Unopened 1909 Sweet Caporal Pack

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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>OK -I know we have discussed this type of issue before and it is about a current auction so Leon there will be no hard feelings if you delete this- but I am curious about the current unopened 1909 Sweet Caporal pack that is up for auction now. Since I don't have any interest in the auction and I don't collect this sort of thing I was wondering if people who bid on it are bidding on the unopened/authentic graded package or are they really buying a lottery ticket with the intent to open the package and see what is inside?

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Bill,<br /><br />Such an unopened cigarette package doesn't exist. Before I even think of bidding, the seller would have to document the chain of custody. By this I mean, there needs to be somebody who says my father told me that he bought this package of smokes when he was 16. His mom told him he was too young to smoke so he hid the package in the attic for another day. Then when he passed away, the smokes were given to his nephew and has stayed in the family ever since.<br /><br />In the absence of this documentation of chain of custody, I wouldn't be interested.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Peter C. I didn't realize you were an authority on unopened cigarette packs. The breadth of your knowledge is truly impressive. Edited to add Your comment on your lack of personal interest due to insufficient provenance didn't respond to the question either, by the way.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>1. We don't delete threads anymore...we might lock one but deleting threads from someone that has a real name on it will be extremely rarely done....I've learned.<br /><br />2. In order to know if a pack has the potential to have a baseball card in it you must know the overprint date on the stamp and the factory # and location. If those are correct then there is a chance there is a card in it. Buying an unopened pack and thinking there is a card in it is very risky. I doubt I would almost ever buy one hoping for a baseball card. Don't forget there were many other types of cards put in them too....Buy it for the fact it's a good companion piece or buy a lottery ticket....(all imho)<br /><br />regards

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>There is no board rule, and there won't be one, about "outing" ongoing auctions. Most others and myself would prefer it not be done but there won't be a rule against it....best regards

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Bill your question is what the reasoning is of the bidders, rather than what it should be.<br /><br />One should ask; 1) What is the chance of pulling a T206 from the pack? (And, conversely, what is the chance of not pulling a T206, or even not pulling anything but old cigarettes?); 2) If a T206 is pulled what will the condition be? Does sitting in a pack for 98 years ensure a Mint card or even a Near Mint card?; 3) If a T206 is pulled what are the odds it will be worth what I paid or more for the pack? (And, conversely, what are the odds it will be worth less?) Even if the Gods are smiling on you that day and you pull a T206 Nap Lajoie (Near Mint-- sharp but with a touch of tobacco stain and a little off center), will this worth what you paid for the pack? <br /><br />Naturally many are bidding with the idea that there's a chance for a Gem Mint 10 Honus Wagner (Heck, even a Nrmt-Mt 8 will suffice), but you're as likely to find one in your underwear drawer.<br /><br />I've seen where people bid, say, $2,500 on a Sweet Caporal pack where the pack couldn't be pinpointed to the T206 era. One of those classic "1909-1919" packs. Even if the pack was from 1909-11 and even if the winning bidder pulled a T206 card from the pack (which means the winning bidder is already having one sweet f*cking lucky day), what are the chances the card will be worth $2,500? I would say the chances are slim.

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Posted By: <b>Paul S</b><p>In a perfect fantasy world (some say I live there, anyway) if I were to bid on the unopened pack, was assured of good provenance, and assured with an MRI there WAS a baseball card in there, it would be with the intention of opening it...and not just because I have the intention to start smoking again. (Hey, do you think the tobacco is still fresh?) It's like getting a box of Cracker Jacks...the first thing you do is dig down for the cheap plastic surprise... although I'd hope there was a Cracker JAX in there too.<br />I'd do the same with any wax pax that came my way.<br /><br />By the way, did you hear about the guy who sent in his Old Judge Premium coupons he won on Ebay last week?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>See the play by play of a T206 being pulled from a pack here:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_16.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_16.html</a>

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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>David is absolutely right -I wasn't knocking the auction or the listing description --I was just curious as to the intention of the bidders --thats all. I hope the sucessful bidder opens it live on the internet as well.

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Posted By: <b>Scott B.</b><p>How much would you guys pay for a GAI graded unopened pack (let's say Piedmont or Sweet Caporal pack, not Polar Bear pouch since I was told one can pull multiple t206s out from it) that guaranteed by the seller it has a t206 card in it?

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Posted By: <b>Scott B.</b><p>Unbelievible. This opened Piedmont pack sold for $638.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/PIEDMONT-CIGARETTES-CARDBOARD-SAMPLE-PACK-1910-FULL_W0QQitemZ110138016293QQihZ001QQcategoryZ44QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/PIEDMONT-CIGARETTES-CARDBOARD-SAMPLE-PACK-1910-FULL_W0QQitemZ110138016293QQihZ001QQcategoryZ44QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a>

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>ahhh..but a factory 42

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Perhaps it was bought as a display, but the seal is broken on the box. The broken seal would indicate the box was opened and, it can be preseumed, the contents checked out.<br /><br />The seller did not claim that the box was sealed, nor even hinted at the possibility of a card inside.

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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>I was just closing out this discussion with a note that the unopened pack of Sweet Caporal Cigarettes sold for $2,200. in the June Coach's Corner auction. Now what will the winner do?

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I will probably open it!

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>I will pay you 25.00 to let me watch you open it (in person or in cyberspace). Make that 30.00 <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Dave Kelley</b><p>I have hesitated responding to this post,but feel as though it is in the best interest of this board to inform you that after reciving this unopened pack from Coaches Corner...The most obvious OVERPRINT date of 1922 was visible to the naked eye! I did not ask for my money back, knowing that this was NOT IN THE DISCRIPTION...instead I opened it and destroyed it so there would be NO chance that another "reputable" auction house would mislead their bidders to drive the price up......actually, now that I think about it, NO REPUTABLE AUCTION HOUSE WOULD HAVE MISLEAD THEIR BIDDERS.....BEWARE OF COACHES CORNER!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi David,<br /> Too bad that there are at least 999 more of these packs in existence. Two different 500 pack cartons were found in the 90's and have been circulating through the Hobby ever since, and many were wrongly graded by GAI.<br /> I have pictures of one of the cartons, and will post when I have time.<br /><br /> Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>1880nonsports</b><p>The link is gone to the pack- and I'd really love to see the carton......... perhaps I could wash your car at the next national in exchange? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Ken W.</b><p>Wow!<br /><br />I opened up this thread without reading the date of when it began, and saw Peter C. was the second poster! Followed by a classic Peter S. retort. Actually, sort of gave me a warm fuzzy feeling.<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>There's nothing wrong with the 1920s pack. It's just they are not from 1909-11. All you have to do is prove it was F. Scott Fitzgerald's brand and you're on a roll.