Should Registration Factor Into the Grade?

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>A card with bad registration would seemingly be much less desirable then one with proper registration. As an example, I'd much prefer a card with creasing then looking at this, which gives me a headache:<br /><img src="http://images.auctionhelper.com/images/9518/auto20/357.jpg"><br /><br />So, the question is, should/do PSA/SGC take registration into consideration when grading a card? You would think this would be something PSA has a qualifier for, as technically, bad-registration is at the same level of factory defect as OC/MC.

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Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>It looks like Goudey made an attempt for the first 3D card..You ever try looking at it with those special glasses?

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Should be worth twice as much. Getting two Lou's in one! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p><img src="http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1072156/2/istockphoto_1072156_3_d_glasses.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Matt,<br /><br />Registration problems make me crazy. I think they should be reflected in the grade, but to be honest it almost doesn't matter to me. If a card is off-register, I don't like it even if it has graded well in all other respects. One of those things, I guess. Some people are really twitchy about paper loss. Me? If a card is even a little off register I can't help but notice it. It's like having the audio not match up to the picture on TV.<br /><br />I'd rather see it as a qualifier than just reflected in grade. Then I wouldn't have to go past the description "PSA 9 RG" to know that I don't want it. <br /><br />J

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I think PSA does have a qualifier for such cards. OF Out of foucus. I have not seen many but they do use it from time to time<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>Call me odd but I really like those type of cards and would prefer them for my collection...anything different and out of the ordinary. The fact it's Lou makes it that much better!<br /><br /><br />Kevin

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Steve - if ever there was a time of the PSA OF qualifier - wouldn't it have been the card above? How does SGC grade a card with EX+ corners and no creasing but awful registration?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Yes. The slab companies should discount grade for registration problems. <br /><br />In a way it is a centering problem, which they do consider. Some of the color runs don't line up with others, that is a partial centering problem. (A younger person would have said 'issue' instead of 'problem'.)

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>tricky question on how it should be graded. i mean, just looking at it i'd give it a "1", but thats how it came from the factory, so it makes you wonder if focus should play a role in the grade or not. definately having a qualifier seems like the right way to go IMO. <br /><br />Not sure how SGC would grade it!<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Brian E.</b><p>I think that registration should be a factor in grading<br /><br />Brian E.

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Posted By: <b>Kenneth A. Cohen</b><p>I too think that graders focus too much on the condition of the cardboard. Old Judges are a good example. I've recently purchased a couple of low grade OJs with beautiful image quality - but with back damage or pin holes. To me, and to most OJ collectors I think, such a card is more desireable than an EX-MT with a cloudy picture. The problem is that numerical grades are supposed to be attributed on a technical basis. We already bristle at the level of subjectivity inherent in grading. Injecting aesthetic, "non technical" factors such as registration will make it even moreso, which leads to the old cliche - Buy the card, not the holder.

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>I think grading companies do account for registration - however, it is merely one factor out of many that are considered and its not weighted any greater than a crease, a wrinkle or centering.<br /><br />Here is the grading guidelines for SGC - poorer registration is first mentioned at the sgc 40 level. This leads me to believe that a card with sharp corners and poor registration (such as the one above) would grade no better than a 40 (much like a card with sharp corners and a tiny spot of paperloss will generally grade no better than a 30 by sgc).<br /><br />40 VG 3: 90/10 or better centering, corners more rounded--but not excessive, stronger creasing may exist. Poorer focus, registration, and discoloration, and staining are more noticeable. <br /><br />30 GOOD 2: Centered 90/10 or better. This card usually exhibits one or more of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tear, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss. <br /><br />20 FAIR 1.5: Centered 90/10 or better. This card usually exhibits several of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, a small portion of the card may be missing. <br /><br />10 POOR 1: This card usually exhibits many of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, small portions of the card may be missing. <br />

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Oh - and with respect to the Gehrig shown above, unless there is something wrong with the back, that card is a solid 3 absent the registration issue.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>You're odd!<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Conceptually a grade should reflect a card's desirability -- the higher the grade, the more desirable to the collector. Assuming one agrees with that statement, then I don't see how a card's registration should not factor into the mix. With that said, as we see with the case of blank-backed photographic cards (e.g., N172's, where a card with amazing photo quality and a glue stain on the verso can grade lower than a card with photo tones so light you can barely make out the player but with a clean back), common sense doesn't always prevail.

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Basically, this question is should the appearance of the card affect the grade. If it doesn't, other than verifying authenticity, what purpose does grading have? For Old Judge cards, in my opinion, other that verifying authenticity, slabbing does not make sense since photo clarity is not factored into the equation.

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Posted By: <b>ItsOnlyGil</b><p>Gentlemen, imho statements such as "I think grading companies do account for registration - however, it is merely one factor out of many that are considered and its not weighted any greater than a crease, a wrinkle or centering". <br />are intermingling factors relevant to card preservation with those associated with card manufacture.<br />These are two seperate subjects, and should be addressed seperately (with dual grades).<br /><br />ie, seperate elements of manufacturing inadequacies, which affect value<br />from those of wear/damage, which also affect value.<br /><br />This grading is already too much of an alchemist's brew.

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>uh...yeah what he said

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Posted By: <b>Joe Jones</b><p>Here is a card that has an issue which is similar to bad registration. It was downgraded because of this. There is no creasing or paperloss.<br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/joejo20/misc/large/img007.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>I think Beckett use to do a terrific (and the best) job of breaking down a cards grade by having the 4 subgrades of centering, corners, edges, and surface. When purchasing a card online, three of the subgrades can usually be seen from a normal scan. However, the "surface" subgrade is the one that I felt was very helpful, as seing a wrinkle or light crease or poor registration is sometimes tough to see in an online scan. <br /><br />But, BVG holders no longer break down grades into 4 categories, which I thought set them apart from the rest. Although, the holders are almost bomb proof and chances of tampering are much lower. But I wish they'd bring back the subgrades. Or as someone else mentioned, maybe a few words to say why a card got a certain grade. <br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>G. Maines</b><p>And this card should grade about vg/ex for preservation,<br />and about p for manufacturing.<br />However, to some, the manufacturing defect is desireable.<br />In which case, the market will identify the value.<br />But the grade can be precise.