in thinking otherwise Jeff? - ) into the Hall.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>I liked the Barry Larkin post by Brian. I too think he will struggle to get enshrined, although he is so deserving of HOF honors... <br /><br />Larkin was the very best at his position for many years, played his entire career for one team (during the peak of free agency) and won the MVP as well as a World Series. <br /><br />And all of this while playing for a mediocre team, for most of his career. A real leader in the clubhouse, and the team captain as well. Really hope he gets in, but doubt that it will be easy.

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>The biggest injustice of all BUCK O'NEILL

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>Very underrated 19th century pitcher Jim McCormick<br /><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mccorji01.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mccorji01.shtml</a>

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Misunderestimated--OK, I see your point. Perhaps I should have stayed on track with the "player" aspect.<br /><br />I certainly agree with having O'Neil (Buck) in C'Town. I've always liked the idea of incorporating a special "Ambassadors/Game Shapers" wing. O'Neil would get in right away, and that would put O'Doul in a second way. Certain executives such as Larry MacPhail and Veeck would have looked better being inducted in such a capacity as well.<br /><br />Hats off to whoever spoke their mind about the problem of electing useless commissioners. Bulkeley, Kuhn, etc. Agreed.