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04-15-2008, 10:21 AM
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>At least I am post 750!<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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04-17-2008, 02:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>It appears if they now sell on ebay as well. I am a longtime packer collector/dealer and continue to see the numerous Favre, Don Hutson & Nitschke items that pass through their auctions. Here is their link:<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/62m9h8" target="_new">http://tinyurl.com/62m9h8</a>

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04-17-2008, 03:29 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Looks as though Ebay removed the questionable item. Between this and the "Florida Fakes" thread, it's good to see that they are doing some things right...

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04-17-2008, 09:02 PM
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I can't possibly read all of this, could someone sum this up for me briefly so I know who the bad guys are? thanks Dan.

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04-18-2008, 11:36 AM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>You should read it all. It took me almost an entire morning a few weeks back. It is full of hobby history and information you can't get in a short post. Even if you have traveled all over the country for shows, think you know a certain niche or signature, have met everyone you think possible....everyday there is new information I learn from someone else and it pieces things together.

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04-18-2008, 11:49 AM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Dan, I agree that the entire thread is worthy of being carefully read. But if time is an issue (for you and others here), here is a brief recap...<br /><br />Much of the thread concerns Coach's Corner (who has been auctioning bogus and highly questionable autographed pieces for years). Discussion has revolved around how they are able to keep doing this without being shut down, who is providing these consignments, and who is actually buying them.<br /><br />The other main culprits are Sports Collectors Digest (SCD) for enabling Coach's Corner all these years, and Christopher Morales (who is the head authenticator for Coach's Corner).<br /><br />Much anger has been directed to SCD for turning a blind eye, and accepting the ad revenue (despite the obvious fraud).<br /><br />Regarding Morales, most have questioned not only his abilities as an authenticator, but his self-proclaimed credentials (which have been scrutinized, and exposed as being highly enhanced).<br /><br />There is so much more... in the spirit of keeping it brief, those are some of the main points.

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04-18-2008, 12:41 PM
Posted By: <b>Pscolgrafs</b><p>Above is correct, this is a rather interesting thread with many fine turns and quite educational. Read thirty threads a day and you will get through it no time. I did that with Tolstoy's "War and Peace" and if I had skimmed to the end, I would have been disappointed (and lost) as I would not understand how it came to be that Moscow would be rebuilt and following the death of Elana, Pierre would live happily ever after with Natasha. <br /><br />The items on eBay that probably originated from Coach's (as there is no mention) have been removed, but what's interesting is deep in their feedback is a pocket of negatives where one seller sent some 6-8 items to Global and JSA and they failed them all. <br /><br />As far as the current auction goes, Morales authenticated Shoeless Joe Jackson baseball (currently at $800), John Wilkes Booth, Josh Gibson Single Signed, just about any 19th Century Baseball cut signature, Jimmie Foxx signed jersey and of course Sitting Bull and Geronimo. What amazes me is that this auction in Coach's far exceeds the quality merchandise in ANY of the catalogs weighing down my table at this moment. I mean Rob (Robert Edward) has a few incredibly rare Josh Gibson items (that famous signed postcard, a contract) but do they have a single signed baseball? <br /><br />How about pants? <br /><br />Kudos to Rob. A jawdropping auction.<br /><br />

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04-18-2008, 04:02 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>I think the Mantle/Maris/Paige/Robinson signed, very clean white baseball that Coaches has now might be one of the top 15-20 signed pieces I have ever seen. The signatures are perfect, right on top of each other and the same pen, just amazing. The collector who put that ball together is probably hoping for a $20,000 return on all the time he spent traveling/writing to get it done. I hope the consigner speaks out if the ball doesn't realize a "fair" price. It is graded a 7.5 but my opinion, although not worth much as I never worked for the FBI or searched ancient tombs....would grade this a perfect 10.<br /><a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=85462" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=85462</a>

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04-18-2008, 05:05 PM
Posted By: <b>J.McMurry</b><p>Hmmmm, Lets see, Robinson died in 1972, Paige in 1982,Maris in 85 and the Mick in 95,.. yet the ball looks like it was signed at the same time with the same pen and is a bright white. Hmmmmmm. Yeah ok, no red flags here.lol<br /><br />

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04-18-2008, 06:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>The simple fact they will openly bash JSA, PSA etc. and then allow those items into their auctions and put "JSA" in the title shows how little integrity they have as a company. If I had a problem with those companies and would send emails and post things on websites how they are not qualified, why would I allow their items in my auction? I want someone to explain that from Coaches Corner? If you have your own team of authenticating greats, why are you not using their services to verify the PSA, JSA items, which you have openly discussed as not being qualified to do that kind of work?<br /><br />My SCD subscription finally expired last week and I had my "new" sales rep call (seems like I get a new one every year) who had very little knowledge of the advertisers already in the magazine ask me to advertise this year...not gonna happen.

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04-18-2008, 07:07 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>There was an e mail going around earlier during this thread's popularity.<br />It named four names as being the big suppliers of CC.<br />I won't print them here as I have no proof and I don't know if the accusation is true.<br />If the accusation is true then one of the names would shock me and many others in the hobby for sure. The other three names were no surprise.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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04-23-2008, 06:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Fudd</b><p>I'm not sure if you guys caught this article? Apparently, many of you that have posted here were mentioned or added to the story so I thought I would post it for everyone to see.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/04/19/2008-04-19_beatles_authenticator_at_heart_of_memora.html?p age=0" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/04/19/2008-04-19_beatles_authenticator_at_heart_of_memora.html?p age=0</a><br />

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04-23-2008, 06:42 PM
Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>It looks like Morales himself has posted there. What other parasite would post in his defense?<br /><br />Also, why haven't we seen an outpouring of "forensic" authenticators? If this type of skill was needed, wouldn't every authentication company hire one? And what exactly is done "forensically" to determine if an autograph is real that PSA/DNA or JSA, or Richard Simon or Jodi Birkholm wouldn't do? I'm sure all of them know that even if a Babe Ruth signature looked perfect, with old fountain pen ink, but was signed on laser copier paper, that it's a fake. <br /><br />Where does the real forensic community stand on this issue? Afterall, it is one of their dearest members being vilified in a national newspaper. My bet is they don't care because 1) it's not an issue that comes up enough, and 2) Morales is so far down the forensic world food chain that Jeffery Deaver could probably discredit him in court in 3 seconds.<br /><br />

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04-23-2008, 08:04 PM
Posted By: <b>CS Bolay</b><p>There is at least one Forensic examiner who has tried to defend Morales; I suspect he has little knowledge of the CCSA situation however.<br /><br />From the Brill Report:<br /><br />"I read your article regarding Chris Morales and Don Frangipani. I find your contumelius attitude about him and other Forensic Documents Examiners to be quite offensive. I have known Mr. Frangipani and Mr. Morales for years and they have never been found unqualified by a court. Famous signatures are no different than anybody else's signatures. The methods of reviewing them are the same. No one is wrong 1100 times, the amount of times I am told Mr. (James) Spence has disagreed with Mr. Frangipani. It is more likely Mr. Spence may be mistaken in HIS opinions."<br /><br />Robert J. Phillips<br /><br />Forensic Document Examiner<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bobbrillreport.com/2008/04/20/index.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.bobbrillreport.com/2008/04/20/index.html</a> (bottom)<br /><br />Hogwash. And what of 'the Donald?' Didn't he say himself he was 'fooled.' The FBI has gobs of his COAs on file.<br /><br />~If anyone is desperately bored, there is a related thread on ebay collectibles board where msyelf and other boardies shared thoughts on the Morales issue...<br /><br /><a href="http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000649552&tstart=0&mod=1208890948877" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000649552&tstart=0&mod=1208890948877</a>

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04-23-2008, 08:13 PM
Posted By: <b>Josh</b><p>All of this is a real eye opener to a lot of people.

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04-23-2008, 08:14 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>If Mr Phillips really did write that letter, he does not know how to spell<br />contumelius. If you are going to use those words, then people usually spell them properly. It is contumelious.<br />ps. There is a separate thread on Net54 about the Daily News story already.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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04-24-2008, 01:27 AM
Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>However that word is spelled, I have never heard of it before (and I have read enough to last me a lifetime). Way to pull out the Roget's in a feeble attempt to make yourself credible! Use the spell check next time!

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04-25-2008, 12:59 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>An article in the New York times is a big deal. Someone knows someone and got the word out. That is what this forum was meant to do. Now that article will pop in google searches...which is how I found this site and reference. It is only a matter of time before someone is going down.<br /><br />On another note, I found the quote from Lee at CC that there are certainly more qualified people to do the work of Morales a very interesting one, truly they would rather fly under the radar then put these pieces in a major auction house.<br /><br />Perhaps CC knows that their time is up and in an attempt to get as much as they can before closing up they are throwing all of this stuff into the market just to see what they can get away with. That would be truly sad in my opinion.

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04-30-2008, 08:01 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>The Satchel Paige, Maris, Mantle & Jackie Robinson got a whopping $2100....I am sure the consigner is furious and wants a full explanation.

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05-02-2008, 11:25 AM
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I'm sure that consignor is far from furious.<br /><br />I think it's a big deal (the article) if something good comes from this. But their last auction concluded last weekened (typical heavily discounted rarities) and their new auction is up today. <br /><br />They sold a Joe Jackson ball authenticated by Morales last month for $7777 and guess what? Another one this month! A really nice one this time! As well as a Beatles signed baseball, Marilyn Monroe signed baseball and ANOTHER Lou Gehrig signed jersey. <br /><br />DJ

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05-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>What I really like about the new CC auction is there are very few Morales pieces. Now if we can go after STAT like we did Morales we might be able to get CC to hire a legitimate authenticator. Of course that will mean very few if any items will be for sale.

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05-02-2008, 12:46 PM
Posted By: <b>Brad L.</b><p>Whew! I got through about 50 posts or so and had to quit. This is a VERY interesting read here, and I will most definately finish reading all of the posts (probably next month, lol), and doing some research on all of the parties and books mentioned. <br /><br />One sad thing that results from this type of fraud (aside from the usual perception of an "uneducated buyer")is that the items that are sold, more than likely, keep recirculating by other crooks. Take one forged auto'd baseball as an example. Unless these scams get shut down, it really turns into much more than one sale. That same ball could generate hundreds of thousands of dollars in many sales over the course of it's journey through the hands of scam artists. <br /><br />I honestly find some of the things I've read (I am just learing of this "operation bullpen," and some of the current scam auction houses now) are just plain sickening. For someone to knowingly scam people out of money in any industry is intolerable in my opinion. It takes a real "tortured soul" to knowingly steal this potentially large amount of money from people. And to continue to do so as "business as usual" is disgusting to me.

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05-02-2008, 02:10 PM
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Shelly, I disagree. This about the same amount as usual in regards to items authenticated by Morales. Usually 30-40 and when I pop in Morales, 30 items come up. Check out the 200 or so by Stat though!<br /><br />STAT: <a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=STAT" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=STAT</a><br /><br />I found some new favorites! Amelia Earhart and Charles Lindbergh signed baseball! James Dean signed baseball! A Softball signed by comedians like Buster Keaton and Abbott and Costello! Jesse Burkett signed straw hat! And of course all my favorite 19th century Baseball cuts like J.J McGinnity and Dan Brouthers. <br /><br />It's about several things, but if Morales (and STAT) can get passed the HBO Real Sports show, the pummeling here on the board (as well as other boards) and the NY Daily News...they truly are bullet proof and it's about new Government eyes and SCD doing something. <br /><br />I would give about anything to see their consignor list. <br /><br />DJ<br /><br />

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05-02-2008, 02:52 PM
Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Sorry, you are correct. I guess we just have to keep on pushing SCD to stop the madness.

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05-02-2008, 03:10 PM
Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>STAT and Morales "flipping" on CCA, or vice versa when action is finally taken. <br /><br />To paraphrase B.I.G. "All the money they stacked was the money for bail".

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05-02-2008, 04:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Of all the ideas floating around in this crazy atmosphere, the truth, for those with nothing to fear, is the easiest, most beautiful thing to fall in love with. Those with hidden agendas should seek shelter under the nearest rock that will have them.

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05-02-2008, 04:41 PM
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I am perplexed by your cryptic message Jodi. <br /><br />Are there agendas here in place on this thread? <br /><br />DJ

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05-02-2008, 04:49 PM
Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>I don't feel it's cryptic at all. No, the second part of the statement is not aimed at this thread, but rather anyone who carries the burdensome reputation of profiting through deception. The whole statement can be used as a guideline in how to conduct oneself, don't you think?

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05-07-2008, 08:00 AM
Posted By: <b>Josh Siegel</b><p>There is a stat authetic Mel Ott single signed ball on eBay right now, #130220658921 that appears to be the real deal. Do they get lucky every once and a while? Is this one of the rare items that is worth going after with a STAT COA?

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05-07-2008, 08:44 AM
Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's bogus. As are all the other balls the seller is trying to get rid of with the Stat COA's. I'm surprised Ebay hasn't pulled these, though it's only been about 12 hours.<br /><br />I wouldn't touch anything that is accompanied by a STAT COA. STAT = CRAP

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05-07-2008, 10:19 AM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Eric's right... it's a fake, as are all 6 of his offerings. Granted, the Ott looks a bit closer than his McGraw, Cobb and Waner (which are all preposterous). I bet these balls all disappear from Ebay before the weekend.

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05-07-2008, 10:26 AM
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Wanted to add that I have to be out all day, or I would write to Ebay about this bogus seller, and the fact that STAT is not an authorized authenticator.<br /><br />If anyone reading this thread has time today, to contact Ebay about these 6 forged balls, it will surely serve to clean things up and protect some less savvy bidders/collectors.

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05-07-2008, 10:38 AM
Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>They are all crap. Bet they get taken down.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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05-07-2008, 10:47 AM
Posted By: <b>DD</b><p><a href="http://www.tedsilary.com/tedtaylor.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.tedsilary.com/tedtaylor.htm</a><br /><br />Read the part about net54. Taylor talks about the attacks on Morales, and how people on this small “hobby” internet blog makes him sick.<br /><br />If he wants to be made sick, he should look back at his failures at Scoreboard and Fleer, and how someone that has survived what he has been through can find it in his soul to justify ripping people off.

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05-07-2008, 11:43 AM
Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>STAT balls all gone.

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05-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>DD- that write up on Ted's site is so wrong it's not even funny. I imagine once his lawyers take a hard look at the legalities (Section 230 of Title 47 of the United States Code (47 USC § 230) he is saying he knows he will find out he is wrong. For the record I don't think there are any totally anonymous posts in this thread and if there are then they will be taken down. That is a forum rule. I have absolutely no worry about his rubbish talking with respect to my liabilities.....so please continue but make sure we put names by our posts. I do agree that folks should not be allowed to hide behind a screen name when making accusations....best regards<br /><br />edited as I said section 203 and it's 230

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05-07-2008, 01:48 PM
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>"court qualified" is a misleading phrase. When you try a case with a technical or scientific issue, or another matter of expertise that the ordinary Joe Citizen would not be expected to know, a party to the case can retain an expert to testify on that point. The experts are NOT neutrals and are NOT "tested" by the court. What they really are rhymes with "Moors"; they never see the inside of a court-room unless they are going to testify favorably for the party who hired them and you know that in advance from discovery. <br /><br />Now, when you actually go to court, you present your "Moor" and the other side has the right to cross-examine the "Moor" on his or her qualifications (called voir dire-ing the witness). If there are no objections at all, the "Moor" will be able to testify without challenge from the judge. If the "Moor" is questioned but appears to have the degrees, course work or whatever else that would lead one to believe he has some knowledge in the subject field, the judge will let him testify, regardless of whether he is the absolute worst expert in the world. Getting to testify is all it means when a "Moor" claims he was "qualified" as an expert in court. The judge doesn't test the "Moor" to see what he knows. It is up to the other side to cross-examine the "Moor" and prove to the judge and jury that the guy is a clown. I have no doubt that if an authenticator who was clobbered on TV tried to testify in court again, a knowledgeable cross-examining attorney would be able to bring in the authenticator's errors to impeach him but he would not be able to exclude the expert entirely on the sole grounds that he is really, really bad at his job. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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05-07-2008, 02:05 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>It's Moops!

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05-07-2008, 02:05 PM
Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>In the current CC auction, they have a Daniel Boone cut, Ben Franklin, another Dan Brouthers, and the most laughable Lajoie sig I have ever seen.<br /><br />However, on a positive note, I believe I will be sending my cut sigs of Adam and Eve, the aliens that crashed in Roswell, along with the person that modelled the Piltdown Man skull to STAT for their authentication. <br /><br />In addition, for the benefit of Mr. Taylor, this is my real name, even if it sounds made up.

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05-07-2008, 02:19 PM
Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Quoting David: "However, on a positive note, I believe I will be sending my cut sigs of Adam and Eve, the aliens that crashed in Roswell, along with the person that modelled the Piltdown Man skull to STAT for their authentication."<br /><br />Maybe we could group these together in a lot with my John the Baptist's shower curtains consignment. <br />

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05-07-2008, 04:43 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>Jodi - how come you get all the good items for sale?<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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05-07-2008, 04:51 PM
Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Divine intervention.

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05-07-2008, 08:35 PM
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Boxingcardman - what do you know about legal court??

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05-07-2008, 08:35 PM
Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Oh Mr. Taylor! Mr. Morales! Will you please sue me first?!? <br /><br />Didn't Mr. Morales' client, American Royal Arts, sue Frank Caiazzo? Looks like it blew up in their face (See NY Daily News article cited above)<br /><br />I'd wager that by the time this plays out, Frank will have a chateau in the Loire Valley.<br /><br />And let me add that I personally wouldn't turn your material over with a stick...<br /><br />Anyway, if you guys sue me, then I can counter-sue YOU for authenticating what I (and many others) believe is some of the worst material ever to come to market. As a matter of fact, I've never seen ANYTHING either of you has authenticated that I would ever offer in any of my auctions. If your material is indeed "bad", and if it was passed as result of incompetent authentication and gross negligence, despite warnings made to you to the contrary, and despite your implied warranty of merchantability, that may explain why the prices realized for that material are so weak. <br /><br />Continuing that thought, those weak prices, well documented in your auction sales results, would make a great claim for having:<br /><br />A/ DRIVEN POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS AWAY FROM THE INDUSTRY THAT SUPPORTS ME, AND;<br />B/ LOWERED THE PRICES THAT AUTHENTIC MATERIAL ACHIEVES IN THE MARKETPLACE.<br /><br />So, go ahead and sue me. Sue everyone. Get your books in order. Be prepared for a countersuit and discovery. Bring your checkbooks and a pen - because in the end, I can assure you that it will be YOU who shall be writing a settlement check. <br /><br />Or maybe you just just find another job...<br /><br />Yours philographically,<br /><br />BASIL A. "BILL" PANAGOPULOS (Get the spelling right, please)<br />PRESIDENT, ALEXANDER AUTOGRAPHS, INC.<br />860 CANAL ST, 2ND FL.<br />STAMFORD, CT 06902<br /><br />HOURS FOR SERVICE OF LEGAL PAPERS: 10AM-5PM EST

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05-07-2008, 08:39 PM
Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Sorry guys - I've been absent, but every few weeks I post the following:<br /><br />Mr. Morales: Your website states, verbatim:<br /><br />QUOTE<br /><br />"An Open Challenge<br /><br />As noted herein, I will meet anyone in a public forum to review and assess my work efforts. Since private communications are often cherry picked to bolster a point of view, at times misdirecting the facts, it is my position that any meetings and communications be conduct in the open. If anyone desires to contact me concerning an open forum, please do not hesitate to call, email or otherwise contact me at anytime".<br /><br />UNQUOTE<br /><br /><br />Mr. Morales, I hereby challenge you to appear, before a group of your peers in the autograph authentication trade and the international press, to:<br /><br />a.) Discuss your "forensic" methods of authentication, and your education and qualifications, using exemplars or otherwise;<br /><br />b.) Describe in detail other criteria you used to authenticate the thousands of various autographs for which you have issued certificates;<br /><br />c.) explain your relationships, if any, with the various consignors, auction houses, galleries, etc. for whom you authenticate, and;<br /><br />d.) assess your work efforts, ie: how have your authentications been received in the autograph market, as a whole.<br /><br />If you wish to limit the discussion to your "work efforts" alone, I would expect your peers would still meet with you, depending on the agenda. <br /><br />I will pay your airfare and hotel room expenses for your attendance at such a forum in the New York area, for a meeting within the next 60 days. As stated above, I expect you would be asked to respond to inquiries from your peers, that is, knowledgeable, recognized dealers of the same material which you have authenticated. Should the location not be convenient for you, I'm sure we can arrange a meeting in Falls Church. Mr. Shelly Jaffe has already graciously agreed to attend, as has Mr. Frank Caiazzo. <br /><br />I assume that this email will reach you, since I do not have your emali address. If anyone posting to this site can confirm delivery to Mr. Morales, I would be much obliged.<br /><br />B. Panagopulos / Alexander Autographs, Inc.<br /><br />PS This message has also been sent directly to Mr. Morales several times...BP

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05-07-2008, 08:55 PM
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Priceless! I hope Taylor Ted covers this one!!!!

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05-08-2008, 05:04 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>This actually offends me, not only as a Christian, but that they would use as their detail of how this was obtained.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=90816" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=90816</a>

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05-08-2008, 05:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Don't be too offended, Nick. It's not as if the story is true. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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05-08-2008, 05:12 PM
Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>Nicely played Bill!<br /><br />That was a great read. Thank you.

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05-08-2008, 05:31 PM
Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Don't be offended by the Diana ball - my opinion it was signed by Sarah Schwartz of Bayonne and her manicurist, Diana Dingle of Union City. I think they might have been at the homeless shelter having gotten down on their luck...Worst Diana I've ever seen.<br /><br />PS Appreciate the compliments - it's just my job.

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05-08-2008, 05:32 PM
Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>800...stay tuned!

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05-08-2008, 05:51 PM
Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>Well the offense is 2 fold....the fact they would get signatures at a homeless shelter, as Diana was one of the most giving and humane people in the world....she was not perfect, but she truly was helping people.<br /><br />The 2nd is that they put that in their auction to give it further proof, or provenance if you will. I would like to see a letter from the consignor on that....<br /><br />...actually 3...if the piece is not genuine...they used someone's good name, and reputation for helping people, in an attempt to better their own financial position.<br /><br />Is it more of a crime to state things such as where it was obtained, time, date, etc if it is proven to be untrue?<br /><br />While they may not go to jail....they certainly will have some questions to answer at "Those certain gates".

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05-08-2008, 08:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>And of course the homeless person just happened to have a nice white baseball at the time of the visit of Diana and Sarah.<br />What is the over/under on the number of bids this baby gets???<br /><br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

Archive
05-08-2008, 09:33 PM
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Members of the Royal Family do not give autographs! This is a strict policy that people who meet the Royals have to understand and a rule to abide by. Have you ever seen signatures of the Queen Mother, Prince Andrew or Prince Harry?<br /><br />Immediatley following the tragic death of Princess Diana in 1997, out from nowhere surfaced LARGE quantities of Princess Diana autographs on everything from photos to index cards to a number of signed baseballs. Before her death, none of this saw the light of day. <br /><br />I remember watching a documentary last year to honor the ten year anniversary of the tragic passing and there was this story told that Princess Diana was at this homeless shelter (or a charitable function) and one of the people who worked with Diana asked for a signature. She looked around and noted that she is not allowed to do so, but asked if she could shield away the Royal security, she would quickly sign the autograph. <br /><br />Diana was a generous person and many of her hand signed thank you notes and letters have come to light. As well as her Holiday cards and a few photos. But knowing what we know about the difficulties of even getting within a block of Royalty when they touch down (security?), is it feasible that when she leaves a place, she goes down the row to sign a bunch of signatures outside...say Letterman like a movie star? <br /><br />Wouldn't you love to talk to that consignor and get more information from them?<br /><br />DJ<br />

Archive
05-10-2008, 09:33 PM
Posted By: <b>NickM</b><p>While I will never get back the time I spent reading his pitiful whining, misstatements of the law, defense of himself and his fellow crooks, and empty threats, one good thing has come of it. I now know what that piece of human waste looks like.<br /><br />BTW, I hope Morales and/or Taylor actually does sue. One of the first things any defendant would seek in discovery (assuming the case doesn't get kicked out before discovery on an anti-SLAPP motion, with the plaintiffs ordered to pay the defendants' attorneys fees) is the complete consignment records of the plaintiffs. Imagine the fun when those come out - especially when the next step is to discover the asset acquisition records of the consignors. <br /><br />A Morales/Taylor libel suit would end up like the famous Oscar Wilde libel suit.

thetruthisoutthere
10-17-2011, 11:05 PM
Deleted doe to the sensitivity of the subject matter.

Bob Lemke
10-18-2011, 05:01 PM
Let me ask you a question, Christopher . . .

Do you have authorization from SCD to reprint its copyrighted content?

CobbvLajoie1910
10-18-2011, 05:36 PM
+ Beating a dead horse, on the wrong side of the board.

No one is buying Chris Morales cert'd stuff on Net54....NO ONE.

Sigh.

thetruthisoutthere
10-19-2011, 08:10 AM
Let me ask you a question, Christopher . . .

Do you have authorization from SCD to reprint its copyrighted content?

Mr. Lemke, being that I no longer had that issue in my possession, I wrote to the editor of SCD and he sent me a copy of that article and Mr. Tom Bartsch of Sports Collectors Digest gave Steve Cyrkin permission to use the entire article on Mr. Cyrkin's AutographMagazine website. Thank you for asking.

Mr. Bartsch also sent me the Drew Max article. I want to thank Mr. Bartsch publicly for sending me that article.

So as not to ruffle any feathers over HERE I will remove my post.

Leon
07-31-2012, 10:37 PM
Here is the longest thread ever in the history of Net54baseball. Sit back and enjoy....since we have an autograph section I will move it there....

jgmp123
07-31-2012, 10:50 PM
Does anyone happen to know which page the invisible man "Chris Morales" makes his appearance? :eek:

sports-rings
08-01-2012, 03:28 PM
Bob Lemke wrote:

Let me ask you a question, Christopher . . .Do you have authorization from SCD to reprint its copyrighted content?

Bob, I'm just curious, when you were working for SCD, did you ask management or ownership to stop accepting Coach's Corner advertisements? I would really like to hear your stance and what steps you personally took to prevent Coach's Corner from ripping off collectors. Did you have a holier-than-thou attitude with management and ownership too? Or just people like Chris because you have no guts to do the right thing and stand up for what's important? I seem to remember that Coach's Corner ran advertisements in SCD for years in spite of collectors and other auction houses calling out SCD on the disgusting relationship SCD had with Coach's Corner.

Bob Lemke
08-03-2012, 03:14 PM
Refresh my memory, Michael . . . when did Coach's Corner start advertising in SCD?

RichardSimon
08-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Refresh my memory, Michael . . . when did Coach's Corner start advertising in SCD?

Bob,
Around 1920 I think :D.
I have not read the magazine in many, many years and they were a regular back when I read it,,,

Bob Lemke
08-03-2012, 03:59 PM
As usual, Richard, you are a fountain of useful information.

thetruthisoutthere
08-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Bob,
Around 1920 I think :D.
I have not read the magazine in many, many years and they were a regular back when I read it,,,

Sounds about right, Richard.

Now we have full-page ads from CSC Collectibles to look forward to. A New Era of advertising begins.....

shelly
08-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Bob as the man at the top of SCD one would think you would have archives to look that up. I can tell you that I know Coaches Corner advertised from at least 1997 to well past 2003. I remember a good guy named Rocky at SCD being so upset with the garbage they where selling that he left you and went to another part of Krause. I also remember you not allowing me to defend myself when UDA wrote an op ed that was filled with lies. Your big thing was, so long as they have someone authenticating their stuff you where free of blame, just like the three wise monkeys. You saw no evil.
Tracer Code became a very short term authenticator for Coaches Corner but since the authenticators there (myself included) thought virtually everything from Coaches Corner was garbage that Coaches soon dropped us and moved on to others. And you still let Coaches go on and on, despite all the complaints, despite all the protests SCD kept cashing all their checks. SCD was an enabler, a big time enabler.
Why Bob? Why?
Unless you had blinders on you had to know the truth.

RichardSimon
08-03-2012, 05:49 PM
As usual, Richard, you are a fountain of useful information.

Coming from someone who oversaw the publication that helped facilitate an organization that stole millions of dollars from collectors, I don't even know how to respond to you. Maybe I can ask you how many times did you help law enforcement eliminate the trash in the hobby?
Maybe I can help you with other useful info :D.

thetruthisoutthere
08-03-2012, 06:11 PM
Bob as the man at the top of SCD one would think you would have archives to look that up. I can tell you that I know Coaches Corner advertised from at least 1997 to well past 2003. I remember a good guy named Rocky at SCD being so upset with the garbage they where selling that he left you and went to another part of Krause. I also remember you not allowing me to defend myself when UDA wrote an op ed that was filled with lies. Your big thing was, so long as they have someone authenticating their stuff you where free of blame, just like the three wise monkeys. You saw no evil.
Tracer Code became a very short term authenticator for Coaches Corner but since the authenticators there (myself included) thought virtually everything from Coaches Corner was garbage that Coaches soon dropped us and moved on to others. And you still let Coaches go on and on, despite all the complaints, despite all the protests SCD kept cashing all their checks. SCD was an enabler, a big time enabler.
Why Bob? Why?
Unless you had blinders on you had to know the truth.

Well written, Shelly.

I believe SCD accepted advertising money from Coach's Corner until 2009. It's a stain that SCD will never be able to wipe clean and the millions of dollars of crap that will infect the hobby forever.

sports-rings
08-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Refresh my memory, Michael . . . when did Coach's Corner start advertising in SCD?

Bob, I don't know you and I was not sure when I posted my question if you had the spine (or integrity) to answer my question. I never thought you would just respond with a silly question and not an answer.

Now can you please share with this group what role you played in doing the right thing for the hobby while Coach's Corner was allowed to advertise for several years in your publication?

thanks,

RichardSimon
08-03-2012, 10:36 PM
Bob, I don't know you and I was not sure when I posted my question if you had the spine (or integrity) to answer my question. I never thought you would just respond with a silly question and not an answer.

Now can you please share with this group what role you played in doing the right thing for the hobby while Coach's Corner was allowed to advertise for several years in your publication?

thanks,

+1

Deertick
08-04-2012, 10:18 AM
Yep, regardless of when this crap is stopped, it's effects will be felt for YEARS!

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/photopanel.cgi?listingid=1458452&category=0&zip=33545&kwd=

Wymers Auction
08-04-2012, 10:24 AM
Yep, regardless of when this crap is stopped, it's effects will be felt for YEARS!

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/photopanel.cgi?listingid=1458452&category=0&zip=33545&kwd=

Another Florida auction surprising!!!!

Bob Lemke
08-04-2012, 10:58 AM
Michael, that wasn't a silly question. I have no access to SCD "archives" and couldn't possibly discuss the subject without some timeline reference.

Many of you (Shelley, etc.) are under the mistaken impression that I was at the helm of SCD from the time we bought it in 1981. The fact is, I left as publisher of the sports division to take on a corporate role in acquisition and development sometime in the early- to mid-1990s. At that point my involvement with SCD was strictly as an occasional column contributor.

I believe I spelled all that out when this thread was "live" the first time. Feel free to look it up; I'm not so inclined.

I can say unequivocally that when I WAS publisher of SCD, Coaches Corner (if indeed they were advertising then) was in compliance with our customer service requirements, which at that time were much stricter than those that came into effect after Krause Publications was sold to a private equity investment firm. Under KP, an advertiser could be banned (and I banned dozens of them) if they failed to satisfy even a single reader complaint based on the "rules" that were published every issue.

shelly
08-04-2012, 11:38 AM
Bob, if not you then who was in charge at the time cc was big in your magazine?

RichardSimon
08-04-2012, 12:10 PM
Bob - so the private equity firm (Bain Capital perhaps?) (sorry I could not resist) was responsible for the quality of advertisers in the magazine?
So Bob, are you telling us though you were not personally not involved with SCD at the time of CC advertising, you had zero knowledge of what they were doing. No office grumblings going on? No staffers complaining to you at anytime about CC? No office gossip floating around, that derided the offerings of CC, that you were privy to? You were in corporate and never heard one word about the crimes being committed on the pages of SCD? Is that what you are telling us?

Bob Lemke
08-04-2012, 01:40 PM
Shelley,

Again, specific dates would be necessary to determine who was the publisher of SCD at any point in time. And it is the publisher, not the editor or the ad manager who makes the ultimate determination as to who advertises.

Those who succeeded me as publisher included Steve Ellingboe, Hugh McAloon, Kevin Isaacson, Jeff Pozorski (I believe) and Dean Listle, who finally pulled CC's ad privileges.

I reiterate, after the company was sold, the customer service department was gelded, then gutted, and finally eliminated.

And yes, Richard, I am telling you that after I left the helm of SCD, I had no knowledge of CC or any other problem advertiser. I don't recall ever hearing about any hobby concerns with Coaches Corner until they surfaced on this forum as the boggie man. That was after I had left the employ the F+W in 2006.

RichardSimon
08-04-2012, 02:50 PM
I reiterate, after the company was sold, the customer service department was gelded, then gutted, and finally eliminated.



And that is what is so great about so many corporations,, public be damned, abetting a criminal enterprise? who cares, let us just keep cashing the checks until we can't.

sports-rings
08-04-2012, 03:36 PM
Bob,

As I understand it, you are currently involved with SCD.

Since it sounds like you took no steps in the past to alert the public to Coach's Corner, what steps and actions are on your agenda to alert the collecting public who read your publication about the crap that Coach's Corner and Chris Morales are still involved in?

Do you have any plans to do investigative journalism on Chris Morales, or Coach's corner going forward? Or will the philosophy at SCD continue to be head-in-the sand and see-no-evil hear-no-evil participation?

Bob Lemke
08-04-2012, 06:27 PM
Michael,

My only "involvement" with SCD is my blanket permission to editor Tom Bartsch to pick up anything he cares to off my blog and reprint it in SCD. I take no remuneration for such use, other than a complimentary subscription.

To suggest that I "investigate" this type of thing now, when I have not been an employee of F+W since 2006, is inane.

RichardSimon
08-04-2012, 06:31 PM
Michael,

My only "involvement" with SCD is my blanket permission to editor Tom Bartsch to pick up anything he cares to off my blog and reprint it in SCD. I take no remuneration for such use, other than a complimentary subscription.

To suggest that I "investigate" this type of thing now, when I have not been an employee of F+W since 2006, is inane.

Tom can have anything he likes from my blog page and I would consider not giving me a subscription to be my payment.

www.richardsimonsports.com/hofauto2.htm

Lots of good stuff on that page.

sports-rings
08-04-2012, 06:44 PM
Bob,

Coach's corner was advertising in 2006 and for years before and after 2006. So you were there when the relationship between SCD and Coaches corner was going strong.

It sounds like you are somewhat involved with SCD in someway, although it is not exactly clear to what extent. I know I have heard your name mentioned in that publication so you must have been working with and communicating with quite a few of SCD's employees.

So, let me ask again: What are you planning to do to help alert readers of scd and new hobbyists about Christopher Morales and Coach's Corner?

How about I answer first: I was constantly writing in the blogs of SCD and calling out TS O'connell for years. Eventually TS O'Connell shut down the feedback section of his blog so I started my own blog on the matter.

I must have been heard since the boys at Coach's Corner tried to intimidate me. I stuck my name out there and had to deal with the possibility of Lee and his associates coming after me.

So instead of channeling your efforts into worrying about whether Christopher had permission to use an article, I wish you would show some effort in helping rid the hobby of these crooks.

I answered my question, now will you?

shelly
08-04-2012, 09:51 PM
Bob, I am really not trying to insult you but if you can please reply to question below I would greatly appreciate it.

Do you remember Ted Taylor of Stat Authentic's? Now better known as "TTA" one of CC's best known experts. Could you or all the other people that you blame not see the conflict of interest between SCD and CC then? At some time in your comments it would be nice if you just admit somewhere along the line you let a lot of this happen.
It also would be nice if you could stop what is happening now. I would think that you still have some say with the people at SCD

travrosty
08-05-2012, 12:53 AM
I think the standing offer of allowing scd to pick up any of his blog posts in return for a free subscription should be rescinded by bob in light of this.

or maybe make a lot of blog posts about what is currently happening in the hobby regarding these organizations that continue to offer this junk and urge scd to pick up those posts?

Bob Lemke
08-05-2012, 09:19 AM
Michael, Now you are simply being obtuse. You are evidently not going to let facts get in the way of your crusade. You're going to have to continue your rants without further participation from me.

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 09:23 AM
Evasive action always occurs on Net54 when the person being questioned cannot answer the questions any longer.

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 10:52 AM
This all started because because Mr. Lemke asked me "Do you have authorization from SCD to reprint its copyrighted content?"

Why would you care, Mr. Lemke?

First of all, I asked Mr. Bartsch if he could send me past articles from SCD containing the interviews SCD had with Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales and Drew Max. I wanted them for a blog I was going to write titled "Christopher L. Morales May 2005 SCD Interview Revisited."

The moderator of the blog received direct permission from Mr. Bartsch to use those articles and Mr. Bartsch emailed those articles to me.

So why would you care?

Why the defensive attitude?

Bob Lemke
08-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Richard,

I'm not hiding. I'm just refusing to play Michael's silly little game and participate in his self-aggrandizing agenda.

I believe I answered, some more than once, all of his questions. It seems to me he is unwilling to accept the facts as I have presented them.

Bob Lemke
08-05-2012, 12:51 PM
Christopher,

That question was posted about two years ago. It was my subtle attempt to point out that while you were so strident in your self-appointed role as hobby savior that you were also engaging in (technically) illegal activity, i.e., copyright violation.

If I seem to be defensive, it's because I feel that I am being unfairly assailed for events in which I had no hand.

I'll be here as long as anybody -- except Michael -- has legitimate questions for me, providing they have not alreay been asked and answered in this interminable thread.

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 01:06 PM
Christopher,

That question was posted about two years ago. It was my subtle attempt to point out that while you were so strident in your self-appointed role as hobby savior that you were also engaging in (technically) illegal activity, i.e., copyright violation.

If I seem to be defensive, it's because I feel that I am being unfairly assailed for events in which I had no hand.

I'll be here as long as anybody -- except Michael -- has legitimate questions for me, providing they have not alreay been asked and answered in this interminable thread.

Mr. Lemke, it is not possible that you posted that question two years ago, because it was only earlier this year (2012) that the Blog Moderator and myself requested prints of those interviews.

Why would you care if I was in copyright violation? Would that affect you, Mr. Lemke?

Are you against, as you put it, my "self-appointed role as hobby savior?" I have never called myself a hobby savior. And I have never profited a penny from the hobby. I am not a dealer, hobby shop owner, etc. I am simply a collector who over eight years ago became fed with the crap and scum that have infected the hobby. Anything wrong with that, Mr. Lemke? Were you ever upset at my bashing of SCD? Not that I give a damn. SCD has earned any bashing they have received from the hobby.

Were you upset that I "Revisited The SCD Interview With Chris Morales?"

Why would you be upset at what I do, Mr. Lemke?

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 01:17 PM
I would also like to state, Mr. Lemke, that it's your right to either like or hate what I do.

I don't do what I do to win any kind of popularity contest. if I didn't have one single supporter of my blogs and videos, I would still do what I do.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 01:22 PM
Why would you care if I was in copyright violation? Would that affect you, Mr. Lemke?Mr. Lemke quite succinctly explained why he cared, Mr. Williams. He found it hypocritical, Mr. Williams, that you, the self-appointed guardian of truth, justice, honesty, and correct hobby behavior, would--even while calling out others--himself be in violation of the law. Or doesn't the law apply to you, Mr. Williams?

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 01:32 PM
Ad infinitum,,,, :D. Let's see how this plays out :D.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 01:37 PM
Gee, Dick. How many times have you announced that I'm on your "ignore" list? Either you're stupid enough to comment on something you haven't read, or you were just lying.

Wymers Auction
08-05-2012, 01:45 PM
Just started humming an old Styx song "Why must you be such an angry young man".

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 01:58 PM
The last person to call me Dick was around 12 years old and I was around 11.
Very mature, Mr Atkatz, very mature indeed.
And yes you were on my ignore list for a long time, but when I returned from my vacation I saw what appeared to be a spirited conversation between you and my good friend DanC. So I admit, I unblocked you to see what was going on. I felt I needed a good laugh then and I knew DanC had the capability to chop you up. Just like Jeff L------- did a long time ago.
And you getting into it with people like Dan and Chris, people who have done tremendous things to help the hobby, is, well dickish.
I think it is time to go and put Mr Atkatz back on block,,, bye David. Not to worry guys, no more bickering.

Ignore List

David Atkatz

Check / Uncheck All

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 02:03 PM
Oooh... Got me, Dick.

Bob Lemke
08-05-2012, 02:17 PM
Christopher,

You've got me there. I see I posted that question in Oct., 2011.

Which brings up a point that is going to remain a constant in this thread. I may be a little vague about dates because I have no resources with which to pin down specifics of my career at Krause/F+W. I'm only relying on my increasingly muddled memories.

Your unauthorized use of copyrighted material did not, and does not, affect me; I was merely pointing out the irony.

To sum up the rest of your questions . . .
Yes, I am upset at the way in which you go about your self-appointed mission. That is, without regard to facts. You earned my enmity when you continually attacked my friend T.S. O'Connell without regard for the fact that as editor, he had no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters. You persisted even when I point that out to you. Your ham-handed personal attacks are now, and were then, unwarranted, yet you blithely persist with complete disregard for the facts.

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 02:30 PM
Bob-
Who specifically had jurisdiction over the CC ads for all those years?
Who approved the CC advertising?
Do you think or know if this person(s) was aware of what they were doing in regards to CC?
Can you speculate about the CSC ads now and why people who contact SCD seem to be getting a complete runaround. One day they are told CSC will be gone and poof a short time later they are back again.
Specific answers would be desirable.

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Christopher,

You've got me there. I see I posted that question in Oct., 2011.

Which brings up a point that is going to remain a constant in this thread. I may be a little vague about dates because I have no resources with which to pin down specifics of my career at Krause/F+W. I'm only relying on my increasingly muddled memories.

Your unauthorized use of copyrighted material did not, and does not, affect me; I was merely pointing out the irony.

To sum up the rest of your questions . . .
Yes, I am upset at the way in which you go about your self-appointed mission. That is, without regard to facts. You earned my enmity when you continually attacked my friend T.S. O'Connell without regard for the fact that as editor, he had no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters. You persisted even when I point that out to you. Your ham-handed personal attacks are now, and were then, unwarranted, yet you blithely persist with complete disregard for the facts.

Bob - I guess the editor may have no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters but would he not have serious influence in the organization? Would he not be involved in crucial policy decisions? Would he not know of CC and what they were doing at the time he was editor? Could he not make an attempt to get involved with the decision making process, that would be involved, in whether to allow CC to continue to advertise.

sports-rings
08-05-2012, 02:36 PM
Michael, Now you are simply being obtuse. You are evidently not going to let facts get in the way of your crusade. You're going to have to continue your rants without further participation from me.

First off, I am thrilled that these posts are not on the SCD website, where editors can pick and choose what messages stay and which go.

So Bob, if you won't respond to my messages anymore, that's fine, I guess you too, will be putting your head in the sand and ignoring the role SCD played in helping Coach's Corner and Morales grow their business while they ripped off collectors in our hobby.

How dare you claim I am being obtuse. I asked you three times to let us know what you planned to do going forward to help the hobby. You continue to avoid the issue, avoid a response, and now your self-proclamation of no longer responding to my posts proves my intuition - You have no backbone and you should be ashamed of your attitude and your role in this mess. You could help but you have decided not too. Well done Bob, well done!

I value the opinion of the contributors here. Do others feel I am on a crusade and have I been obtuse? Have facts been presented and I'm wrong and owe Bob an apology?

earlywynnfan
08-05-2012, 02:57 PM
I've been following this thread and have been staying out of it, but I feel it would help some members know what side some of us are on.

Bob, forgive me if I missed this somewhere in the seemingly endless thread: Have you done anything to stop the flow of fakes coming from CC? If not, do you plan to?

These seem to be the biggest questions posed to you, and to my aging eyes, they seem to be the questions you are trying very hard to avoid. If my interpretation is correct, I'm finding myself to be disappointed (again!) at a well-known and well-respected member of the sports memorabilia hobby.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

keithsky
08-05-2012, 03:45 PM
I have no side in this and just my opinion but I would think the employees current and past of SCD would not want to say anything was wrong with CC and admit it on NET54 even if they knew anything in fear that if the FBI ever takes down CC they would be questioned and involved and don't know if any of them would want that and why would you admit that on NET54. It would be the right thing to do and get the ball rollling if it hasn't yet to get the FBI to see why CC is still in business. I subsrcibed to SCD for 20 years and cancelled my subscription about 4 or 5 years ago when all the CC talk was going around. I refussed to support a magazine at the time that wasn't in the best interest of the collectors. So much negative stuff at the time about CC and no one there did anything. Just sad. I don't know Mr. Lemke so I have no opinion on what he did or didn't do or know. Can't jump on a guy if I don't know him. Just my opinion on this and I don't claim to be smart.

Bob Lemke
08-05-2012, 04:07 PM
Finally, some succinct, thoughtful questions . . .

Bob-
Who specifically had jurisdiction over the CC ads for all those years?
Whomever had the title of publisher.

Who approved the CC advertising?
The ad manager would have had the week-to-week contact with CC or any other advertiser.


Do you think or know if this person(s) was aware of what they were doing in regards to CC?
CC advertised for some years before they went rogue or were suspected of purveying an unusual volume of suspect items. I don't believe any of the ad managers had enough hobby expertise to cull the sheep from the lambs when dealing with hundreds of items in a given ad. I also believe that the people who had that position had enough integrity to raise red flags to the publisher if they suspected wrongdoing.


Can you speculate about the CSC ads now and why people who contact SCD seem to be getting a complete runaround. One day they are told CSC will be gone and poof a short time later they are back again.
I cannot. I have no regular contact with anybody at SCD. I think any perceived "runaround" regarding the current CSC ad is the result of the ad manager having been at the National.

Specific answers would be desirable.
If this isn't specific enough for you, please feel free to elaborate.

Bob Lemke
08-05-2012, 04:13 PM
I've been following this thread and have been staying out of it, but I feel it would help some members know what side some of us are on.

Bob, forgive me if I missed this somewhere in the seemingly endless thread: Have you done anything to stop the flow of fakes coming from CC? If not, do you plan to?

These seem to be the biggest questions posed to you, and to my aging eyes, they seem to be the questions you are trying very hard to avoid. If my interpretation is correct, I'm finding myself to be disappointed (again!) at a well-known and well-respected member of the sports memorabilia hobby.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC." Why in the world would you assume that responsibility should fall on me?

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 04:27 PM
Christopher,

You've got me there. I see I posted that question in Oct., 2011.

Which brings up a point that is going to remain a constant in this thread. I may be a little vague about dates because I have no resources with which to pin down specifics of my career at Krause/F+W. I'm only relying on my increasingly muddled memories.

Your unauthorized use of copyrighted material did not, and does not, affect me; I was merely pointing out the irony.

To sum up the rest of your questions . . .
Yes, I am upset at the way in which you go about your self-appointed mission. That is, without regard to facts. You earned my enmity when you continually attacked my friend T.S. O'Connell without regard for the fact that as editor, he had no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters. You persisted even when I point that out to you. Your ham-handed personal attacks are now, and were then, unwarranted, yet you blithely persist with complete disregard for the facts.

Bob, I can respect your defense for your friend TS O'Connell. I would do the same thing for my friends Richard Simon, Shelly Jaffe and Danny Cariseo.

You can call what I do, and have done, self-appointed, or whatever you want to call it, Bob, that's your right.

Some people do and some people do nothing.

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC." Why in the world would you assume that responsibility should fall on me?

Shouldn't it be the responsibility of all hobbyists, Bob?

packs
08-05-2012, 04:31 PM
Why not just be honest and say if an advertiser can come up with the money to run an ad SCD will print the ad.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 04:36 PM
I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC."Neither do I.

Unless I can think of some scheme that might actually work.

Wait! How about this? I sit in a darkened room, with a light shining on me, and a camcorder focused on my face. I then hold up screenshot after screenshot of CC's forgeries, while repeating over and over "The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots... "

Then I post the video on YouTube.

Coach's Corner, you are going down!

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 04:54 PM
Finally, some succinct, thoughtful questions . . .


If this isn't specific enough for you, please feel free to elaborate.

Some names perhaps, if you do have that info, that is what I meant by specific.

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Why not just be honest and say if an advertiser can come up with the money to run an ad SCD will print the ad.

How sadly true.

scyrkin
08-05-2012, 05:06 PM
Christopher,

You've got me there. I see I posted that question in Oct., 2011.

Which brings up a point that is going to remain a constant in this thread. I may be a little vague about dates because I have no resources with which to pin down specifics of my career at Krause/F+W. I'm only relying on my increasingly muddled memories.

Your unauthorized use of copyrighted material did not, and does not, affect me; I was merely pointing out the irony.

To sum up the rest of your questions . . .
Yes, I am upset at the way in which you go about your self-appointed mission. That is, without regard to facts. You earned my enmity when you continually attacked my friend T.S. O'Connell without regard for the fact that as editor, he had no "jurisdiction" over advertising matters. You persisted even when I point that out to you. Your ham-handed personal attacks are now, and were then, unwarranted, yet you blithely persist with complete disregard for the facts.

Hi Bob,

I'm Steve Cyrkin, the publisher and community manager at AutographMagazine.com. I wanted to let you know that SCD/F&W gave us copies of the Morales interview and others, and permission to publish them, so their use by Chris Williams is authorized.

Steve

earlywynnfan
08-05-2012, 05:09 PM
Neither do I.

Unless I can think of some scheme that might actually work.

Wait! How about this? I sit in a darkened room, with a light shining on me, and a camcorder focused on my face. I then hold up screenshot after screenshot of CC's forgeries, while repeating over and over "The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots. The buyers of this crap are morons and idiots... "

Then I post the video on YouTube.

Coach's Corner, you are going down!

I'm not saying I agree with Chris, and I have no idea if his videos have had any effect. But if his efforts have stopped ONE buyer from purchasing from CC, then his approach seems to have a much better batting average than "I'm going to sit in my house like some High and Mighty Crabass doing absolutely nothing."

Ken

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 05:12 PM
Ken, when a prospective buyer emails or PMs me, or, indeed, posts on the board, asking for an opinion, I've always been happy to provide one.

I'm quite sure--and I know many here would agree--I've prevented many a buyer from being taken.

earlywynnfan
08-05-2012, 05:15 PM
I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. I have no plans to do anything to "stop the flow of fakes coming from CC." Why in the world would you assume that responsibility should fall on me?

Hey, Bob, have you ever heard of Ken Sulik?? Nobody else has either. But many, many people have heard of you. You have a blog and have (or at least had) a column regularly published in "The Voice of the Hobby." I'm sure you've gotten years of pleasure and probably some decent financial renumeration from this hobby. Yet when it comes time to make a stand, point out the bad, help out the newbies, you pass the buck!

Who should the responsibility fall on??

Ken

RichardSimon
08-05-2012, 05:24 PM
But if his efforts have stopped ONE buyer from purchasing from CC, then his approach seems to have a much better batting average than "I'm going to sit in my house like some High and Mighty Crabass doing absolutely nothing."

Ken

+1

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 05:27 PM
Hey, Bob, have you ever heard of Ken Sulik?? Nobody else has either. But many, many people have heard of you. You have a blog and have (or at least had) a column regularly published in "The Voice of the Hobby." I'm sure you've gotten years of pleasure and probably some decent financial renumeration from this hobby. Yet when it comes time to make a stand, point out the bad, help out the newbies, you pass the buck!

Who should the responsibility fall on??

Ken

+2

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 05:41 PM
Ken, when a prospective buyer emails or PMs me, or, indeed, posts on the board, asking for an opinion, I've always been happy to provide one.

I'm quite sure--and I know many here would agree--I've prevented many a buyer from being taken.

Atkatz is correct about that.

As a matter of fact, Atkatz opined freely and frequently on the Frank Prisco thread until that letter from the lawyer arrived, and we never heard from Atkatz again on that thread.

While Leon actually mockingly posted the letter on Net54 which came from Prisco's lawyer, Atkatz was never heard from again. While the other Net54 members continued to rally in support of Leon, and continued to opine about the inventory of Frank Prisco, we didn't read a peep from Atkatz. Big man in the hobby, David, lots of helping hands all around from you.

shelly
08-05-2012, 06:20 PM
Hey, I thought 815 would never be beat. Keep it going guys when it hits a 1000 Leon can start a new thread.:)

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Atkatz is correct about that.

As a matter of fact, Atkatz opined freely and frequently on the Frank Prisco thread until that letter from the lawyer arrived, and we never heard from Atkatz again on that thread.

While Leon actually mockingly posted the letter on Net54 which came from Prisco's lawyer, Atkatz was never heard from again. While the other Net54 members continued to rally in support of Leon, and continued to opine about the inventory of Frank Prisco, we didn't read a peep from Atkatz. Big man in the hobby, David, lots of helping hands all around from you.

You're full of shit, Chris. It's as simple as that. I've helped all who have asked--and never called one an "idiot," or "moron," or "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

And, BTW, prove that I ever received a letter from Prisco's lawyer, or STFU. And find a case--one single case--in which I ever refused to help anyone who asked me.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 06:51 PM
Chris, you are, by far, the biggest hypocrite it has ever been my misfortune to encounter. Helping hands? How many times have you been asked here, to show how Jeter's signature has developed over time?

What did you show?

Nothing.

Have you ever posted a photo when a fellow board member has asked?

Nope.

"I'm not here to educate," you have stated, on many occasions.

So, what are you here for? Just to stir the shit?

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 06:53 PM
You're full of shit, Chris. It's as simple as that. I've helped all who have asked--and never called one an "idiot," or "moron," or "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

And, BTW, prove that I ever received a letter from Prisco's lawyer, or STFU. And find a case--one single case--in which I ever refused to help anyone who asked me.

Thank you, Mr. Atkatz, your inflection speaks the truth.

earlywynnfan
08-05-2012, 06:54 PM
CHILDREN!!! Enough already, you both stir the shit!! Take it outside and let the thread get back to what's important!!

Ken

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 06:56 PM
Thank you, Mr. Atkatz, your inflection speaks the truth.My words speak the truth.

There is no inflection in the written word.

And, again, it's Dr. Atkatz to you. :)

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 06:57 PM
CHILDREN!!! Enough already, you both stir the shit!!And so do you, Ken, so can the "holier than thou" crap.

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 07:09 PM
CHILDREN!!! Enough already, you both stir the shit!! Take it outside and let the thread get back to what's important!!

Ken

I wish we could take it outside, Ken. But at the same time, Ken, I've been asked numerous times not to take the bait, and I have done so out of respect for the Leon and members of Net54, but how much longer do you expect me to tolerate the personal remarks directed at me from Mr. Atkatz?

Just a few days ago, Mr. Atkatz referred to my friend Shelly with his felon comment. It was a comment that was uncalled for and yet not one member here confronted Mr. Atkatz about his felon comment. I was enraged when I read that comment, but again, out of respect for Leon and Net54 members, I held back. Then Richard comes back from vacation, defends Shelly about that comment and is criticized. What kind of crap is that!!! It was okay with the members of Net54 for Mr. Atkatz to make that felon comment about my friend Shelly, but it wasn't okay for Richard to defend Shelly. You have to be kidding me!!!

So we're suppose to tolerate and not take the bait when Atkatz makes a felon comment, but if we defend our friends for being attacked it's wrong??? Seriously?

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 07:11 PM
Shelly is a convicted felon, Mr. Williams. Get used to it.

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 07:22 PM
Shelly is a convicted felon, Mr. Williams. Get used to it.

In the context that you used it, it was uncalled for.

Below is the quote and follow-up comment by Mr. Atkatz.

Originally Posted by shelly View Post
He did not kill, rape or sell drugs to anyone. He did what many of you know. He lied cheated and defrauded people.
Well... I guess he's a saint, then.

Nice to have a felon's take on this, though.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 07:26 PM
It was most certainly appropriate, Mr Williams. Shelly was saying that Bill Mastro's crimes were not that serious. I simply pointed out that this judgement was coming from one who was convicted of those same--or similar--crimes.

"Goes to credibility," as they say in court.

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 07:33 PM
You're full of shit, Chris. It's as simple as that. I've helped all who have asked--and never called one an "idiot," or "moron," or "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

And, BTW, prove that I ever received a letter from Prisco's lawyer, or STFU. And find a case--one single case--in which I ever refused to help anyone who asked me.

Only you or Prisco's lawyer can prove the existence of the letter, David, but some things you just know without having to have proof. It is called circumstantial evidence.

And with your chicken approach to that thread, that is all the circumstantial evidence that I need; that is all the circumstantial evidence that the board needs. Every time I have brought up the letter, not one person has risen to defend you.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 07:41 PM
How can anyone defend me, you idiot? It can only be proven that someone did receive a letter.

Why don't you get in touch with Prisco's lawer, and ask him? I'll tell you why. You don't want to know the answer. It would deny you the only thing you ever accuse me of!

thetruthisoutthere
08-05-2012, 08:00 PM
How can anyone defend me, you idiot? It can only be proven that someone did receive a letter.

Why don't you get in touch with Prisco's lawer, and ask him? I'll tell you why. You don't want to know the answer. It would deny you the only thing you ever accuse me of!

Mr. Atkatz, ever hear of attorney-client privilege?

Do you think Prisco's attorney would actually tell me if SHE wrote a letter for her client?

Who is the idiot?

Apparently someone who never heard of attorney-client privilege.

David Atkatz
08-05-2012, 08:17 PM
Who is the idiot?

Still you, I'm afraid.

Whether or not she wrote a letter has nothing at all to do with attorney-client privilege. In fact she does not even have to disclose for whom a letter was written. (If, in fact, a letter ever was written.)

And, FYI, any letter written to a third party is not subject to attorney-client privilege. Only communications between an attorney and her client are.

Hence the name.

keithsky
08-05-2012, 09:37 PM
David and Chris, Why don't you guys get each others email and fight about whatever it is on there between the two of you and quit dragging everyone down with your bickering. My God move on.

shelly
08-06-2012, 12:18 AM
He did what many of you know. He lied cheated and defrauded people That comment was to other people saying he would get 7 years in prison I still do not think that what he did will get him that long of sentence that is why I said the above comment.
I don't need Richard, Chris or anyone else to defend me. I at least no what I did and what it meant to people that I really care about.. I just find it so difficult to think that you have no idea what a nasty vindictive person you are. I have no idea who made you so bitter but it is truly a shame, I know there are attorneys on here not one of them asked to be addressed as Esquire. My wife had a PhD she never asked to be called Doctor. I think that your students felt the same way that is why they had no respect for you professor .I feel it is really time for you to get a check up from a real Doctor. I know there is something truly wrong with you. You can call me a felon again and again there is not one person on this board that does not know that. You on the other hand will never be called anything but a complete and perfect ass.

David Atkatz
08-06-2012, 02:09 AM
FYI, Shelly, I have never asked to be called "Doctor." My name is David, and I'm perfectly content for all to call me by my name.

But, if some moron here decides, for purely sarcastic purposes, to address me by title, rather than by name, then I prefer he use the correct title.

I worked hard enough to obtain it.

And Shelly, judging my students feelings for me by reading the postings of half-a-dozen--out of the literally thousands I have taught over my career--is simply asinine.

As far as my being a "complete and perfect ass," well, anything worth doing...

shelly
08-06-2012, 10:54 AM
David, once again you fudge the truth. There are a dozen comments about you on the rate your professors website, not six as you say. I am sure you know there are a dozen but I guess half a dozen and a dozen are the same thing to you. 9 out of 12 rate you as a poor teacher and the comments are as negative as anyone can get. "Worst teacher since kindergarten" is just a sample of what the students say. Some students actually hated you. And the majority of teachers at your school only got 6 or 7 comments, so the number of comments you received is high for your school. And your overall score is 1.8 out of 4, as low a score as I saw for your school. You are rated at the bottom of the barrel.
You can now go find another felon in your failed attempts to lift your shattered ego. The "call me Dr Atkatz" is getting old.
Your communication with this felon is done.
Your response to this post will not be answered by me.
And yes, you are so complete and perfect an ass, we agree on that.
And one more thing about the Prisco lawyer letter. You are correct about attorney client privilege not covering the letter. But do you really think that Prisco's lawyer would answer Chris? What hallucination did you dream that up in? I can picture her helping Chris out, yeah, right, not in this lifetime.

Bob Lemke
08-06-2012, 11:07 AM
Hey, Bob, have you ever heard of Ken Sulik?? Nobody else has either. But many, many people have heard of you. You have a blog and have (or at least had) a column regularly published in "The Voice of the Hobby." I'm sure you've gotten years of pleasure and probably some decent financial renumeration from this hobby. Yet when it comes time to make a stand, point out the bad, help out the newbies, you pass the buck!

Who should the responsibility fall on??

Ken

I did my time as "hobby crime fighter" when I was editor and publisher, and even a bit later in a special series circa 2003 about counterfeit 1963 Bazookas, '52 Wheaties, etc., being sold on TV and by Sol Creamer and that "Paoutdoorman" (or some such) guy around Harrisburg.

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.

I had the support of the hobby publishing giants who founded Krause Publications, and access to personnel and monetary resources.

Today I am retired, i.e., without such resources or the inclination to "clean up" the hobby. I don't keep up with hobby "dirt," other than reading about it on this and similar forums. I cannot speak intelligently about current crooks and crookedness. That is not how I choose to spend my time in retirement.

I don't owe "the hobby" anything.

Even Batman retired.

mr2686
08-06-2012, 11:10 AM
Even Batman retired.

Yes, but he kept his eye on Catwoman!;)

slidekellyslide
08-06-2012, 12:16 PM
I did my time as "hobby crime fighter" when I was editor and publisher, and even a bit later in a special series circa 2003 about counterfeit 1963 Bazookas, '52 Wheaties, etc., being sold on TV and by Sol Creamer and that "Paoutdoorman" (or some such) guy around Harrisburg.

Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.

I had the support of the hobby publishing giants who founded Krause Publications, and access to personnel and monetary resources.

Today I am retired, i.e., without such resources or the inclination to "clean up" the hobby. I don't keep up with hobby "dirt," other than reading about it on this and similar forums. I cannot speak intelligently about current crooks and crookedness. That is not how I choose to spend my time in retirement.

I don't owe "the hobby" anything.

Even Batman retired.


Well stated Bob. I'm not sure why the attacks continue on here after you've answered every single question numerous times.

Big Dave
08-06-2012, 12:45 PM
+ 10

David Atkatz
08-06-2012, 01:10 PM
Well stated Bob. I'm not sure why the attacks continue on here after you've answered every single question numerous times.Why? How else can Chris and Dick--and now Shelly--protect the hobby?

David Atkatz
08-06-2012, 01:13 PM
Shelly, do a bit of research. Learn a bit about the concept of "self-selection," especially as it pertains to the accuracy of surveys.

packs
08-06-2012, 04:18 PM
Sit the next few out man. This is getting to be too much.

sports-rings
08-06-2012, 08:39 PM
Even Batman retired.

Bob, I've seen batman. I've admired those in the hobby who fought the fight and continue to do so. Sir, you're no batman.

shelly
08-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.
Bob, can you name some of the people that you said you banned? I think that Robin and the rest of Gotham City would love to know. Correction made.

Mr. Zipper
08-06-2012, 10:37 PM
Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.
Bob, can you name some of the people that you said you banned? I think that Robin and the rest of Metropolis would love to know.

Not to nitpick, but that would be Gotham City, not Metropolis.

:D

Bob Lemke
08-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Through the 1980s and early 1990s, I banned dozens of advertisers at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars of ad revenue.
Bob, can you name some of the people that you said you banned? I think that Robin and the rest of Gotham City would love to know. Correction made.

On the advice of counsel back then, we (almost) never announced when we banned an advertiser . . . he simply disappeared from our pages.

At the risk of getting somebody's name wrong 20 years later, or confusing two similar names, and in the absence of access to the "official list," I'm not going to attempt to do so now.

RichardSimon
08-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Bob,
I am not going to dispute your contention about banning advertisers but I certainly remember the same bad guys advertising for years and years. I would sometimes scream at the ad page because the stuff was so revolting.
And I don't mean just CC.

jgmp123
08-07-2012, 11:31 AM
I posted this in another forum, but thought this may be a good place for it as well, I received a response back from Tom and it sounds like hands are tied up over at SCD...I think that a contact in the Advertising/Sales dept would be best fit to answer the questions many want answered...I have reached out to Tom for a contact in the advertising department......

Thanks for your patience James,
As you might imagine, I heard plenty at the National Convention regarding CSC and its negative impact on SCD. I don't want them running, period, but alas my word is not the be-all, end all for the magazine when it comes to advertising. All of the CSC comments I am handing over all feedback to my ad manager and publisher to insist they are are not featured again. Thank you for your time.

Tom Bartsch
SCD

jgmp123
08-07-2012, 11:37 AM
has anyone reached out to Steve Madson?

Response from Tom:

Couldn't agree more James. Feel free to contact the following:

Steve Madson, ad rep: steve.madson@fwmedia.com

Scott Tappa, publisher: scott.tappa@fwmedia.com

Tom