Is BVG like SGC or PSA when mistakes come into play?

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p><br /><br />EDIT: Someone stepped up and bought it, thanks!<br /><br /><br />I paid $166 of my hard earned bucks for this probable trim-job from jaysace on eBay:<br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220173849686" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220173849686</a><br /><br />I haven't emailed the seller, as he states all sales are final, terms are terms, right?<br /><br />Will BVG buy it back? It was just slabbed in Oct. for crying out loud!<br /><br />Just FYI, T206.com won't buy back a trimmed card (it was ungraded)... I found that out a couple of years ago when they ignored multiple post-purchase emails.<br /><br />Thanks <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>for whatever it's worth, jaysace is a top-notch eBay seller, they always have quality items.<br /><br />just quickly looking at this scan, i can see that the card looks short top to bottom, and the side to side looks a little shy of what it should be...<br /><br />is BVG grading slipping? i think they were once considered really tuff graders.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Thanks Mike, no harm to jaysace meant, I've purchased from that seller before as well, never had an issue. I do think this card is pretty obvious though, and wish it were described as such.<br /><br />I do know one thing, BVG holders are beasts! This is the first one I've handled, and now the last one. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>ethicsprof</b><p>Hi Trae<br />Glad to see you back around!<br />Sorry about the card; it is a beaut but does appear trimmed.<br />Out of 515 different T206s--all slabbed-- i have only 3 BVGs because they just don't have the rigor of sgc. I will buy a BVG but only after major analysis. This Dorner was a tough one because it was such a beaut---i agonized about bidding again and again. Knowing you as I do, I'm sure that you analyzed again and again as well. BVG is just not the choice when it comes to our beloved T206s methinks.<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />Barry

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Hard to tell from the scan if it's trimmed. The scan shows what looks like bat-ears on the corners, but I don't think the card too short or too narrow (although it does not have the widest borders).<br /><br />I have four Beckett graded T206s. They seem to overgrade vintage cards, which is why the higher grade vintage cards in their holders sell at a discount to PSA and SGC. Unfortunately, I think they've also mistakenly slabbed some obvious alterations -- perhaps more than PSA and SGC. <br /><br />One would also have to wonder why that card is not in a PSA holder. The seller definitely left money on the table if that card graded a 7.<br /><br />The seller is reputable. I would send any email explaining your concerns. He has a no-return policy, but perhaps he'll view this as any exception (it's not like you're griping about a half grade here). Also, you could offer to send it to SGC on your dime -- if it doesn't cross, then maybe he would agree to take it back. In that case, you're only out the grading fee.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>How can you tell it is trimmed?? Size is MEANINGLESS in Tobacco issues. If the corners look dog eared then yes trimmed but do not go by the size. The grading companies examine the actual edges I believe but I could easily be corrected on this fact. Jaysace is a top notch seller and an outstanding Joe, I have had a few dealings with him. dan.

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Posted By: <b>Paul Moss</b><p>Pfft!<br /><br />BVG give you a bulletproof slab and an opinion. There is NO guarantee whatsoever as with PSA and SGC.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>This is the card you listed in the buy sell yesterday for $140...I almost emailed you about it for I like BVS graded cards and you were honest about your suspicion...how have you been able to confirm the trimming? <br /><br />I do think BVS will compensate you - but they might disagree with the idea it was trimmed.

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>As others have pointed out, some T206s aren't factory-cut to the intended size, for whatever reason. Isn't it possible that, although this card may be short, thats its not trimmed? We always see T206s with big (oversized) borders, can't there be T206s with small borders that aren't altered?<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>correct...just because a T206 looks "short", does NOT mean it is trimmed, they were not perfectly cut to a certain size in the factory...<br /><br />Trae- how are you sure it is trimmed?

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Posted By: <b>Kyle</b><p>I decided to give BVG a try with a vintage T, and it came back as restored a few days ago. So they have some concept of what to look for, but I've seen others that are questionable.

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Posted By: <b>James Gallo</b><p>If you paid with paypal regardless of what the seller says you can return the card. Plain and simple paypal will side with the buyer. It may burn a bridge with this seller but that will be your choice.<br /><br />I don't think BGS has a buy back policy but it wouldn't hurt to ask. Also they would need to look the card over and determine if the card is trimmed. <br /><br />I am not sure how a company would act if they got a card back and decided it was not trimmed? I guess they would just return it.<br /><br />IMO if a known seller sells a high grade pre-war card in a BGS holder, well I don't know.... I have bought a few BGS cracker jacks and they have always gone up a grade, however these were in the VG range and not as nice as that card looks.<br /><br />James G <br><br>Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>I appreciate all of the suggestions. I just took the card into my graphics editor, and apparently I am off my rocker, it lines up pretty perfectly, but to the naked eye it looks wavy, or maybe a slight diamond cut at the top. It measures perfectly. I just don't know what to think.<br /><br />If any of you think it's good, please by all means buy it at my loss, but I don't want it back!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.t206.org/misc/dornerguides.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Brad</b><p>The card doesn't look trimmed to me! I would think that all graders look for trimming and other defects when 1st looking at cards, plus the same card is probably viewed by a number of graders before being slabbed! <br /> <br />Highly unlikely the card is trimmed (the odds are in your favour!)

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Posted By: <b>Trae R.</b><p>Someone stepped up and bought it, thanks!

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Posted By: <b>Turner Engle</b><p>I'd give it a shot and cross it to SGC. Only $6 to do so.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i was just thinking the same thing, just send it to PSA or SGC for a crossover, it should cross...

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>FOR THE 500th TIME! Tobacco cards should NOT be a certain size! If you are new at this and do not know, then learn! If you are not new at this and think they should be 1 size, then you are not getting it. My set was assembled in the 1970s and I have about 20 different card sizes and NONE are trimmed. <br /><P> You bought a very nice card that wasn't trimmed. Is the size what is bothering you???