Sweet Caporal P2 pins

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Does anyone have any information regarding the number of variations known for the back advertisements on these pins? I have three pins...and three different backs.

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Posted By: <b>Shawn Chambers</b><p>John,<br /><br />I wish I had an answer, but I don't. This is a great question. I have recently begun thinking about adding some P2s to my collection. I would love to see the three different backs you have if you have a way to scan them.<br /><br />Shawn

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I know there's color variations with RED being tough I think........I know Bob Marquette collects them heavily. I've got about 1/2 of the set. I'll take a look at mine and let you know what I have as far as backs<br />

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>John- I happened to notice Tom's post and it got me thinking, did you mean color variations or printing variations for the paper backs on the pins? I had the complete set minus 3 but never noticed any difference in what was written on the back so I assume you are talking about color. I know it may be the toughest color but the white and red paper backs seem to be the most coveted although I have no clue how many of the pins exist with which backs. <br />As far as the pins go, Scott Mosley and I have for years tried to convince anyone from SCD on down that the Mullin (Mullen) large letter pin with black hat is a phantom and has never existed. I believe someone accidentally called a small letter black hat a large letter black hat (PSA does this all the time) and thus the fallacy was born. There is a small letter black hat and large letter white hat. I believe Bob Lemke finally agreed the last year he was with SCD and it is now gone. The pin was a phantom, much like the blue letter on the hat T207 Davis, a different story for a different day.<br />The five toughest pins to find, IMHO, are Pelty, Scanlon, Maclean large letters, Abbatichio and Doyle large letters but everyone disagrees on all but the Pelty. It may be that his pin is tough but because he was Jewish it makes it almost impossible to find, much like the T207 Pelty.<br />

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Thanks guys,<br /><br />I look forward to seeing a few examples. Bob, I guess that I considered both (color and printing). I have two scans, one is my Matty the other is a Matty that ended on eBay last week. I do not have a scan available of the red printed ad. Notice the pin in the PSA holder is from Factory 25 in Virginia while my pin is from Factory 42 in NC. Most of the pins that I have seen are from Factory 42.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1192962218.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1192962238.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Alan Elefson</b><p>Hi-<br /> I posted about the exact same question you are asking several months ago. At the time, I had several P2s with various backs (a few red, and different factory numbers, same as your examples), and I believe I was told there is no known correlation between red and black backs and factory numbers (I do not rememberthe exact thread title but it had P2 in it). I suppose a large study of P2s might garner such information, as well as a better understanding of other aspects of production, but at least to my knowledge (which is quite limited) has never been done.<br /> Speaking of large studies, this board together could amass incredible information about various sets by commissioning board wide surveys. The ones done so far on T206 have been incredible. If different folks created at least one per week the burden would be spread more evenly. Even someone like myself, who does not collect sets, would volunteer to start a thread even if it is for a set I do not have a card of. Of course I believe the first thing we need to do is identify which sets are most important to survey (and for what reasons) <br /> Sorry for the above rambling. In a short response to your post from a limited knowledge perspective, there is no correlation between color backs and factory numbers, however there might be between players and factory numbers, or something else, or nothing at all. Only a large study/survey will solve this question in my limited knowledge opinion.<br />Alan Elefson<br />aelefson@hotmail.com<br />

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Posted By: <b>Tim Rhinehart</b><p>Hi John. The style on the left with the design at the bottom is uncommon (in fact I only have 4 or 5 out of the 140 pins I own) and is even rarer still with red lettering. The style of back in the Matthewson scan is far and away the most common. However, there are color variations of the paper itself (with black printing). I have about seven red backings and I still may have a blue-green backing. The pins have two manufacturers, Whitehead & Hoag & the Ehrman Co. The Ehrman pins are far less common. Thinking out loud, I wonder if each manufacturer produced every player, are all of the players available with each back, etc.?

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>John, I just took a look at mine and I have 5 distinctly different backs. There were some slight differences in shade on back but these are all very different. The Ehrman is a Wheat LL (considered one of the tougher P2's)<br />-Rhett<br /><img src="http://starsofthediamond.com/p2backs.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>David R</b><p>Here are some of mine including a red back and the Mullen dark hat (small letters I think):<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1193083798.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Bill Todd</b><p>David,<br /><br />What's the back on the Mullen? The pin looks much longer than on the other P2s I've seen. Or is it just bent oddly? [Edited to add obvious question.]<br /><br />Bill

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Posted By: <b>David R</b><p>The back is a Sweet Caporal Fact 42. The point part was apparently broken off so someone at one point put a piece of wire that is curled around the inner lip and extended out so you can pin it on. This is the small letter, correct?

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Posted By: <b>Tim Rhinehart</b><p>Yes the Mullen is the small letter version. The large letter has a White Cap and is misspelled Mullin

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Here is the LL Mullin.<br />-Rhett<br /><img src="http://www.geocities.com/rhettmatthew_37/mullinp2.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Jim Harkins</b><p>John<br /><br />I have 10 different backs:<br /><br />1. Whitehead & Hoag Co. Factory 25, 2nd Districk VA Red Paper, Black ink<br />2. Whitehead & Hoag Co. Factory 42, 4th Districk NC Gray Paper, Black ink<br />3. Whitehead & Hoag Co. Factory 42, 4th Districk NC White Paper, Black ink<br />4. Ehrman Co. Milford NH Factory 25, 2nd Districk VA White Paper, Black ink<br />5. Ehrman Co. Milford NH Factory 42, 4th Districk NC Red Paper, Black ink<br />6. Ehrman Co. Milford NH Factory 42, 4th Districk NC White Paper, Black ink<br />7. Scroll, Factory 25, 2nd Districk VA White Paper, Black ink<br />8. Scroll, Factory 42, 4th Districk NC White Paper, Red ink<br />9. Blank Back, white Paper<br />10. Blank Back, Red Paper<br />

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Thanks guys for all the feedback. Its fairly apparent that there are a number of different back variations in this set. Eventually it would be great to determine if certain backs are exclusive to individual pins/players.