Has anyone seen a T206 Double OP OLD MILL ??

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Posted By: <b>scott levy</b><p>I know that this card exists.....but has anyone on this board actually held it, or better yet own it? I would love to have the opportunity to pick one up (and yes, I know its not gonna be cheap). Any information to help me?<br /><br />Regards,<br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>The Old Mill overprint cards are just print errors, not a legitimate back variation. <br /><br />The overprint is a Sweet Caporal 150 series Fac.#649 overprint red bar accidentally put on an Old Mill back at the printers. The "double overprint" is because the sheet was flipped and printed 2 times with this Sweet Caporal Fac.#649 bar. Some newbie at the printers got confused or was practicing.<br /><br />I dont own these........<br /><br /><br /><img src=http://members.aol.com/canofprimo/oldmill1overprintb.JPG><br /><br /><img src=http://members.aol.com/canofprimo/oldmill2overprintb.JPG>

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>cool...

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p><br />Has anyone ever seen a graded example?<br /><br /><br />Kevin<br /><br /><br><br>------------------------------<br /><br /><a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I know who owns one, and why on Earth would you have it graded??

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Frank can you email me directly about this? I have seen an overprint that was black, not red which would kill your theory. Dan r337man@yahoo.com

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>The over print I have seen is also Black both the double and single??? <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>Never seen a black one myself. <br /><br />The Greminger one above I believe is owned by a board member, it is also the exact same one pictured in the Lipset Encyclopedia (a B&W photo making the overprint look black). For years I thought they were black overprints too, until I saw a color scan of the overprint.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>At its logical conclusion, this thread needs to go into the archive.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I have seen one ungraded double in black Frank and one lucky board member does have a hart single overprint in black, that card does reside in a PSA holder.....<br /><br />The reds are a new one for me...odly enough the reds above seem to be Brown Old Mills while the black overprints I have seen were on regular Old Mill black printed blacks....

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Here's one black example with one bar.<br />We had a good thread about this a few years ago.<br />I thought it was interesting that the brown and red ink came from the same factory that produced sweet caps and hindus.<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/caramelcard/t206/websize/oldmilloverprintblack.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i also always thought it was black on black...<br /><br />the red overprint makes sense, however (ala sweet caporal)...<br /><br />now that i'm thinking about it, which card had a black overprint? it's odd that it's upside down<br /><br />interesting mystery...<br /><br />calling brian weisner, where are you bud?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>First, there had to have been more of these. Inconceivable that just one or two cards would get that odd print on the back.<br /><br /><br />Second, all T206s came from American Lithography... the cards were then shipped to the various cigarette factories. So all of the inks would have been at once place.

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>You're right Frank.<br />I always forget about that.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hey Robert,<br /><br />Not long ago I read about the creation of American Lithography, which was a combination of several printing businesses, most of which were in New York. That would have been several years before the white border tobacco cards were produced. And before American Litho was acquired by The American Tobacco Company, JB Duke, or his Trust. So it is possible that more than one printing facility printed these cards. I think a few guys here know a right smart about American Lithography's history, maybe they'll chime in.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>I think the informed opinion these days is that American Litho printed all the T206's in one location. The interesting thing about these overprints is that they suggest cards for certain factories may have been printed at the same time, even though the brands might differ. I can certainly see how after a run of Old Mills say, a few sheets remain, a certain color of ink runs dry ans a couple test runs are made on those sheets with new ink or a new component to the back of a card. Why waste stock that you can't insert in packs but is still useful to set up the next press runs.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"I can certainly see how after a run of Old Mills say, a few sheets remain, a certain color of ink runs dry ans a couple test runs are made on those sheets with new ink or a new component to the back of a card. Why waste stock that you can't insert in packs but is still useful to set up the next press runs."<br /><br />Bingo- Dave, that's probably the case...<br /><br />ok guys, off to Mexico, i'll check back in next tuesday.