Vintage Baseball Photos

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Greetings, I was wondering if any of my fellow vintage Baseball card collectors consider vintage Baseball photos actual cards? I do not consider them cards by definition because they were not marketed as such. I would classify them as Vintage Baseball memorabalia. When I say photos I mean actual photos that were taken with a camera. I would imagine there are some that would predate the actual Baseball card rookie photos. Some comments, opinions would be appreciated. <br />Happy Collecting

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>I do not collect photos but would consider a real photo postcard to be a collectible item as the grading companies will grade these.

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Posted By: <b>Rhys Yeakley</b><p>Original photos by George Grantham Bain's News Service are about as close to cards as you can get in the photo world. Each of his images is copyrighted and can be looked up at the LOC I believe and they are generally about the size of a postcard or slightly smaller. A large portion of them have the players name etched into the negative and many are date stamped on the reverse as well. Here are a few examples.<br /><br />Rhys<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189637989.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638007.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638057.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638077.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638095.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638107.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638127.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189638154.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Thanks very much for the replies to this question. I am learning something every day. The photos you posted are awesome.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Cy</b><p>Hi ,<br /><br />Take a look at this link set up by Scott Forrest. He found pictures that were used for the cards made at a later date. It is a very nice link.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.homestead.com/runscott/T206Origins.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.homestead.com/runscott/T206Origins.html</a><br /><br />Cy

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>take a look at this photo. Does this appear to be a very collectible vintage Baseball photo? I don't think it would grade. The back has some glue or tape residue.<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189644227.JPG"> <br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1189644354.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The stamps show that photo is from 1936. The glue and paper on back don't lower the value. As they were used in the production newspapers and magazines, the back of news photos will often have various paper tags, notes, stamps, etc. The 2 Col on the Feller shows that the newspaper picture made from the photo would be two columns wide. None of these lowers the value.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>David, thank you very much for the information regarding these old photos. I was quite unaware that the value would be unaffected by the glue, etc. I was told the photo is actually from July 28th, 1936 just 9 days after his major league debut on July 19th. That is awesome for a Bob Feller fan. I have one last question regarding the photo. Are these photos very common or scarce to find? I look forward to your reply. Have a wonderful day.

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Many vintage TYPE I photos may be unique and I would definitely not consider them common at all. Manmy collectors believe that these might be the next big boom in the baseball collectibles industry.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>If this is "show and tell" this is one of my favorites:<br /><br /><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/jacklitsch1/WithYoung.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Phil, what do you mean Type1 photos? Originals?<br />Look forward to your reply.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>show what and tell who?

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Richard:<br /><br />Yes, that's correct. PSA/DNA now grades/authenticates photos and the highest grade is a TYPE I which is an original photo produced from the original negative within two years of the picture being taken.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>since PSA now grades original photos I wonder if they would be considered rookie cards if they pre-date any regular Baseball card issues? Makes for an interesting discussion.<br />Thanks

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>There are a lot of news photos floating around, but for each original photo there are rarely more than a couple to a few in existence. Yours might be the only example. This is why grading is beside the point. It really doesn't matter if it grades a 3 or a 4, as it's likely the only one. You judge it by it's overall grade and presentation-- including artistry and clarity of the image. Whether or not a corner is dinged doesn't matter. <br /><br />Yours has both the date stamp and an International News Pictures stamp. These are highly desirable and prove the age. You don't need PSA/DNA to tell you how old it is-- the stamps do this for you. Many original photos don't have the date stamp-- so your stamp is an added bonus that gives you the exact year.<br /><br />Photos and baseball cards are different things. News photos were the behind-the-scenes production items, much like original art for cards. If the back of an original sketch for a Topps card has the artist's notes, not only does it not lower the value, it raises the value. It's a production item. Baseball cards were the final product, printed in the thousands and sold commercially. The reason for giving a 1-10 grade to a baseball card is there are some many examples of a particular card (2,000 T206 Hugh Jennings, 5,000 1984 Topps Tiffany Don Mattinglys) that grade is popularly used to differentiate between the mass population. If there is only one of your Bob Feller there's no need to give it a formal 1-10 grade. There's no higher, there's no lower. <br /><br />I have nothing against PSA/DNA authenticating photos, but I am strongly against them grading photos 1-10. You know why? Because people will start trimming and fixing photos to get a higher grade, where they would not have done this before. I can promise you that will put their 1-of-1 Sandy Koufax or Mickey Mantle photos into the paper cutter. Before anyone gave a 1-10 grade there was no need to "go for a 9," and it these same people wouldn't have done it before.<br /><br />Quick advice: if you see a Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb news photo in mint condition, with perfect razor sharp edges and corners, it's either a reprint or trimmed. In other words, Gem Mint 10 1936 Bob Feller news photos isn't something a collector should be aspiring to. Good looking 1936 Bob Feller news photos but with some honest wear is what a collector should be aspiring to.

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Richard:<br /><br />Unfortunately, PSA will authenticate the photos but will not holder them which I think creates a clear difference between them being cards/rookie cards and simply photos. I had a long debate with them about that as it pertained to a Josh Gibson snapshot photo that I was looking to add to my HOF RC collection. I ended up selling the photo instead.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Phil, let me get this straight...you sold your Gibson photo because PSA would not deem it a card and put it in a holder?

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Posted By: <b>Phil Garry</b><p>Dan:<br /><br />Not exactly, I would not expect PSA to classify the item as a card but they do holder similar photos to my Gibson as long as they fit in one of their size holders as long as they are autographed. Of course, my Gibson photo was not autographed so they refused to holder it. Since every item in my HOF Rookie Collection is in a graded card holder by either PSA or SGC, the Gibson did not meet that criteria so I sold it and moved on.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Phil, you're just going to have to break down and buy that Toleteros Gibson. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />on the plus side they seem to be going down in price in recent years....on the negative side though they are still way out of my range.

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Hope everyone's doing well over here. Every time I check, it seems the card market is growing price-wise exponentially. Amazing.<br /><br />Scott &lt;=== trying to save so I can jump back in

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Posted By: <b>greatAlan</b><p>try this links <a href="http://www.2-clicks-sportsmemorabilia.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.2-clicks-sportsmemorabilia.com</a>. They have different kinds of collectibles for sports. I found many collectibles here when I visited this site lately...

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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>Hey Scott -<br /><br />Change your login name back to "runscott" and get rid of the "walkscott". Then we'll know you're really back! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Rob M.