1876 Louisville Base Ball Company Stock Certificate

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>I think I just made an unbelievable find. The pictures below show a Capital Stock Certificate for the Louisville Base Ball Company. The certificate is dated January 14, 1876. According to the research I have done, the first professional league, the National League was formed with 8 teams in 1876. The Louisville Team was the Grays, and were only in the league for 2 seasons. The greys were kicked out of Baseball in 1877 for gambling and possibly throwing games. Louisville baseball was revieved, under new ownership, I belive, in 1882 as the Louisville Eclipse. <br /><br />I spoke with the Hall of Fame at Cooperstown and they said the Greys were the only team in Louisville in 1876. The certificate was sold to and signed by Joseph Grinstead. Purchasing 250 shares at $100 each. Mr. Grinstead owned 1/6 of the team. The Presidents signature is on the bottom of the certificate, signed, Timothy Brandenberg and the secretary, Calvin C. Bennett, I believe. <br /><br />According to the many different people I have spoken with at Auction Houses, Cooperstown, Historians and Louisville Slugger this is the only known Louisville stock certificate dated 1876. What makes this item so special is that it is from the same year as the formation of the National League. <br /><br />Does anyone have any additional information or recommend anyone who may? According to Cooperstown this is a scarce item but I am courious on an estimated value. If anyone has interest, I am opened to offers. <br /><br />Thanks, any info is greatly appreciated. <br /><br /><center><br /><img src="http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n204/cdventures/42-1.jpg"><br><br /><img src="http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n204/cdventures/43-1.jpg"><br><br /><img src="http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n204/cdventures/44-1.jpg"><br><br /><img src="http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n204/cdventures/45-1.jpg"><br><br /><img src="http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n204/cdventures/46-1.jpg"><br><br /><img src="http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n204/cdventures/47-1.jpg"><br><br /></center>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>By the way, the certificate measures roughly 8 1/4" x 11". And is printed on a thin paper almost like traditional currency paper. Thanks

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>later than 1876........I have a similar certificate to yours......<br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/Stock_FAKE.jpg"><br />not sure much about them but have seen some similar to yours around town here (Louisville) over the years. Don't remember where I got mine. Yours, however, has much better looking signatures than mine...........<br /><br />The certificate below was auctioned 5-6 years ago by Sportscards Plus along with a lot of Honus Wagner Louisville stuff.........unfortunately, I was an underbidder on much of it.........this, I believe, is the REAL 1870's certificate. Just my opinion........I could be wrong.........<br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/Stock_1876-1.jpg">

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>at the signatures of some of the guys on your certificate and just commenting on them.......they don't really look like signatures from 'the day' if you know what I mean........they are more contemporary type signatures. The white cert that I posted has signatures more common with the 1870's. Plus they are clearly fountain pen signatures and the signatures on your (and my) certs look more like ballpoint. I wonder if the certificates were either:<br /><br />(1) re-issued to re-capitalize the team at a later date with the 1876 date being historically based.......<br /><br />OR <br /><br />(2) re-issued as a souveneir type thing for people to put their own names on....<br /><br />Just some hypotheses.........<br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>I think that somebody just filled it in to add value. The ballpoint is definitely a problem as ballpoint pens didn't come into use in the states until late in WWII.<br /><br />Scott

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Before I read Tom's post I was going to say that I have seen this certificate before and don't think it's in any way one of a kind. It's a neat find but perhaps not of the magnitude of a unique item.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Thanks for your info Tom. I have seen a 2-3 of these over the years but I have never seen one dated in the 1800s. Most all I have seen have been dated 1914-1920. Also the other ones I have seen were on a thicker paper or cardboard type paper. The one I have is on some type of linen paper, much like paper currency. What kind of paper is your printed on? Also, it doesn't look like yours was stamped in the lower left circular box, is it. The stamp on any certificate, from the research I have done, is the best way to see if the certificate is original or not. The others I have seen all had a solid green circular box in the lower left with no stamp or markings. Thanks

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Cashews</b><p>the written portions of that certificate don't appear to be period written. as in, i also dont think they are fountain pen which would mean that there is no way it could have been written the day the certificate was produced. likely a souveneir.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>On Chris' certificate, it looks like the month and date are written with one pen, then the year is written with another, bolder. It looks like where the 18 is has been cleaned or erased. I suspect a 19 was under there. <br /><br />If you look at Tom's similar certificate, it has 19 printed where the clean spot and 18 are on Chris' certificate.<br /><br />I think this certificate is not from the 1870s. I'd suspect it is either a souvenir, or maybe slightly more likely left over un-issued certificates from the Louisville Colonels of 1914 or so, where someone has doctored them.<br /><br />That plainer certificate Tom has posted looks more of the style I'd expect in 1876. I have some RR stuff somewhere that looks similar to that plain certificate.<br /><br />Have you illuminated it with black light?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>J.McMurry</b><p>I'm certainly no expert on items like this, but look very closely at the two spots where the date 1876 is written.<br /><br /><br />Nevermind, see Mr. Wakefields response above. ditto.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>Chris --Grinstead Drive is a primary street in Louisville, KY. named for Joseph Grinstead who was Mayor of Louisville from 1907-1909. I think his middle intial was F. rather than L. but I would research the names on the certificate-using census records to see if they were actually residents of Louisville during that period.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Zinn</b><p>I tried to google him and came up empty. I also tried to google Timothy Brandenberry, bury and burg and came up empty.<br /><br />Did they really name people Timothy in the 1800's? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>IMO the certificate is bogus. There is no way an 1876 baseball team would have $150,000 in capital stock. That could have financed the league, and then some.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>but I think my cert is on a thinner kind of linen paper as well. Again, just an observation, but it looks like under the '18' on your cert may have been erased and then the '18' added. In your scan, it is visibly lighter than the surrounding area. To me, it's conceivable that there may be a 'real' certificate like these out there, just don't think it's the ones pictured. There is a card store around town that has one in a frame and if I have time, I'll ask him for a closer look. I'm wondering if it was some type of stadium promo from the 1930's-1950's. Just a hunch..........<br /><br />Scott Gaynor can may be able to elaborate but Leland's sold a similar one to the green ones (which I believe to be souveneir as well) in an auction sometime in the last 3-4 years. It sold in the $500 range if my memory serves me correct. <br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>One other note: regarding Tom's certificate- W.Knebelkamp was the Owner of the Louisville Colonels in 1919.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Keyway</b><p>I have one of these stock certificates also. I have no idea where it is at the moment but as I recall it also was dated 1876. If I can remember where it is I will dig it out. It also was made out in red ink.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>scgaynor</b><p>It is definitely the Colonels and is probably fine, other than somebody filled it out in ballpoint and dated it 1876.<br /><br />Scott

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bob Freedman</b><p><a href="http://www.lelands.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=73313" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.lelands.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=73313</a><br /><br />You can also do a search of Past Auctions from the home page to view others