"The Card"

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>Received my latest SMR today. Low and behold there is a full page ad from Bill Hughes. This being the same Bill Hughes that reported in "The Card" that the Wagner was trimmed and all of PSA was aware. When "The Card" first came out, there were several people that brushed off Bill's comments as being lies due sour grapes and jeasouly from a broken relationship. Apparently the relationship is fine. I wonder if his quoted comments from "The Card" can still be discounted? <br /><br />Too bad Rob Lifson was not heavily involved with the history of the Wagner card. With his spotless advertised integrity, everything would certainly have been well above board.

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Posted By: <b>ken McMillan</b><p>The book was very interesting and even if half of it were true, makes you wonder about the hobby. I personally think the Wagner is trimmed. For the money in the hobby, a little scarry

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>It would be very interesting to hear Rob's opinion of the Wagner, but I don't think that is likely to happen.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Rob is too smart to say anything about Wagner. If he did say something about the Wagner it's likely that it would only damage his reputation.<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Beyond the celebrity ownership and intrigue, I wonder how many serious Pre-War collectors consider the PSA8 Wagner as a card worthy of the attention it gets. I would guess surprisingly few. Sure this card lots of press coverage, but so does Paris Hilton (Paris has had plastic surgery, by the way). I attribute much of the attention and pricing to celebrity worship, including the fame and press of the card itself and the fame of its ownership ("Once owned by NHL great Wayne Gretzky" commonly trumpeted in national news articles). I guess that's what they call legend.

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>If I had the money, I would buy a low grade T206 Wagner just to have one and then spend the OTHER $2.5 or so million on a LOT of other cards and memorabilia. The $2.5 million is based on if "THE CARD" just recently sold for $2.8 or even $3 milion.<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>There's the old saying about people who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. I think a lot of people equate value with price. The PSA8 Wagner would not appear on ESPN and news pages or be the subject of a book if it didn't sell for a record amount of money. In these cases, the perceived value (news value) is directly based on the sale price.<br /><br />I think the the vast majority of collectors (I didn't say investors or eBay resellers) are well aware of price but most concerned with value.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>The Gretzky Wagner, we've discussed it many times, however, there is one loose end that still bothers me. In the last 2 times it was sold, why were these private sales instead of auctions?<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>Joseph Jesselli</b><p><i>It would be very interesting to hear Rob's opinion of the Wagner, but I don't think that is likely to happen.</i><br /><br />If you've read the book you pretty much have Rob's opinion. <br /><br />And also of note: a click on the latest forum poll will show that most readers<br />don't buy the "Mastro Commission" fairy tale about the PSA8 Wagner

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />I didn't see "Mastro Commission" fairy tale among the choices in the poll. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Do you care to elaborate?<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>Joseph Jesselli</b><p>Peter, <br /><br />It's just a silly takeoff on the Mills Commission and the myth about the birth of baseball.<br /><br />As for the poll, I'm just pointing out that most respondents agree with the premise of the book that the card is altered to some degree.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>I'll have to disagree with Joseph on this one; I think he was referring to the Warren Commission.

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Posted By: <b>Joseph Jesselli</b><p>Mark,<br /><br /><br />You must talking about the "Single Pack Theory"!

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Posted By: <b>TONY</b><p>If Mr Hughes thought it was trimmed, what was the opinion of the other graders on the card?<br />Wasn't Mervin Lee also one of the graders & a close ally of Mr Hughes?<br />I can't imagine those both not agreeing on the "condition" of the Wagner card<br />"If" both said the card was trimmed, who over ruled them? <br />& Why?<br />Now that would make a great Court TV show<br />better than OJ & his stupid memorabilia fiasco<br />This card may be one of the best investments Ever or The Worst<br />Maybe time will tell all

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>For some reason, the mysteries that surround the T206 Wagner does wonders for bumping up the price of the card. Starting with whether Honus actually wanted the card pulled from it's print-run to the present day trimming controversy.<br /><br />Without the mystery surrounding the card, the price of it would probably drop substantially.<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I agree with David Smith above... If i had the money... I'd buy a low grade example... or even two of them.<br /><br />The scarcity alone makes any authentic example of a T206 Wagner... "The Card"<br /><br />Having two no matter how low the grade makes them that much more important!