Miscuts vs. Trimmed

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />There was a time when miscuts were more valuable than trimmed cards. By miscuts I'm talking about cards that are diamond cut or otherwise miscut by the factory. However, with the relatively new authentic grade by the grading companies, it seems like both miscuts and trimmed are approaching equal value. Is this a good trend?<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>IMO a miscut should almost always be worth more than a trimmed card (depending on severities). I am sure there could be exceptions. I also think that most folks would rather have a miscut rather than a trim....so the demand is higher which always relates to a higher value.....

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>miscut = unaltered<br />trimmed = altered<br /><br />I prefer unaltered cards.

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>My K-Bats is miscut....but it commands full value pricing, unlike a trimmed card. I do not agree with your observation, Peter.

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Posted By: <b>brian p</b><p>Before the grading companies started with 'authentic' grading, you used to be able to pick up nice-looking, correctly identified raw trimmed cards for small coin. The slabbing of trimmed cards has authenticized (man is this a word?)trimmed cards in the eyes of the investor/collector, and thus the price has risen on them over the last few years. Whether or not they will raise to the levels of miscut cards remains to be seen...<br /><br />Brian

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...trimmed and miscut cards are approaching the same value is, to me, like saying cards with rounded corners are approaching the same value as cards with sharp corners.

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Brian: Words are valid if they convey a thought whether or not they have been certified by the Merriam Webster Authentification Service (or one of the lesser word slabbers), or whether they have not yet achieved such recognition.<br /><br />If the price of trimmed cards is rising, as you state; I vote for the following subcatagories of trimmed cards, because I do not feel that "trimmed" is a generic catagory, and the nature of the trim job is a paramount consideration with relationship to the desireability of the card, and to me, impacts its value:<br /><br />- cards trimmed with the intent to deceive<br />- cards trimmed to remove objectionable advertising by the original card owner<br />- cards trimmed for convenience (such as to fit something) by the original owner<br />- cards deemed trimmed although they are hand cut and reflect the cutter's view of appropriate cutting choices (such as borderless Orange borders cards)<br />- cards trimmed for asthetic reasons, including trimming to remove the background and other infrequent owner optional hacking of the card.<br />- Other possible, currently unidentified, catagories.<br /><br />Gil

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Just remember there are a lot of trimmed cards residing in slabbed holders and a lot of cards have been rejected for being "trimmed" which were not. Cases in point include a) some of those PSA 8 T206s and b) some gorgeous T213 Coupons which were bought 25 years ago directly from the old man in Louisiana who collected them and they went straight from the tobacco store to his shoebox to my collection.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />Normally I can tell the difference between a miscut and a trimmed card, but once in a while you see a card that could be either. That would pose a problem for a grader.<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i just dug up this old thread...<br /><br />i have to say Peter, this is a good topic. <br /><br />it is important to note, now that PSA & SGC slab trimmed (altered cards) as "authentic", it definitely gives added value, worth & life to such cards, which if raw, would be worth much less or almost next to nothing...i think the added value (whether it's a well earned value or falsley perceived is debateable) stems from a sense of confidence that PSA or SGC deem the card authentic/genuine...and on certain cards, that is all a collector really needs to see or hear...<br /><br />i think specifically, you will see more of a noticable jump in value on rare variations, rare backs, etc. which are slabbed as such...because collectors will want and be satisfied with having a mere "authentic" example...(i.e. trimmed T206 Drum backs, Cracker Jack Jacksons, rare Old Judges, rare cabinet cards, etc...)

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Posted By: <b>Ken W.</b><p>Gil,<br /><br />I think you covered the reasons for trimming pretty darn completely. I would probably lump all the non-deceptive, original owner categories fairly close together in terms of affecting value. If the trimming was done merely for practical or aesthetic reasons because that is how the owner liked it, I would agree that the card should be considered "less" mutilated then one that was altered solely for fraudulent purposes, imho. Problem is knowing the difference sometimes.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>guys- a trimmed card is a trimmed card...<br /><br />it's been altered from its original state after it left the factory...it's like being pregnant, you can't be "alittle" pregnant...you're either pregnant or not. period.

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Posted By: <b>1880nonsports</b><p>is altered. Altered is bad. Putting it in a slab and noting that it is altered but legitimate allows people that are less concerned with what makes up a card - or have price restrictions - to add something to their collection. The prices on these cards across the board have been rising as have the prices for ALL grades of cards. I own two trimmed cards that are the only examples I have been able to find for my sets. Because I'm an anal completest I felt them nessesary. Sometimes only low grade and trimmed examples are all that's available. I wouldn't buy a trimmed card under ANY other circumstance. A mis-cut card is all about eye-appeal and the scarcity issues. My general thought is that when you slab ANYTHING - there is an implied approval or ligitimacy irrespective of the label - human nature. This having been said; if the "look" of the cards are equal - the miscut card will always sell for more - because it is in fact "better" when compared to something that no longer exists in it's original state.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"I own two trimmed cards that are the only examples I have been able to find for my sets. Because I'm an anal completest I felt them nessesary. Sometimes only low grade and trimmed examples are all that's available."<br /><br />1880- well said, i agree totally...<br /><br />the only PSA "AUTHENTIC" card i own is a very clean T206 Broad Leaf 460, which has a slight hand-cut appearance...but obviously this card is extremely tuff to come by in any shape, so this example was more than acceptable to me...<br /><br />MS

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Posted By: <b>Ricky Y</b><p>I think on rare pieces I don't mind an "altered" trimmed card at all as long as its noted and sold as such and with the advent of grading it does have value. Purely from an aesthetic point of view...I hate miscut cards especially those diamond cuts where the picture is tilted vs those who have narrow borders on the top or on the sides...<br /><br />Ricky Y