Jay Miller and Doug Allen [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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02-26-2008, 05:12 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellHow about getting Doug to respond to his statement about taking creases out of cards? Many moons ago said "I have no problem with taking out light creases or surface wrinkles that do not break the surface" Then he said he would report back to us after talking with SGC and PSA. Maybe I missed his response. Also Leon made a comment that Doug told him "it wasn't worth the grief and that he no longer has his staff remove wrinkles or creases from cards". What is wrong Doug with stating your company's policy on this publicly. 1)How active were you(Mastro Auctions) in removing creases from cards in preparing them for grading. How many cards would you estimate that you and your staff removed creases from? 2)Is Leon right and you have not instructed your staff to remove creases anymore? 3)What was the reaction of SGC and PSA to your removing creases? Did they condone this? Jim

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02-26-2008, 05:17 PM

Posted By: robHey Rich, Is that the kind of response you were looking for when you started this thread? Boy, talk about a rude, negative hijack to a positve, excited post. Good stuff Jim. Rob

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02-26-2008, 05:22 PM

Posted By: Dave FJim- Wouldn't it be easier at this point to just call Doug a raving lunatic and throw dog poop on his door step? Dave

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02-26-2008, 05:24 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCas i've mentioned before, i have read the manuscript of the T206 book that Art M & Doug wrote, it is thorough and very detailed. hope it eventually gets published. regards, MS

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02-26-2008, 05:39 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellThanks--maybe we can finally get Doug to respond?

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02-26-2008, 05:57 PM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- you're going after Doug on two different threads, and he is actually agreeing to speak with you privately. Why don't you guys just chat at a convenient moment and not drag this onto the board.

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02-26-2008, 06:00 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, Because its a hobby issue--not a personal issue. Here Doug has a chance to turn around the company's reputation and explain its policies. Why would he not want to do this?

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02-26-2008, 06:15 PM

Posted By: Cobby33Who would- with an introduction like that.

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02-26-2008, 06:15 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI don't want to speak for him, but he may not want to do it because it is so easy to get attacked when one discusses controversial matters on the board.

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02-26-2008, 06:17 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaJay mentioned this book about 2 weeks ago here on the board that he would like some info on a few of the teams represented in the set. I only collect one team, but I can tell you that I am quite excited about this book as the N172 set is IMO the greatest baseball card set ever produced. If I ever win the lottery look out....

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02-26-2008, 06:19 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, I am not asking for a discussion just a statement as to what his companies policies were and are today in regard to crease removal from cards. He said he would come back to the board with an explanatiion after talking with SGC and PSA--we have given him over a year to have that conversation.

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02-26-2008, 06:24 PM

Posted By: Corey R. ShanusJim, No disrespect intended but you, given your absolute, complete, unconditional no-holds-barred refusal to in any way be willing to take your altered cards out of their graded holders (and indeed instructing PSA upon resubmittal to return any non-upgraded cards in their original holders), calling Doug to task for his previous comments about taking creases out of cards is akin to Libya chairing the U.N. Human Rights Committee.

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02-26-2008, 06:30 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellCorey, You are incorrect but I am surprised that you condone taking creases out of cards and would not want an explanation? You don't care about card alteration and would rather use this to(once again) attack me?

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02-26-2008, 06:34 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Darn it. I had the 9:45-9:59 p.m. time slot in the "When will Jim Crandell accuse someone of attacking him" pool. Just missed.

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02-26-2008, 06:34 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellDo you takke creases out of cards too Anonymous?

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02-26-2008, 06:38 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliRich: I'm not a subscriber to SABR-L, so I was wondering if you could tell us what more info there is about this book? I'm finding myself gazing at my lone Old Judge more and more, and thinking it would be great to learn more about the issue so I could feel more confident in bidding/buying. Any other info? -Al

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02-26-2008, 06:39 PM

Posted By: Dave FLeon- I told you we were overdue. Leave it to Jim. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Dave

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02-26-2008, 06:40 PM

Posted By: Richard Cline - RCI for one would love to hear about the books, great post I might add, and leave this other debate on another thread that I can choose to ignore. RC

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02-26-2008, 06:41 PM

Posted By: Steve MurrayFirst we had a masturbation and now a perturbation. Let's move on <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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02-26-2008, 06:48 PM

Posted By: Corey R. Shanus"You are incorrect but I am surprised that you condone taking creases out of cards and would not want an explanation? You don't care about card alteration and would rather use this to(once again) attack me?" Please tell me one post I ever made in which I condone card alteration. I think to the contrary I have been an outspoken critic of the practice. Rather what I and many others have been trying to impress upon you to apparently no avail is that you cannot credibly be a critic of the practice if by your actions you do not back up your position. And your refusal to take your altered cards out of circulation is such an inconsistent action. Suppose you were to ask PSA to look for alterations. And suppose they were to find some. Would they not offer to compensate you such as to make you substantially whole for your loss? If not, then THAT it seems to me would be as newsworthy a practice as any that has been exposed on this board.

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02-26-2008, 06:49 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblittare akin to the movie groundhog day........the alarm goes off in the morning but they just keep coming back.......

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02-26-2008, 06:57 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellTom, Do you disagree with me? Do you think its okay to take creases out of cards or would you prefer to sweep it under the rug.

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02-26-2008, 07:00 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellCorey, I will be glad to debate you privately on this but instead of changing the topic you seem to say that Mastro's past practices are wrong. Wouldn't you like to know what their policies are now and have the president state this?

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02-26-2008, 07:02 PM

Posted By: Corey R. ShanusJim, Yes, but it just rubs me the wrong way when it is you asking the question.

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02-26-2008, 07:03 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinHowever, when you proclaim that not ONE of your cards has been altered -- that is almost a mathematical impossibility --- especially on the pre-war cards. Now I do believe that your cards 57 on up are all legit. However, I do find it hard for you to want to start the revolution but duck to the rear when YOUR cards are brought up. It's nothing personal, but in my opinion only -- it hurts your worthy cause Regards Rich Edited for the heck of it

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02-26-2008, 07:07 PM

Posted By: scott brockelmanThe 50's and 60's cards would be the most suspect with all of the card doctoring that went on in the past. Many cards were improved a grade or two, even the ones right out of vending. Razor sharp, but just a bit of recentering needed. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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02-26-2008, 07:22 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellScott, Everyone that I know in the hobby think low-to-mid grade prewar cards have the most that are altered--particularly ungraded. Of the 15-20,000 cards I have sent in, the highest percentage that came back altered was prewar. Jim

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02-26-2008, 07:24 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellRich, I said that tongue in cheek. As I said many many times I would like to stop the flow of altered cards into the hobby. What is already out there is water under the bridge. Anyway, what do you think about taking creases out of cards and would you like to hear if the largest auction house in the hobby still does it?

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02-26-2008, 07:25 PM

Posted By: SteveJim, you collect low to mid grade pre war cards? Steve

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02-26-2008, 07:28 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellSteve, No--just 8s or better--just saying that dealers I have talked to about alteration believe prewar ungraded most likely to be altered.

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02-26-2008, 07:30 PM

Posted By: scott brockelmanSO, all these ungraded cards in old time collections or even on this board have a high number of altered cards? Sorry to say you have been sadly misinformed. Edited to add, that you have nothing to back your statement up except "dealers told me" Perhaps you should learn about cards yourself and not take the word of others, especially if you are going to spend quite a bit of money on them.

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02-26-2008, 07:33 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellScott, Not old time collections but sadly a lot of what is out there today is not able to be slabbed as it is altered or simply sold raw altered in an advertised better condition. Jim

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02-26-2008, 07:34 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinI'm against any type of altering -- and when you chat with Doug can you get him to answer MY question about his T206 book <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Regards Rich Edited to add a specific request of Jim in his conversation with Doug

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02-26-2008, 07:36 PM

Posted By: Brian<<What is already out there is water under the bridge.>> Its never too late to do the right thing.

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02-26-2008, 07:38 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellRich, Good for you! Nice to hear someone stands up for what is right and wrong. Sorry to mess up your thread. If Doug calls me I will get you an answer. Jim

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02-26-2008, 07:38 PM

Posted By: scott brockelmanYour out of your league in this argument, you have no idea or proof to back up the off base assertations you make. Again I would suggest you learn about the cards of which you speak first hand.

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02-26-2008, 07:38 PM

Posted By: Trevor HockingFirst off this thread is SO badly hi-jacked it is sickening. Really Jim very very bad form. I think this was a great question to start off Rich. I have read and Art and Doug's pre-printed book as well and it was very very well done and wish too someday it can be published. I am so looking forward to Jay's and Joe's N172 book that I will be buying a signed copy <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> But this has taken a very very wrong turn so I guess I will say Scott is SO right Jim. I believe that there are way more unaltered pre-war cards raw than in holders. Please note I said unaltered. Trevor Hocking

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02-26-2008, 07:40 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellScott, I would suggest asking an expert. Ask Dave Forman or Joe Orlando or Mike Baker what does he see the highest percentage of alterations in.

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02-26-2008, 07:43 PM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyI might be takin crazy pills or something here Jim but doesn't it stand to reason that the reason your "dealer friends" are telling you it is the low-to-mid-grade cards are "more altered" is because they are selling you high grade cards? They don't seem to be the most impartial people in the equation if you ask me. What would they have to gain by saying that it's the 8's and 9's that are altered, other than decreased business that is? -Rhett

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02-26-2008, 07:44 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinA long time ago, I hijacked one of Jim's threads -- so I have no problem with that he hijacked one of mine -- however; can we go back to book information now <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Rich

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02-26-2008, 07:44 PM

Posted By: Max WederRich Thanks for the post. I hadn't noticed the note in SABR-L, and I'm looking forward to Jay and Doug and Art M's work. Max

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02-26-2008, 07:46 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellRich, I never forgot that and I have been waiting to get back at you <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Rhett--I say asking the presidents of the grading companies--they will tell you.

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02-26-2008, 08:03 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliJim: On May 27, 2007, in this very forum, Doug Allen of Mastro Auctions posted this: "...neither myself or anyone from my firm will ever engage in the alteration of cards. We will disclose alterations that we note in items that are consigned to us and will continue to scrutinize cards submitted to us that have already been graded by an independant service. I refuse to say anything else on the subject..." You did, in fact, read Mr. Allen's post, as evidenced by this response that you made in response to him: "So Doug to reiterate the question that Jeff asked again and has been asked by numerous participants on this thread and which you continue to avoid,is it Mastronet's policy today to take creases out of the cards to "prepare" them for grading?" To help you better understand the answer that he had already provided you, Mr. Allen responded with this: "I have answered the question. We do not alter cards that are submitted to grading services I am not dodging any questions and am not leaving any wiggle room. You all seem focused on crease removal so I will answer that specific question. PSA and SGC do not allow for anything that applies undue pressure on a card including crease removal. That would be considered an alteration of a card in keeping with this this is prohibited by my employees." Nine months later, you are still asking the same question of the same man, in every thread on this board that mentions Mr. Allen's company. In fact, you have mentioned in more than one post tonight that you never recall Mr. Allen addressing the issue of policy regarding card alterations on this board. And yet that is clearly not the case, as evidenced by the excerpts from your own posts above, you clearly read and understood Mr. Allen's responses to the very same questions you are asking today. If you are looking for some different answer to the question, please specify. If you don't believe Mr. Allen's answer, please specify. If you have evidence that would refute Mr. Allen's earlier policy statement on this board, please elaborate. We'd all love to hear it. But the place to do it would be in a different thread. You are interfering with other discussions, and I seem to recall you being a pretty vocal opponent of thread hijacking. I am interested in learning more about a potential book on N172s. That's why I opened this thread. If you want to beat up Doug Allen, please go to the designated Doug Allen Beatup Thread, which I believe is entitled "Mastro or Memory Lane," and is the perfect place to discuss clarifications on matters of policy, ad spending, and secretaries. -Al Edited for grammar, because I am a monkey.

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02-26-2008, 08:09 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinAl: While there is nothing funny in anyone getting beat up -- I cracked up when I saw your post about the designated Doug Allen beat up thread. If I were in a Chat room right now -- I would be typing ROTFLMAO And let's get back on target about books. Doug, can you answer my question about your T206 book -0- I don't have a secretary so I'll just email you direct <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> And Jay -- any idea when the book you're working on will be done -- I am really looking forward to reading and adding that work to my library <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Onward! March! Regards Rich Edited to add a few more lines that should make us all smile

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02-26-2008, 08:12 PM

Posted By: Dave FI believe thats checkmate Jim.

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02-26-2008, 08:13 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCAl- Bravo

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02-26-2008, 08:15 PM

Posted By: BrianAl, you sure know how to ruin a perfect train wreck.

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02-26-2008, 08:21 PM

Posted By: Doug AllenFirst of all I second what Al said...wait a minute all he did was repeat what I said. OK I will confirm again that is what I said. Rich....not sure when the book will be published. Maybe I will dust it off and get it published this year. So much other stuff going on. Hey maybe Jay will let me publish both in one volume...the the two greatest tobacco sets ever issued....whatcha think Jay??? Doug

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02-26-2008, 08:45 PM

Posted By: ramramI too look forward to the publications. Leon - if Jim hijacks one more thread can you PLEASE suspend him! I'm sure everyone is sick and tired of this crap. Rob M.

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02-26-2008, 08:54 PM

Posted By: Josh AdamsAl wins this thread. Game over. Doug, add me to the list of people interested in reading your book and gaining more knowledge on OJs. Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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02-26-2008, 09:08 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinJay is working on the OJ book Doug has the completed manuscript for the T206 book Just so you can keep it straight <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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02-26-2008, 11:21 PM

Posted By: JimBHaving read both Doug/Art's T206 book and Scot Reader's, I would suggest combining the information in the two of those into one book. I have the two bound together personally as they have much complimentary information. I also look forward to Jay's OJ book. Perhaps doing it together with the T206 book is a good idea. Whatever format you all choose, I will be buying a copy. I would suggest using a lot of color photos. JimB P.S. Maybe we should all just ignore Jim Crandall. The blatant hijack of a good thread was the height of arrogance and narcissism.

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02-27-2008, 02:10 AM

Posted By: John SRich, I too am excited about both of these books. Thanks for the post.

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02-27-2008, 03:11 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellSo I guess the answer is that he admitted to altering cards, does not do it any more and will not disclose how many he directed be altered? Accoreding to Doug's prior response, SGC and PSA do not allow for anything that puts pressure on a card(crease removal)which Doug admitted to. So Doug did you know that this was their policy when you directed your people to remove creases or were you unaware that PSA and SGC forbid this practice.

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02-27-2008, 04:13 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- nobody wants to see any kind of unethical behavior in this industry. But Doug has already stated very clearly, in a company email (I think) that Mastro Auctions no longer does anything to a baseball card to improve its appearance or grade. Why do you keep harping on this? We all agree with you- altering is bad- but Doug has already addressed this in writing.

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02-27-2008, 04:19 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, As I said there are a number of questions--here are two 1)did you know that you were in violation of SGC and PSA policies while you were dircecting your people to alter cards? 2)How many cards do you estimate you altered--when did you start altering cards and when did you stop?

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02-27-2008, 04:31 AM

Posted By: barrysloateSo let's say Doug comes on the board and says "Okay Jim, you nailed me, I personally altered 100 cards." How does that help?

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02-27-2008, 04:53 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, You would not like to know who altered cards and who doesn't--boy I would--it would make it a lot easier for buying.

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02-27-2008, 04:59 AM

Posted By: barrysloateHow are we to keep track of previously altered cards? Even if someone told you which cards they altered how would you find them among a future pool of cards for sale? If I told you I took a crease out of a 62 Mantle, would you closely inspect ever 62 Mantle that crossed your path, hoping to avoid buying that card? I think you are asking for information that will not make it any easier or safer for you or anyone else.

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02-27-2008, 05:30 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldRich, this thread can't get off topic again unless it first returns to the topic. THEN it could wander again...

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02-27-2008, 05:38 AM

Posted By: Marc S.<<You would not like to know who altered cards and who doesn't--boy I would--it would make it a lot easier for buying.>> Jim: You make it sound as if there are some people in this hobby who are nothing but bad....card alterers extraordinaire who do nothing but feed bad cards into the hobby. Why must it be so black and white for you? Even if there is a successful card alterer, his success is predicated upon his ability to pass his materials through grading companies. Once they are professionally graded, there are dozens, if not hundreds of avenues by which said person could get his card circulating through the hobby. Ebay, Auction houses, Ebay consignors, etc. Even some of the people whom I believe are card alterers (hi, Gary!) have at least accomplished rudimentary ways to get those cards into the hobby. That's the whole problem, them. Once it is out in the hobby, where it goes is anyone's game. I hear and read stories of T-206s, T-205s and other pre-war cards that are traded, bought and sold, or otherwise trade hands at least half a dozen times over the course of a year or two. At which point, you've pretty much killed any chance of being able to simplify the problem by trusting some people, but not others. Of course, the flip side of the issue is that a collector's best defense is to understand card alterations as best they can. Jim -- you mention in the past that in the 1980s, you purchased runs of sets from Alan Rosen, some of which contained altered cards. Have you inspected those cards to see what the alterations are? Have you inspected any of the cards in your personal collection? I believe that your biggest issue with this hobby is that you want to trust the grading companies to be correct 100% of the time, but you cannot. However, you do not trust yourself, or are otherwisde disinclined to personally examine your acquisitions to see if any of them are potentially problematic. Jim -- at what point will you realize that you are in the minority? Yes -- many of us have concerns about card alterations. Me -- I've educated myself and figure I can do a better than average job on evaluating a card. But your fascination with this topic is akin to Gollum's fascination with the One Ring. The rest of us want to enjoy this hobby, which is why we participate in these and other forums. You have completed hijacked this thread (and another) simultaneously. Is there any chance that you will actually read the messages and tones that other collectors are using with you on threads like these? On occassion, it is amusing in a Peter Chao kind of way. But you've ruined another great thread, with the same premises that you frequently harp upon: not adding any new information and dragging up the same old ****.

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02-27-2008, 05:38 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, To me the issue is not the individual card. It is the person. I ask myself would Barry Sloate knowingly have altered a card in his lifetime. To me the answer is 100 percent no. That makes me much more willing to do business with you. Would Doug Allen knowingly have altered cards--yes--he admitted to it--how many? who knows? Would I buy cards from him--possibly but I would try hard not to.

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02-27-2008, 05:48 AM

Posted By: boxingcardmanI think I can attest to the existence of many, many people who have stopped posting on this board and have greatly reduced their readership here because of your paranoid, idiotic ravings. Doug has already answered your question and yet you (1) refuse to acknowledge it, (2) continue to hijack threads every time Mastro is mentioned, and (3) refuse to call Doug and talk about whatever bug it is that is up your @$$ despite his standing invitation for you to do so. I and many others I talk to are sick and tired of your antics which, as Al has pointed out, are nothing more than worthless grandstanding. Either drop it or leave. I urge everyone who feels the same as I do to email Leon and let him know that you are sick of this garbage clogging up legitimate discussions of our Hobby. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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02-27-2008, 05:48 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellMarc, You are misrepresenting what I have said in the past. I have a couple altered cards that I got from Alan Rosen--I have zero problem cards from him otherwise--please get your facts right. I like the message board to discuss and hear about serious issues--not to enjoy the hobby--I think its a serious issue--you don't fine. Lastly as you know better than anyone I could care less what others think--I can be a minority of 1 or 3 or 5 and often am--others want to be popular on the message boards and never say anything that is actually interesting--at least to me. Best to your family--i am in disappointed in you Marc--I expected better. Jim

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02-27-2008, 05:52 AM

Posted By: MattJim - so what you're saying is that if someone committed come impropriety 20 years ago, and hasn't done it since, you still wouldn't trust them? You're not really into the whole people learning from their mistakes thing, are you.

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02-27-2008, 05:55 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellMatt, No--for example I would be willing to forgive JP Cohen for his crimes. My requirement is that they come clean. All Doug needs to say is yes I altered cards over a period of years accounting for x number of cards and I sincerely regret doing this. Then he should say I did it or did not do it with the full knowledge that SGC and PSA consider this to be wrong. If he did that I would forgive him immediately.

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02-27-2008, 05:59 AM

Posted By: MattYou have lofty standards for forgiveness - a public admission of wrongdoing and an apology. Of course, since they are your standards, you certainly can refrain from bidding on Mastro's auctions. The rest of us seem satisfied that he has agreed it is no longer done.

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02-27-2008, 06:12 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellFair enough Matt-- Would you feel differently if he never responded to my question and never admitted he did this. With all the flack I am getting if I had never pressed the issue in the first place or never pressed him to elaborate later it would never be known that he altered cards and directed the alteration of cards and perhaps he never would have stopped.

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02-27-2008, 06:16 AM

Posted By: MattJim: "With all the flack I am getting if I had never pressed the issue in the first place or never pressed him to elaborate later it would never be known that he altered cards and directed the alteration of cards and perhaps he never would have stopped." The flack you are getting is for continuing to push the issue after he answered the questions to our satisfaction. I appreciate you bringing the issue to light in the first place, but there was a time to let it be.

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02-27-2008, 06:24 AM

Posted By: Jeff Priznerno, he's just an attention slut

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02-27-2008, 06:31 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray"Would I buy cards from him--possibly but I would try hard not to." Why don't you try a little harder. To buy cards from him would seem to me to be hypocritical inasmuch have you have branded him with the scarlett "A".

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02-27-2008, 06:34 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellThere are some cards I just gotta have so I would bid--there are others that I might bid on that I would let pass.

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02-27-2008, 06:36 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellThank you to those who appreciate me bringing the issue to light in the first place--now we will see if there is a public or private follow-up.

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02-27-2008, 06:48 AM

Posted By: JKThis is great stuff - Jim, you keep altering the questions that you want Doug to respond to. First you wanted him to admit to pressing cards and state whether he has stopped that practice. Once shown that he has explicitly answered those questions; rather than admit you are riding a dead horse, you've added more questions for Doug to answer: how many, what was done to each, when did you do it, and on and on - as if that information could help you at all. Suppose Doug were to come on here and answer your additional questions - are we really to believe that you would then be satisfied? I dont. I think you would then simply come up with some other "issue" to press (no pun intended).

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02-27-2008, 06:48 AM

Posted By: Steve MurrayI presume that AndyC88 has properly identified himself? If not his negative posts should be deleted.

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02-27-2008, 06:49 AM

Posted By: JKHey AndyC88 - why dont you stop hiding behind your keyboard and identify yourself per the forum rules since you are not well known to the board.

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02-27-2008, 06:59 AM

Posted By: barrysloateTrolls rarely identify themselves- don't hold your breath.

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02-27-2008, 07:07 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellJK, Thank you. Yes my questions did change but if he came on and publicly addressed the following four questions I would stop and become a good customer again: 1)How long did you alter cards for 2)How manty cards during this period did you alter or did you direct to have altered 3)Did you know while you werte doing this that PSA and SGC considered it to be wrong 4)Apologize to the hobby for doing this. Thanks to most for their support. Jim

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02-27-2008, 07:19 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaCheck me if I'm wrong here Jim, but just a week or two back you were gushing over some Gary guy who has a reputation for altering cards - I did not see any public demands from you in that instance.

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02-27-2008, 07:19 AM

Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)Jim, Enough is enough. Stop hijacking other's threads. Can you not see how rude it is? Why do you just call it "water under the bridge" as you did with reference to the number of altered cards in your collection? Or better yet, why do you not disclose how many altered cards you have in your collection and Doug will disclose how many light wrinkles he has taken out and you guys can make it a contest and talk about it over breakfast which your secretaries can set up for you.

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02-27-2008, 07:21 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellDan, I have not bought cards from Gary for a long long time. Every single card I bought from him I had graded and 100% of them graded. Has he stated on here that he altered cards?

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02-27-2008, 07:28 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaGood for you Jim....others weren't so lucky.

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02-27-2008, 07:55 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellDan, As one famous person in the hobby who is in a position to know told me back then he was 100 percent legit. Since then some people whom I respect(Frank Evanov for example)have had bad experiences with cards bought from him.

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02-27-2008, 08:17 AM

Posted By: JayJoe and I, and several helpers like Kevin and John, are working on the book now and hope to have it completed later this year. We are pretty far along but are novices to the process which is why I am not being more specific on the date. All I can say now is that we will try to picture as many of the poses as we can, and it looks like we should be able to get to almost 2350 of the 2471(as of this ten seconds)known poses. Doug--Perhaps we an make it a two volume boxed set.

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02-27-2008, 08:36 AM

Posted By: John SAwesome Jay, I can't wait. A great addition to the hobby.

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02-27-2008, 12:12 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDan, you just maligned that Gary guy who, as I have been informed via email, is a very well known doctor!

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02-27-2008, 03:22 PM

Posted By: RichardJay - whenever someone says "That guy has forgotten more about the hobby than what I will ever know," it just makes me cringe. There is so much knowledge trapped in the minds of some of the hobby veterans that will never see the light of day. Most of these people take this hobby knowledge to the grave. In this information and technology age when it is so easy to communicate through various forms of media, it is really a shame. As a relative hobby noob, I applaud and thank you for taking the time to share such information and allow others to learn from it. Richard

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02-27-2008, 03:29 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI think most hobby veterans are willing to share their knowledge if asked. That said, I think the book that Jay and Joe are doing will be an instant hobby classic (kind of like "Gone with the Wind" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>).

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02-27-2008, 03:39 PM

Posted By: RichardBarry - I have never owned an OJ before. If I ever wanted to learn about the issue and start collecting them, I would not pick up a phone to call Jay, as much as I'm sure he would want me to. The fact that he is willing to put down on paper his knowledge about the issue so that not only current collectors can learn about OJs, but also those 10, 20, 50 years down the road, is commendable.

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02-27-2008, 03:44 PM

Posted By: barrysloateA definitive book on Old Judges, something that has never even been attempted before, is a monumental contribution to the hobby. If you ask me, this will be the most informative book ever written on a set of baseball cards. I too am excited to see it finished.

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02-27-2008, 03:52 PM

Posted By: DDHi, First of all, what a great gift to the hobby. Can you briefly cover what the content will include, aside from the gallery? I am looking forward to buying a copy. Thanks, David

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02-27-2008, 03:53 PM

Posted By: Steve M.This is big time stuff. It could very well open up a whole new interest in the Old Judges. I especially look forward to seeing the Toronto McGuire.

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02-27-2008, 05:08 PM

Posted By: John<img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/everyone_lg.jpg"> Jim; I think Doug answered this awhile back as others have pointed out. Doug it’s a good thing too because I intercepted an email that Jim’s next play was answer the question or the kitten gets it! <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/cat2020gun-704528.jpg"> Perhaps Doug is just holding out for another Pizza party before he answers…maybe you should phrase your question a little more like this. “Dear Doug, are you a senior executive of a dishonest company that pulls fast ones on us simple folk? If so please publicly admit it for me….oh and by the way what do you want on your pie?” Man if this gets out of hand we could have another state of the hobby summit sponsored by Crandall & Dominos! And if theres no resolve in 30 mins everyone gets a free 2 liter Coke! Oh and no need to order cheesy bread, Jim will be there that's enough cheese for everyone. Jeff…too funny attention slut…my how are little troll has grown up. So there are my thoughts Jim its been a awhile since we danced...go ahead get the waterworks ready...Leon is waiting by for your attack whistle. P.S. Jim recently you stated in a thread that you just place a top all bids phone bid with these auction houses, you even said in the same line you trust these guys. So if you trust these guys to bid on your behalf with your money why the witch hunt on pressing creases the latter seems trivial at best.

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02-27-2008, 06:46 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI appreciate the multiple posts but you have to go to my thread to get my response--it does not pertain to the topic.

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02-27-2008, 07:04 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanIsn't it about time for the applesauce guy to chime in?

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02-27-2008, 07:05 PM

Posted By: Brianpriceless

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02-27-2008, 07:08 PM

Posted By: Brianand I still like applesauce (I would have posted sooner, but I was flossing)...

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02-27-2008, 07:11 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanNow I feel better.

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02-27-2008, 07:12 PM

Posted By: BrianMy pleasure.

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02-28-2008, 04:27 AM

Posted By: Rich KleinI always wanted to be the author of a long three digit thread. Now I can say I have made it on the Vintage Chat Board Regards Rich

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02-28-2008, 05:34 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblitt........you've come a long way baby.........

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02-28-2008, 06:46 PM

Posted By: BcDlots of stuff you will never know Jim out of fear of some being sued for defamation (even though much of it would be true~) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWlOhi0BksA" target="_new" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWlOhi0BksA</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWlOhi0BksA</a</a>> yo Tom~ BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> JimCrandell (Login Davalillo) Re: Jay Miller and Doug Allen February 25 2008, 10:40 PM Scott, I would suggest asking an expert. Ask Dave Forman or Joe Orlando or Mike Baker what does he see the highest percentage of alterations in. well,2 of these guys are probably experts anyway!