Colgan Chips: Tin Tops (E270-2) -- proper dating

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>This topic is posted on behalf of a collecting friend who is a lurker here (although I'll take full responsibility for the post)<br /><br />I'm curious what people believe the proper dating is of the Colgan's Tip Tops (E270-2). I think 1912 has been the common concensus for awhile, but I wonder/question whether or not the Skydash Collection find should cause us to re-evaluate this consideration.<br /><br />As a note to sloppiness on behalf of SGC, they have labelled the SGC 92 example in the Mastro auction as being from "1909-1911". Only the E254s date from this period, and clearly this is an E270-2, not a E254. Secondly, Thorpe did not begin playing until 1913. For a card with a minimum bid of $10,000, I'm a bit disappointed that SGC would make such a sloppy mistake.<br /><br />Additionally, the Chance is listed as New York, Am. and the Tinker is listed as Cincinnati. In 1912, both of these players were still with the Cubs. Tinker was not traded until December 15, 1912 and Chance was not picked up off of waivers until December 11, 1912. <br /><br />Therefore, I think one can only conclude that these were either issued in 1913, or from 1912-1913, as the examples pointed out above could have <i>only</i> been issued in 1913.<br /><br />I would very much appreciate any thoughts here from the advanced collectors who have likely studied this issue and others for much longer than I have. I'm just a student of the hobby, and I know that y'all here probbaly have something to teach me.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Marc

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Marc- based on the dates you provided, you are absolutely correct. The set certainly appears to have been issued in early 1913.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>you saw that too. I can't say the mistake was sloppy, as apparently others continue under the misapprehension that the set came out in 1912, but I was still disappointed that SGC missed it on such an important card. <br /><br />When in doubt, look to Lipset. His encyclopedia tabbed this as a 1913 issue what, 20 some years ago? He gave some player examples then, including Roger Bresnahan and Rube Foster as depicted on teams that they did not join until 1913.<br /><br />I'd like to hear from the set collectors about the tin tops as well, as I do not chase it--although I dabble in the more pedestrian e254 Colgans. What struck me was that Thorpe was working his Olympic magic in 1912, and it seemed unlikely that he would have returned home, signed a pro contract and played the last wee portion of the 1912 season so as to justify a card. More likely was a scenario where Colgan's jumped on his Olympic fame to include him in either a 1913 update of the e270-2s, or that the entire set was issued that year. When I looked it up and saw that Thorpe didn't start playing MLB until 1913, that sealed the deal. Of course, had I just re-examined Lew's work, it would have saved me time. <br /><br />So Tin Tops guys and gals, spill what you know about this set for us, would ya?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>That may also explain why Thorpe appears as a line drawing, and not a photograph.

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Posted By: <b>Mark Macrae</b><p>Not to be critical of any grading service , price guide or checklist publisher, there are simply many mistakes which have been published in the past reference books. Sometimes these errors are a result of carelessness, typos, or wishful thinking. Many of those who have collected Colgans for many years hold the belief that Tin Tops were issued in more than one year. The only way to accurately narrow the timeframe (on this as well as many other early sets) is to examine EVERY card, not rely on previously published research. Every team caption has to be cross-referenced with team roster information, including trades. Several years ago, Larry Fritsch and I started to collaborate on a refined checklist, but such a project required excessive time on either of our parts. As a result, the project stalled. Without the complete results of the research, it would be premature to speculate on the specific period, but suffice it to say, I feel as others do that Tin Tops are a multi-year issue...