A Good News Story on GAI !!

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>I had a bit of a situation with GAI regarding a rather expensive box of wax that I had left with them to auction or sell. It was sold around the same time that their site and phones went down so obviously, I was a bit freaked out.<br /><br />Full marks here to Mr. Mike Baker who I have never met before. He called me when he found out about my story and asked how he could make things right and how I wanted to be paid out. I told him PayPal was best and he put the dough in my account the very same night. The payment has since cleared A-OK and I must say that Mike went above and beyond the call of duty on this one to get the situation fixed.<br /><br />Obviously there will be a lot of hard work to restore their business and credibility but hopefully my scenario can be a building block in their comeback.<br /><br />Thanks again to Mike Baker and good luck to all at GAI !!

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Mike - can you explain what the original arrangement was - you left them something that they said they would sell for you?

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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>consignments.<br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't get it either. You left a box with GAI to auction or sell? I didn't know GAI ran auctions.

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Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>They started a division called Passport where they grade the cards and hold them. Post it on eBay and sell and ship them out. Think it was started around the National and have not seen very many of their auctions maybe a few hundred.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>That's right, I forgot about that. You can consign your cards via GAI. The info has been listed on their site for a while, so it's nothing covert. Beckett has essentially the same thing, with Beckett having an eBay id.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>This obviously opens the door for conflicts of interest - give the accurate grade or bump it up to get a higher commission. The only way I would be comfortable with this is if the decision by the card owner to consign could only be made after the card was graded.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I think a card grading company's longterm success is directly based on on how well they grade cards. Consignments or no, if they grade cards well, they grade cards well. If grading is poor and inconsistent, collectors will figure this out before long and avoid the product.<br /><br />While Beckett has a brand name, collectors judge their graded cards based on the grading. People buy or avoid Beckett graded cards due to their opinions on the grading, not that Beckett has an eBay account and published magazines.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I agree it's a conflict of interest. Since GAI is starting anew, that's one service they may want to deep six. Graders should just grade; there are numerous other ways to sell baseball cards.

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>This is the business model from hell, in my humble opinion.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jay- count me in on that opinion. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>1). held your box, not contacting you about it while they were being evicted from their office<br />2). had to have their grader (not one of their business people) contact you about how you wanted the matter resolved<br />3). had you take a % hit on the money by sending it via Paypal (unless they covered that, which I would have demanded)<br /><br />and this is a good news story? Even ignoring all of the conflicts of interest issues involved with the transaction, other than you at least getting your $ for the box I'd say it's a bad news story.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>No, no! You're missing out on the good idea here!<br /><br />BSGA - Barry Sloate Grading Associates<br /><br /><br /><br />Save those silly SGC fees. Start grading everything your consigners send in by yourself! All you need to start is some screw down holders (with rivets, not screws), a tube of Krazy Glue, some white Avery labels, and a Label Maker. <br /><br />Before the night is over, you'll be "making" more 9's and 10's than you ever dreamed of!<br /><br />I can almost smell the money being printed now.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Nope Jim, not gonna happen.<br /><br />I was just reminiscing with an old friend today about the days when you would put a card in a screwdown holder and grade it yourself, and everybody was happy. But that wouldn't fly today.<br /><br />I still wish the grading services were authenticating services only. Let them weed out all the bad cards, and the dealers and collectors can take it from there.

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Barry, I'll disagree with that last comment.<br /><br />In the good old days when you could put a card in a screwdown holder and grade it yourself, I don't believe that everyone was happy.<br /><br />I believe that many people who sold cards for a living were happy. However, I think that many times, collectors were decidedly UNhappy. That's why we have grading in the first place. Because there was a need for an independent third-party analysis of cards.<br /><br />I recall lots of instances in the "good old days," having dealers tell me a given card was in "mint condition" when it clearly was not. Similarly, I had dealers tell me that my EX-MT cards were, at best, VG-EX. Grading has helped this hobby immensely, in my opinion.<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>JIMcrandell</b><p>Everybody was happy????<br /><br />My God, there was a buyers revolt going on--nrmt-mt stuff was not being bid on in auctions as people had lost all confidence in the hobby--please, lets never go back there.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Authenticating has helped the hobby greatly.<br /><br />Grading has been a mixed blessing, IMO. I could go on for hours why, but I'll leave it at that for now.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>I am for plastic and grade everything, for the most part. The concept of grading has some inherent problems but it is a necessary "evil" and it has become the great equalizer. I know the board is mixed with PSA vs SGC supporters but I think they have made the market stronger for all. <br /><br />Collectors keep the hobby going. If they are not protected then the market dies. I had been burned plenty, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars in buying ungraded cards in the late 80's and early 90's. I have also been burned buying "bad" stuff in holders but that only becomes an issue when the card is broken out. In 12 or 13 years of buying graded material I have not been burned 1/10th of the amount I have got burned in the 3 years prior.<br /><br />Complain all you want about the evils of grading but everyone of us is benefiting from the concept. Yes, even you Barry. You think you would be getting the numbers in your auctions for the same cards if ungraded? <br /><br />Greg

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Greg- mixed blessing doesn't mean it is bad; it means some good, and some bad.<br /><br />Grading has done a lot of good things for the hobby, but it's still a flawed system that needs a lot of fine tuning. And yes, I do get higher auction prices with graded cards. No disagreement there.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Barry<br /><br />You may get higher prices now with graded as opposed to raw, but my question would be what if grading never occurred and everything stayed the same as the screwdown days. Do you think the money spent on cards would have enjoyed the same ride?<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You asked the question to Barry, and he certainly might give his answer, but I don't think the card hobby would have grown the way it has without grading. Corey, Barry, and I all agree that we would like to see an "authentication only" service...with no number grades. An AUT grade, in that arena, wouldn't carry a stigma the way they do today with respect to knowing there is an issue where the card couldn't receive a number. There is no doubt there is some more comfort in buying cards due to grading. (I don't need to caveat that statement as it's a give there are problem cards in holders)..regards

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Posted By: <b>Dave Haas</b><p>Additional good news. I received the money order from GAI today for my Ruth card. <br /><br />Dave

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Posted By: <b>Robert</b><p>I have never understood why Beckett (and now GAI that I am aware of) are even allowed to sell authenticated/graded items. I agree with Matt and Barry that this poses a huge conflict of interest, which is even greater for Beckett. At least GAI only authenticates/grades and then sells items. Beckett also prices the same items that they are selling. I still remember in the early 2000's how Beckett would spotlight a card or cards, and miraculously they would skyrocket over the next couple of price guides (i.e. '98 SPx Millwood and Ordonez RC's). These 2 cards shot up around 800% over the span of 2 price guides. If a company has the ability to influence the grade (in the case of GAI), or additionally the "current market price" (in the case of Beckett), it is the parallel to insider trading in stocks. There is a reason that is not allowed ... a conflict of interest. Outside of that, I hope GAI is back up and running for good. I have rarely used their card grading, but have used their authentication services for literally 1000's of items and have great respect for the GAI core founders/operators. If you made it this far in my post, thank you for reading my ramblings.<br /><br />-Robert.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Steve- there were serious problems before the advent of the grading services, but most of them had to do with unsuspecting buyers getting stuck with trimmed and altered cards.<br /><br />Had the services formed just to examine these cards for alterations, and third party grading had never even entered the picture, I still believe the hobby would have grown considerably. The only thing that wouldn't exist would be the set registry. That is a money generator for sure, but it's not every collector's cup of tea.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I know you aren't saying this, but I am also chiming in, that no one begrudges the PSA Registry thingy. If folks want to do it and it's good clean fun...and keeps the participants off of the streets at night, more power to them....All collectors compete a little in some form or fashion, as we all want the best we can get with the resources we have to use....regards<br /><br />edited to get back onto topic.....it's only to be seen how GAI plays out...they need to probably cut some overhead and have a new game plan for PR...

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I realize the set registry is important for a certain segment of the hobby, and that people like to compete. And I don't begrudge it. I'm simply saying the authenticating service that is available far outweighs the importance of the grading service.<br /><br />Let me offer an example. Suppose you went to a show and bought a raw card that the dealer called Excellent, and you sent it to be graded and it came back Very Good. No question you would take somewhat of a financial hit, but you might be able to examine the card at the dealer's table and determine for yourself that it's not properly graded and isn't worth buying.<br /><br />Now suppose you bought a NR MT card raw for big bucks and you sent it in to be graded and it turned out to be trimmed, altered, recolored, or whatever. It would be virtually worthless and you would take a huge loss. And even if you examined it yourself you might not be able to see any evidence of tampering.<br /><br />That's why having third party grading is a good thing, but having third party authenticating is so much more important.<br /><br />I admit my ability to detect alterations on a card approaches zero. I don't know what I would do without third party assistance. But I graded my own cards for twenty years and I bet I could still do it with pretty accurate (though not perfect) results. But that skill has been taken away from me. Nobody would care how I graded a card when they can just read what it says on the label. I accept this but if the time ever came where anybody would listen to my assessment, I would be happy to offer it.

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Posted By: <b>BCD</b><p>as absurd as it is has really helped sellers of cards and coins that's for certain.<br />The logical part of it is you can use the program template of the registries as a back up inventory as well as a slight added insurance as you may recover stolen items by a paper trail when in the holders.<br /><br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/publishedset.aspx?s=34468&ac=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/publishedset.aspx?s=34468&ac=1</a><br /><br />fun~ but expensive!<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Barry I'm not sure I fully understand your point regarding just authenticating. The major graders do that and grade the card. I agree the authentication part is as valuable as the grading part. However with that said i have seen many (in all holders) overgraded and undergraded too. How many times have we cracked and submitted a card and got two different results? As long as they are in the ballpark I have no problem, it is when cards have issues (centering, marks etc) that I need to really check a card out. A card with a small pencil mark on the reverse will be IMO nicer then one where the marks creat a mustouche&lt;sp&gt; on the players face.<br /><br />As for the registry I have a few sets on the registry and basically use it soley as a checklist and as a way to exhibit the cards too via a picture.<br /><br />By the way, Dave glad you got your MO from GAI. <br /><br />maybe I can get them to cover the cost of the 1955 1st graded Spahn in 7.5 I cracked out of the case and resubmitted to PSA that came back trimmed?<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>That is the whole point about authenticating and not putting a grade on the slab. I think Barry means (as he and I have spoken about it many times) that we would like a service to just tell us if a card is good ie ..not tampered with...and leave off the numerical grade. take care

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Exactly. I took pride in learning to grade carefully and accurately. Now I've lost complete interest. Why should I bother?

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Having the grading co.'s authenticate only, is a pretty good idea...but people involved in the card registries would scream...now it's sounding like a great idea. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter C.