The T216 series....Mino and Virginia Extra

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>We all know how rare the "Peoples" Tobacco Company T216 cards are but why is it the Mino and Virginia Extra are so darn difficult (besides being regionally distributed?) compared to the others? It took me at least 5 yrs to find a decent Virginia Extra and I don't think I see more than 1-2 fair or better ones for sale every 5 yrs.....Mino's seem to be quite a bit less scarce but still seldom seen. Show a Virginia Extra or Mino if you care too.. (ancillary ad pieces would be neat to see too)....best regards <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1205259995.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/uffda51/frontsbacks/VirginaExtraMcGraw.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/uffda51/frontsbacks/VirginiaExtraMcGrawrev.jpg"><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/uffda51/frontsbacks/Mino%20Cobb%20.JPG"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/uffda51/frontsbacks/Mino%20Cobb%20back.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p><img src="http://obaks.com/images/t216speaker.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1205280477.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Brian Lindholme</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1205297272.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1205297296.JPG"> <br /><br />My Virginia Extra has been through some rough days, but you sure don't see many of these around...<br /><br />Brian L<br />familytoad<br />Ridgefield,WA

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>LEON<br /><br />It's quite a paradox that these Tobacco cards were printed using the various E-card fronts. And, why<br />are these 3 issues so scarce ? <br />Both these factors can possibly be explained by the People's Tobacco Company, Ltd.(PTC) vs the Am-<br />erican Tobacco Company (ATC)......litigation that started January 4, 1912. My theory is that the PTC<br /> contracted American Caramel (or it's affiliates) to print their cards.....since, due to this legal conflict,<br /> ATC would not let PTC use the ATC's printing firm (American Lithographic).<br />Due to this litigation, PTC's three T-brands were short-lived, (hence, very few cards were produced).<br /> <br /><br />And, isn't it very interesting that (Mr anti-cigarette) Wagner is depicted on 4 cards in each of these<br />three T216 sets.<br /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/e90wagner.jpg"><br /><br /><br />More identical E-card FRONTS used in the PEOPLE'S TOBACCO COMPANY, Ltd.<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/e90cobb.jpg"><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/croftsmcgraw.jpg"><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/atrispeak.jpg"><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/echasefielding.jpg"><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/batwagner.jpg"><br /><br /><br />T-Rex TED

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Ted - that is an interesting theory. <br /><br />I always thought of the ATC as sort of the Starbucks of its time. Monopolize and kill/absorb all of its competitors. I believe that the People's Tobacco Company held out for as long as it could as an independent manufacturer of tobacco, and it suffered for it. To this day there is very little information about the company, and you see virtually nothing on their products from ephemera to advertising. <br /><br />I think that the low production run of their products coupled with the location of distribution (Louisiana) makes all of their cards extremely difficult to find.<br /><br />Are any of your cards with the Mino or Virginia Extra back?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>My theory stems from this court case, filed on January 4, 1912.....<br /><br /> PEOPLE'S TOBACCO CO., Limited v. AMERICAN TOBACCO CO.<br /><br />Argued Jan. 4-7, 1918<br />Decided March 4, 1918<br /><br /><br />It appears to be a very complicated case that dragged out for many years, shortly after ATC was disolved in Dec. 1911.<br />And, I think because it dragged out for many years, it must of limited the production of these three Louisiana T-brands<br /> and the production (or lack of) their T216 cards.<br /><br />The answer to your last question is that all my cards, that I have posted here, are all E-type cards, whose fronts are<br /> the same as their T216 counterparts.<br /><br />TED Z<br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The MINO back gives a clue as to why Peoples Tobacco and Amer. Tobacco were "battling" in court...."NOT IN THE TRUST". <br /><br />The T216's are one of only three Tobacco issues to include a Plank card (T204 & T206 are the other two).<br /> The same image of Plank, as depicted in the E90-1 set, is printed the KOTTON, MINO, and Viginia Extra cards. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/edplanke90.jpg"><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>All I know is I am jealous of all the cards y'all are posting.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Ted - fyi, Plank was also in the T5 and T208 sets. <br /><br />I have been researching the People's Tobacco Company for some time now and have been looking for T216 related items for years. I managed to pick up a few items related to the company, including what I believe to be the only Mino Cigarettes item known to the hobby. Leon (hi Leon) was kind enough to slap me a couple of times before allowing me to scoop it up. If anyone has ever seen another, please let me know. As far as I know, nothing with the correct Virginia Extra Cigarettes has ever been discovered.<br /><br /><a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/ephemera/?action=view&current=minosign.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/ephemera/minosign.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Wagner was issued in 3 T products: T5, T206 and T216. <br /><br /><a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/bank/?action=view&current=minosfront.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/bank/minosfront.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/bank/?action=view&current=minosback.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/bank/minosback.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>1st..thanks for reminding me, I had forgotten about Plank being in the T5 & T208 sets. Hey, I recently<br /> went to my 50th HS reunion....my mind is getting overloaded.<br /><br />2nd..A suggestion to you in tracking down Virginia Extra cigarette packs (or related items)....check-out <br />British ephemera. As is obvious, the brand "Peoples Tobacco Co., Ltd." tells us that it was part of the<br /> British-American Tobacco, Ltd. consortium. Sometime back I saw an item which listed 1919 prices for<br /> exported cigarettes to England, which included Virginia Extra cigarettes sold in Tins containing 1000<br />cigarettes for 20 Shillings ($2.60). Shipped directly from Gulfport seaports.<br /><br />TED Z <br />

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Ted - thanks for the tip. From my research, there were several Virginia Extra issues in the 1910-1930 timeframe, at least one related to the American Tobacco Company. Where things were exported to, especially during wartime, is always tough to trace. I still have not found anything related to People's version of VE, although here is one VE issue that may or may not have been exported. This one is from the ATC which can be traced with its reference to "Home Run Cigarettes"<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/ephemera/?action=view¤t=ftp002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/ephemera/ftp002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The name "IRBY'S" on your neat VE piece is W. R. Irby....a manager of that Tobacco Co. He is cited in the court<br /> case that I noted in my prior post on this thread. Here is a link that will get you to a listing of ATC cases starting<br /> in the 19th Century and into the 20th. Slide down the list about 1/3 of the way; and, click onto the "People's<br /> Tobacco Co v American Tobacco Co, 246 US 79" case.<br /><br />medicolegal.tripod.com/tradecases.htm.....(cut/paste this string and precede it with "http://")<br /><br />There's a lot of legalese in this very complex and lengthy case. And, if you're a lawyer it should be easy to follow.<br /> See what you make of it.<br /><br />Also, could you tell me what is printed below the "Factory No. 74, First District, State of MO." line on your piece ?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />TED Z<br /><br />Edited to redo link that initially would not work.