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11-13-2007, 11:03 AM

Posted By: steveAmongst my recent PSA submission I had two SGC breakouts - hoping for the bump in grade - boy, the SGC cards looked very nice and perhaps undergraded. I will not do the "crossover" already encapsulated by other grading company as I think the chance is slim to none to get a higher grade. Rather, I crack out and submit raw. However, makes for a nervy time busting it out safely and then the possible result of it not being holdered due to problem. Card #1 - was SGC 86, now PSA 8 Card #2 - was SGC 84, now PSA 8 Woo hoo! Steve. And thanks for all your folks' question help.

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11-13-2007, 11:10 AM

Posted By: sagardSo who got the grades right? I'd be very interested in the issue/cards as well as some scans if possible. Congrats on the bumps.

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11-13-2007, 11:44 AM

Posted By: AnonymousI've submitted a bunch of SGC 50's to PSA and LEFT THEM IN THE SGC CASES... Many of them came back higher as a PSA 5 thus you do not need to crack them out!

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11-13-2007, 12:14 PM

Posted By: Scott SI just submitted to SGC a 1922 E121 with a slight bit of paper loss on the back (otherwise a Near Mint appearance on the front) which got a PSA 1 (and I felt way undergraded) and it got an SGC 40. I submitted it still in the PSA case.

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11-13-2007, 01:04 PM

Posted By: Fred CThe debate starts anew... What is the difference in perceived value of a card in different grades? What is the same card in SGC86 (7.5) worth as compared to the same card in PSA8 grade? What is the same card in SGC84 (7.0) worth as compared to the same card in PSA8 grade? I honestly believe that grading companies should certify authenticity and list deficiencies (marks, creases) that may be barely visible. Assigning numerical grades does nothing but offer a subjective opionion about the card. This opinion is then used to either jack up somebody's ego or the price of the card. In a lot of cases we know that the grading companies MISS something or are a bit too generous in their grading. This generosity does nothing positive for the hobby. Basically, it gives the owner of the card a license to steal because now the perceived value of the card is much greater than what it should be. I could go on and on and on...

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11-13-2007, 01:08 PM

Posted By: Joe D.without getting too personal (about your particular cards).... but responding to your crack and submit, instead of cross in the holder.... lets say you had a card worth $5K or above in that SGC 86 holder - would you crack and submit? I wouldn't have the guts to crack it.

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11-13-2007, 03:08 PM

Posted By: steveJoe D - I do agree with you - I would not have the guts to crack open an SGC 86 worth $5k. Honestly, my limit on this play would be $1k - if and only if the card looked definitely full cut. Although my collection specializes in preWWII, these two cards I cracked/resubmitted to PSA were: 1957 Topps B.Roby RC SGC 84, and 1967 Topps Hank Aaron SGC 86 - both now PSA 8's. steve.

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11-13-2007, 11:16 PM

Posted By: Lee BehrensI would like to see what happens if you try to go the other way PSA to SGC. I think what this shows is that PSA is not as tough on the grading as SGC. To me it is a selling point for them, they have people that buy the holders and the bigger the number the more money the owner gets when selling, which means he will more than likely return the business to PSA thus they continue to do business as long as these people continue to buy the number and not the card. Another point I have is that I will not purchase a caard I know that was crossed over. There is one card in particular I know of that I would like very much but when I first saw it, it was residing in a GAI 3.5, next I saw it raw, and now it resides in a SGC 50 holder. I have a suspicion that one of the sides might be trimmed and the fact it was trying to be sold raw tells me there is a possiblity the card was sent in and rejected, resubmitted and than received the grade it has now. Oh, it's grading fun, Lee

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11-14-2007, 04:44 AM

Posted By: AnonymousTypically... SGC to PSA is worse. On pre-war material SGC is a much easier grader than PSA. 99% of the N172 Old Judges that are graded SGC 10 almost always cross to PSA Authentic. For example... there are tons of Old Judges with holes punched in them, SGC will still give a grade of 10 to these, however PSA will never as the card has been altered and thus is AUTHENTIC only.

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11-14-2007, 04:58 AM

Posted By: leonFoodle.net- the reason PSA rejects many Old Judges as trimmed is they don't know what the hell they are doing in that series. Period. Ask anyone that has collected it for many, many years. The cuts are all over the place.....PSA is used to grading newer stuff with more evenly cut edges. I sent in a Delehanty, to PSA, and it came back trimmed. I sent it to SGC and it came back an 84...and another board member bought it from me. From my limited knowlege I would say there is a 99.9% chance the card wasn't trimmed. It had an angle cut and PSA didn't understand it....regards

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11-14-2007, 05:03 AM

Posted By: Jason DuncanI have had GAI 3 come back SGC 10. I have had GAI 4.5 come back SGC 60. I have had SGC 40 come back GAI 4. I have had SGC 50s come back PSA 5. I have had GAI 3s come back SGC 20s. Point here is to buy the card not the holder in any case. I find SGC is most consitant with their standards. I think anything is ossible in any given situation. Jason

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11-14-2007, 06:02 AM

Posted By: Joe D.I am with you.... at or above $1K i would be hesitant to crack. I have cracked out PSA and submitted to SGC and received worse grades. I have cracked out SGC and submitted to PSA and received worse grades. I have cracked out GAI and submitted to SGC and received better grades. My conclusion - since each grading company has more than one grader - they each have a range of opinions. You can catch a picky SGC grader and catch a picky PSA grader - or you can get luckier with either one. Just my opinion based on limited experience.

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11-14-2007, 10:43 AM

Posted By: EricLeon - Yes I agree with you on them not being aware of the cuts of the Old Judges... but from another standpoint which I mentioned... how about a card with a hole punched in it? SGC still gives them a 10... PSA marks them as authentic. Now I'm not saying that it should be one or the other, but the point is that the two companies don't agree!

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11-15-2007, 12:30 PM

Posted By: dan mckeeI cracked my 1933 Goudey lajoie out of an SGC holder. High value but oh darn, I didn't resubmit it, I slid it in my 1933 Goudey set binder in a 9 pocket sheet where there was a hole for number 106 !!!!!

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11-15-2007, 12:56 PM

Posted By: James FeaginI did have a 1933 Goudey Gehrig PSA 3 come back a SGC 50 and a T205 Mathewson BGS 2.5 come back a SGC 40. Upgrades have happened with those guys!

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11-15-2007, 06:27 PM

Posted By: Dan Paradis"Typically... SGC to PSA is worse. On pre-war material SGC is a much easier grader than PSA. 99% of the N172 Old Judges that are graded SGC 10 almost always cross to PSA Authentic. For example... there are tons of Old Judges with holes punched in them, SGC will still give a grade of 10 to these, however PSA will never as the card has been altered and thus is AUTHENTIC only." Interesting.. I alreadly tried crossing this over to SGC, no dice. I finally cracked it out and sent it in. I hope I get the same grade, but I don't think I will. How do you like how the card sits nicely in the nice PSA holder? Dan <img src="http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/danp306/Brouthers1887OldJudgePSA2.jpg">