Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY

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Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>As rare as the T206 Joe Doyle NAT'L card is.....there are 11 other Subjects in the T206 issue that are just as rare.<br /><br />So, what do these 11 very rare T206's have in common with the Joe Doyle error ? They all have PIEDMONT 350 backs.<br /><br />These 150/350 subjects....as 150 cards....are not tough to find (except for Lundgren-Cubs); but, as 350 cards, they<br /> are virtually impossible to find. After years of sampling 1000's of these 11 Subjects, I have found only 1 or 2 cards of <br />each with the PIEDMONT 350 back. And, it is significant to note that none have been found with Sweet Caporal 350<br /> or Sovereign 350 backs.<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/cjoedoylenatl.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><br />Is this simply a coincidence that these 12 cards are extremely rare and exist with PIEDMONT 350 backs ? I do not<br />think so.....my speculation is that the Joe Doyle (NAT'L) and these 11 cards were on the same sheet.....And, that <br />when Quality Control quickly discovered the Joe Doyle error, American Lithograph discarded virtually all of the re-<br />maining sheets. Thereby, also rendering these 11 cards to become ASP (abreviated-short-prints). <br /><br />These 11 cards with PIEDMONT 350 backs should command a substantial premium in the hobby......<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)<br />Dahlen (Boston) <br />Ewing<br />Ganley<br />Tom Jones<br />Karger<br />Lindaman<br />Lundgren (Cubs)<br />Mullin (throwing)<br />Pastorius<br />Schulte (front view)....No PIEDMONT 350 has been confirmed....may be a 150-only card ?<br /><br /><br />Incidently, these 11 are also found with HINDU or El Principe de Gales....but, are seldom seen.<br /><br />Anyhow, if any Net54er's have any of these 11 cards with Piedmont 350....Sovereign 350....Sweet Caporal 350 backs,<br />please respond....your inputs will be greatly appreciated ? <br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/b11t206p350.jpg"><br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Ted<br />Here are my cousins.<br /><br />Conroy P150 (2)<br />Dahlen Sov 150 SC150 P150<br />Ewing P150 (2)<br />Ganley SC150 P150<br />Jones SC150 P150 Hindu<br />Karger SC150 P150<br />Lindaman SC150 P150<br />Lundgren P150 (2)<br />Mullin P350 EPDG<br />Pastorius SC150 P150<br />Schulte P150 (2)<br /><br><br>Drew

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Posted By: <b>Mike (18colt)</b><p>Only 150s for me.<br /><br />Notable, though, is that I have a Dahlen, Boston with a Hindu back. Any idea how "rarely" seen this card is with this back?<br /><br />Mike (18colt)

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for your inputs.<br /><br />Brown HINDU backs on these 11 cards are tough....and so are El Principe de Gales backs.<br /><br />However, neither of these backs approach the scarcity of the Piedmont 350 back on these 11 cards. It<br /> took me several years of scanning approximately 2000 cards of these 11 Subjects to find 7 of them with <br />Piedmont 350 backs.<br /><br />I'm still missing....Conroy....Tom Jones....Karger....Schulte<br /><br />And, I am skeptical that Schulte was ever printed with a Piedmont 350 back.<br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Here are a few of mine, I have Ewing and Karger I believe in 350, I’ll look for scans didn’t always scan front and back on them all. But my checklist says I have them, I remember seeing Jones somewhere eBay etc. after an auction ended.<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/ebay/large/Lindaman2.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/ebay/large/lindaman.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Ralph</b><p>Great post & very informative.Thanks Ted for sharing this as it all makes sense.As I said in another post the Doyle Printing dot should be considered part of the doyle boo-boo card & should command a higher value.Does the dot card lower the value of the Doyle error card?That's the question I ask but before I answer I'll need to give it more thought.Just my 2 cents <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JOHN W<br /><br />The Tom Jones (Piedmont 350), that I believe you are referring to was on ebay about 1 1/2 years ago and Brian Weisner won it.<br />I have not seen one since.<br /><br />Thanks for showing your Lindy's....I think I have all the possible Lindaman backs.....<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/alindamanb.jpg"><br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>RALPH<br /><br />You bring up two very interesting points regarding the Joe Doyle cards (NAT"L and Printer's Mark version).<br /><br />I cannot answer this, as I am just a collector who enjoys these cards, and loves to do research on them, <br />and sometimes will share this research with others.<br /><br /> Some "biggies" in the hobby would be better able to answer your questions regarding the impact on the<br /> $$$$ value of these cards.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>While you looking for your Ewing and Karger, see if you have a Lundgren (Cubs) with a Piedmont 350 back ?<br />Lundgren is tough enough with it's normal P 150 back....and, extremely rare with a P 350 or an EPDG back.<br /><br />Here's my Lundgren cards......<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/aclundgren.jpg"><br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>ockday</b><p>I have Karger with a Piedmont 350 back<br /><br />Alan

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>ALAN (ockday)<br /><br />Thanks for your Karger input.....you really have a very rare T206 card there.<br /><br />I'm hoping to expand my analysis of these T206's (with Piedmont 350 backs) with this Survey. And, this forum is the best platform<br />for doing this, since there are so many advanced and knowledgeable T206 collectors on it.<br /><br />So, how about it....guys and gals....check-out your T206's and see if you have any of these 11 cards with any "350" backs ?<br /><br />Thanks for your time and effort,<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Betty</b><p>Ted, Here are my backs of "the cousins"<br /><br />Conroy Fielding P150<br />Dahlen Boston SC150 Fact 30<br />Ewing SC 150 FAct 649 OP<br />Ganley EPDG<br />Tom Jones EPDG<br />Karger SC150 Fact 25<br />Lindaman P150<br />Lundgren-Chi P150<br />Mullin-Throwing P150<br />Pastorius P150<br />Schulte-Fr View P150<br /><br />Betty

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>I have none of these in a 350 currently. I think I remember having a Lindaman a while ago <br /><br />These cards/backs do seem quite rare. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BETTY<br /><br />Thanks for your inputs.<br /><br />Ganley and Tom Jones with EPDG backs are great acquistions, as they are not often seen on these cards.<br /><br />Regards,<br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Another factor regarding eight of these 150/350 Subjects having negligible representation in the 350 series, is their transitionary<br /> status in the 1909 season....while the T206 guys were planning which players to include in the 350 Series.<br />I'd be remiss, if I didn't provide this information as possible factors that could have influenced the T206 designers to discontinue<br /> printing these subjects with the assortment of T-brands that are available on all the other cards in this series.<br /><br /><br />Dahlen........playing career ends (1909)....Manager of Brooklyn (1910); and, is a short-print in 350-only Series<br /><br />Ewing.........traded from Cinc. to Phila (NL), Jan 1910<br /><br />Ganley........traded from Wash. to Phila (A's) (May 1909)<br /><br />T Jones.......traded from St Louis (AL) to Detroit (Aug 1909)<br /><br />Karger.........traded from Cinc. to Boston (AL), June 1909<br /><br />Lindaman.....career ends in 1909<br /><br />Lundgren......reassigned to Minor Leagues in 1909<br /><br />Pastorius......career ends in 1909<br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> I just returned from across the pond, so I'll get to the survey when I can. Talk to you soon. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS I know I have most of these with Hindu's....

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I will start with mine and the inputs that have been received......Date 9-10-07<br /><br /><br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............0.............0........... ....0<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............1.............1............ ..0<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............0. .............1<br /><br />Ganley...........................1..............0. .............1<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............0..............1..............1<br /><br />Karger............................1..............0 ..............0<br /><br />Lindaman........................2..............2.. ............1<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............1..............0.............. 1<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................1..............0......... .....1<br /><br />Pastorius........................1..............0. .............0<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0<br /><br /><br />Totals............................9............... 4.............6<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these 11 T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />Thanks for your time and effort,<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Iggy</b><p>I glanced at the old binder and I have one, a Lindaman Piedmont 350. A lower grade example which I possibly would have upgraded at some point, but for some strange reason it now seems really nice. Out of the 11 cards you mentioned I have nine (seven of them Piedmont 150's, one Sweet Caporal 150, and the above mentioned Piedmont 350). Hope that helps! <br /><br />-Lovely Day, Iggy...

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Ted, I have Dahlen (Bost) and Ganley with a Piedmont 350 back. Great research that you are doing.<br><br>

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Posted By: <b>Doug Moore</b><p>Ted:<br />I love these discussions, I've learned a great deal about my T206 set.<br />I have a Karger with a EPDG back.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> I have the following to add to the list:<br /><br />Hindu's:<br />Conroy<br />Dahlen<br />Ewing<br />Ganley<br />T Jones <br />Lindaman<br />Pastorius<br /><br /><br />Piedmont 350's:<br />T Jones<br />Lundgren<br /><br /><br />Nice thread... Hopefully I will add more when I have a chance to look this weekend. Be well Brian<br /> <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks.....BRIAN W.....DOUG.....ELLIOT.....IGGY for all your inputs. They will be tallied in the Updated Survey today.<br /><br />Also, there is a changing of the "guard" on two of these Piedmont 350 "cousins"....as new inputs have dictated this.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Very interesting inputs posted here and one forum member has emailed me with some very revealing inputs.....namely Conroy and Pastorius<br /> with Sweet Caporal 350 backs. So, this may eliminate these two from being Piedmont 350 (only) "cousins". The only Piedmont 350 back, so<br /> far, identified on Pastorius is mine. And, I think Scot Reader has a Conroy (fielding) with a Piedmont 350 back. <br /><br />I will substitute these two with a couple of "bench-warmers"....Ames (hands/chest) and Larry Doyle (throwing). These two cards have been<br /> historically considered as 150/350 Subjects. Scot Reader and I are virtually convinced that these two Subjects are "150-only" cards.....but,<br /> I'll throw them into the mix and let's see if any of you Net54er's can disprove our theory, by reporting either of these 2 cards with 350 backs. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/ameslarrydoyle.jpg"><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/b11t206p350.jpg"><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-11-07<br /><br /><br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............0..............0<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............0.............1........... ....0..............1<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............2.............2............ ..0<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............0............. .0<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1<br /><br />Ganley...........................2..............1. .............1<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............1..............2..............1<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............1<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............4.. ............1<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............3..............0.............. 1<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................1..............0......... .....1<br /><br />Pastorius........................1..............1. .............0..............1<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................17..............1 2.............7<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We've gotten off to a good start......Thanks for your time and effort,<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Ewing = Sov 150<br />Mullin = SC 150/30<br /><br />sorry, no rare backs for me <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Rob....that's fine, thanks for checking out your T206's.<br /><br /><br />And, 2 "readers" of Net54 have emailed me with their inputs on these cards; they are.....<br /><br />Karger.....EPDG<br /><br />Mullin.....Epdg<br /><br />and, No new Piedmont 350 cards of these 13 subjects.<br /><br />Thanks everyone....but, I expected more inputs from posters by now. So far, I'm not sure if you are proving my point<br />by not responding (as you do not have these tougher backs on these cards)........or just not interested ? ?<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> I have both Ames and Doyle with Hindu backs, but neither with Piedmont 350's to my knowledge. I will go through my lesser condition commons over the weekend to make sure. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS I have seen the Mullin card with a Piedmont 350 back on EBAY, but I'm not sure I saved a scan. Art probably has one...

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br /><br />I have Conroy (Fielding) with Piedmont 350. Just lucky I guess. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>Ed McCollum</b><p>After the recent sale, don't have it now, but did on July 3, when I scanned it to place on eBay.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>I also have a Conroy SC350, (but it sure isn't a pretty one.)<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/T-206Conroy.jpg"><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/T-206ConroyB-4.jpg"><br /><br /><br />Ed, Somebody else must have gotten that Ewing. It wasn't me.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It never ceases to amaze me on how many HINDU cards you keep coming up with. You must have over a 100 of them ?<br /><br />Anyhow, I'm willing to bet you the biggest T-bone steak in North Carolina....that you will not come up with Piedmont 350<br />cards of Ames (hands/chest) or Larry Doyle (throwing).<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JIM VB<br /><br />No problem with your Conroy....information matters, condition is immaterial in these surveys.<br /><br />Thanks everyone for your inputs....I also received inputs via emails and I incorporate all the<br /> data when I upgrade the this Survey.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>I have all in Pied and SC 150's with the addition of<br />T. Jones (St. Louis) EPDG<br />V. Lindaman EPDG<br />Mullin (throw) EPDG

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-13-07<br /><br /><br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............1.............1........... ....0..............2<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............3.............3............ ..0<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............1............. .0<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1<br /><br />Ganley...........................2..............1. .............1<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............1..............2..............2<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............2<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............4.. ............2<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............3..............0.............. 1<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................1..............0......... .....3<br /><br />Pastorius........................2..............2. .............0..............1<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................20..............1 6............12<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We've gotten off to a good start......Thanks for your time and effort,<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Ted<br /><br />My bench warmers.<br /><br />Ames P150(2)<br />Doyle P150 SC150<br /><br /><br /><br /><br><br>Drew

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Posted By: <b>David R</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />I have Karger, Jones and Mullin with EPDG backs.<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>Hi Ted,<br />Just got this in.<br /><br />Thanks for your great research. <br />Rick<br /><br /><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/buymycards/pastoriious.jpg"> <img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g9/buymycards/pastoriious001.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Seam</b><p>So out of all of the t206 cards in the set which one is the rarest?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hello Ted and all,<br /><br />Here's what I have, relative to this:<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest) SC 350 fac 30<br /><br />Conroy (fielding) P 150<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston) SC 150 fac 30<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing) SC 150 fac 25<br /><br />Ewing SOV 150 <br /><br />Ganley P 150<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis) P 150<br /><br />Karger SC 150 fac 30<br /><br />Lindaman SOV 150<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs) P 150<br /><br />Mullin (throw) P 150<br /><br />Pastorius P 150<br /><br />Schulte (front) P 150<br /><br /><br />Hope that helps...<br />

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Frank,<br /><br />Your Ames (HAC) SC 350/30 is the first instance of that subject in the 350 series that has been revealed in the last few years. A quite rare front/back combo!<br /><br />Given the importance of this find, can you double-check and confirm that your SC 350/30 example is Hands at Chest and not Hands Above?<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for your inputs....FRANK....RICK....DAVID....DREW....and two emails.<br /><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-15-07<br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............1.............1........... ....0..............2<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............3.............3............ ..0<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............1<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............1..............2..............3<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............3<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............4.. ............2<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................1..............0......... .....4<br /><br />Pastorius........................2..............2. .............0..............2<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................22..............1 7............15<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, don't stop now.<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I suspended entering Frank's SC 350 (Ames) input into the Survey......pending his confirmation.<br /><br />A similar experience was with an emailer, who provided an input of Doyle with an SC 350 back....and, upon a re-check, the emailer realized<br /> he had looked at his Joe Doyle card; instead Larry Doyle.<br /><br />However, if Frank has an Ames (hands/chest) with SC 350, he has a very rare back that you and I have not seen in at least 200+ samples.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hey guys...<br /><br />I feel like the knight in The Holy Grail... "sorry, sorry, got you all worked up over nothing."<br /><br />My Ames with his hands at his chest is a Piedmont 150. <br /><br />The hands over head is the Sov 350, which is quite common.<br /><br /><br />Forgiveness is begged.<br /><br />Frank W.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>No problem ole buddy.....once in awhile, we need some excitement here......and, you certainly caused a stir.<br /><br />You never really know what next will show up with this "Monster" of a BB card set....so, we cannot "discard"<br /> anything. <br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Rich H.</b><p>I've got the Dahlen Boston and Tom Jones in Piedmont 350.<br />I've got all the others in 150's.<br /><br /><br />Rich Ha<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Ted,<br />Another great survey! Here are my cards:<br /><br />Conroy Fielding SC30 150<br />Dahlen Boston P150<br />Ewing P150, SC25 150, SC30 150<br />Ganley P150, SC30 150<br />Tom Jones P150, SC30 150<br />Karger P150, SC30 150<br />Lindaman Sov150<br />Lundgren-Chi P150<br />Mullin-Throwing - EPDG, P150, P350, Sov150, SC25 150, SC30 150<br />Pastorius P150, SC30 150<br />Schulte-Fr View SC30 150, P150<br /><br />Art M.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for your inputs....ART M....RICH H....Net54 readers, who emailed me.<br /><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-17-07<br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............1.............1........... ....0..............2<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............4.. ............2<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5<br /><br />Pastorius........................2..............2. .............0..............2<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................25..............1 7............18<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, don't stop now.<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Not much help here, Trex, but here's my data:<br />Ames p150<br />conroy sc 150/30<br />dahlen sc 150/30<br />doyle p150<br />ewing p150<br />ganley sc 150/25<br />jones p150<br />karger p150<br />lindaman epdg<br />lundgren p150<br />mullin p150<br />pastorius p150<br />schulte sc 150/30<br /><br />great work Ted, as always,<br /><br />best,<br />barry

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Posted By: <b>Ron</b><p>Hi Ted,<br>Sorry for the delay in responding.<br>I have the Conroy fielding with Piedmont 350 back and<br>Lindaman with brown hindu back.<br>The rest are all either sweet cap 150 or Piedmont 150s<br><br>Ron

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks for your inputs....BARRY....RON....and Net54 readers, who emailed me.<br /><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-18-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................12<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............2.............1........... ....0..............2..................29<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................31<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................12<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................27<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................30<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................32<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4...............0..................3 1<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................36<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................25<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................33<br /><br />Pastorius........................2..............2. .............0...............2..................28<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................20<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................26.............18 ............19..............4.................346<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, let's have some more inputs ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Hi Ted,<br /><br />Beyond the two Pastorius SC350s that have been revealed on this thread, this front/back combo appeared three times in my eBay survey data. So I think Pastorius can safely be removed as a Piedmont 350-only candidate.<br /><br />I also wonder about the omission of Chance (Red Portrait) from the present survey. I don't recall having ever seen him with any 350 back except Piedmont. Have you?<br /><br />Scot<br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The next update I intend to remove Conroy and Pastorius. I left both of them listed as long as I did, to see if someone else had P 350's <br />besides you (Conroy) and me (Pastorius).<br />Also, since the it took me a couple of years to find Pastorius (in my search to augment my Piedmont set with P350 versions of my 150<br /> Series cards.<br /><br />Regarding the Red Chance....about a year ago I saw an SC 350 on ebay. I don't recall, though, if I contacted the seller to verify it. So, <br />I'd say "the jury is still out" on the Red Chance with only a P 350 back.<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>A wild coincidence, as we were discussing Conroy and Pastorius in the prior posts here......ebay informed me<br /> that I won a Conroy (fldg) with a Piedmont 350 back.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=300151304591" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=300151304591</a><br /><br />Now, I need only two more subjects from this group with the tough Piedmont 350 back....Jones and Karger.<br /><br />Incidently, I will add the Red Chance to the next updated table....so, let's see what we get ?<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Congrats on the Conroy.<br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Several more emailed inputs to add to this survey when I update it later today.<br /><br />Also, I'll be adding Frank Chance (red portrait) to this survey....as, no Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 backs have been reported<br /> for this T206.<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>NOTE.....Red portrait Chance has been added to this Survey....so check-out this card along with the others.<br /> <br />Thanks for your inputs....Net54 readers, who emailed me.<br /><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-21-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................12<br /><br />Chance (Red portrait).......2.............1..............1.... ...........0....................8<br /><br />Conroy (fielding)..............3.............1........... ....0..............2..................29<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................31<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................12<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................28<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................30<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................34<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4...............0..................3 1<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................38<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................25<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................33<br /><br />Pastorius........................2..............2. .............0...............2..................29<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................22<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................29.............19 ............20..............4.................372<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, let's have some more inputs ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Ted<br /><br />Chance(Red) SC 350 F25 P150<br /><br /><br><br>Drew

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>DREW<br /><br />Thanks, I suspected that Chance existed with more than a Piedmont 350 back in the 350 series. We solved this<br />question very swiftly.<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>NOTE.....Red portrait Chance has been added to this Survey....so check-out this card along with the others.<br /> <br />Thanks for your inputs....Net54 readers, who emailed me.<br /><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-23-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................14<br /><br />Chance (Red portrait).......4.............1..............1.... ...........1..................14<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................31<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................12<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................30<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................31<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................34<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4...............0..................3 5<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................40<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................25<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................33<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................23<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................26.............16 ............20..............1.................322<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, let's have some more inputs ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Martin Neal</b><p>Hi Ted,<br /><br /> Here are my "cousins" to add to your survey.<br /><br /><br />Ames, hands at chest------------p-150<br />Chance, red portrait------------sc-350, factory 30<br />Dahlen, Boston------------------p-150<br />L. Doyle, throwing--------------p-150<br />Ewing---------------------------p-150<br />Ganley--------------------------sc-150<br />T. Jones------------------------p-150<br />Karger--------------------------p-150<br />Lindaman------------------------sc-150<br />Mullin--------------------------sc-150<br />Schulte-------------------------p 150<br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Only have Lundgren (Cubs) and Schulte (Front View) both Piedmont 150.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Danny Grimes</b><p>ted,<br /><br />i have a red portrait Chance Sweet Cap 350 as well, let me know if you need scans.<br /><br /><br />Danny

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>No scan necessary guy, thanks for your input.<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>NOTE.....Red portrait Chance has been added to this Survey....so check-out this card along with the others.<br /> <br />Thanks Martin, Dave, Danny and four Net54 readers, who emailed me.<br /><br /><br />"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-24-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................19<br /><br />Chance (Red portrait).......4.............1..............1.... ...........6..................20<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................36<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................14<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................36<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................36<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................42<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4...............0..................4 4<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................48<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................29<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................41<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................28<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................26.............16 ............20..............6.................393<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, let's have some more inputs ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>OK, this survey has quickly proven that the Red Chance isn't part of this "elite eleven"....that could have been included on the same sheet(s) as<br /> the Joe Doyle error card.<br />I've always felt that the T206 sheets were in formats of 12 cards across. Therefore, my speculation of these 12 cards here on this topic certainly<br /> sounds very plausible.<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-25-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................20<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................38<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................14<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................40<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................38<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................47<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4...............0..................5 0<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................52<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................29<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................43<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................28<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................22.............15 ............19..............6.................419<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, let's have some more inputs ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Hey guys, can you....TINKER....EVERS-ome more....in the....CHANCE....that your may have more of these T206's in your collections ?<br /><br />There is a good number of T206 "junkies" on this Net that dig this stuff.....so, we appreciate your inputs.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hello Ted,<br /><br />In that 9-25 update the totals in the bottom line aren't the totals for the numbers above... is there more data, or is the math weak?? Am I missing something??? Please recalculate, thank you sir.<br /><br />Frank.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>The math is correct....it reflects an email from a Net54 reader with 18 inputs (all 150's). <br /><br />And, I reviewed all my T206's and I came up with 8 additional cards on the list (all 150's)<br /><br />I was hoping for many more inputs on these 11 "cousins".....but, I guess we have mined<br /> all the "350's" that Net54er's have on these. More importantly, I feel that we are seeing<br />the point I initially presented that the Piedmont 350 backs of these subjects are rare....<br />or non-existent.<br /><br />I think we could continue this survey till we exceed 1000 inputs and the number of 350<br /> backs will not significantly increase, while the 150 backs will continue to increase (further<br /> reinforcing the rarity of the 350's).<br /><br />Thanks Frank,<br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 9-30-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................20<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................41<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................15<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................51<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................40<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................52<br /><br />Karger............................3..............0 ..............4...............0..................6 1<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................59<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................30<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................45<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................30<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................22.............15 ............19..............0.................444<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />We are rolling right along now; and, I appreciate your time and effort....so, let's have some more inputs ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br /><br />TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I was offered a 112-card T206 collection recently. Just a few stars, but lots of commons (in multiples). From it, I will add to this survey<br /> these "cousins".....<br /><br />Piedmont 150......Ames, Dahlen, Ganley, Ewing, Karger, Lindaman, Mullin, Schulte<br /><br />Piedmont 350......Karger<br /><br />Sweet Cap 150....Dahlen, Ewing, T. Jones, Schulte<br /><br /><br /><br />Net54ers, how about some more of your inputs, there's "tons" of these T206's out there....but, very few with "350" backs ? <br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>"Cousins" Survey........UPDATED 10-4-07<br /><br /><br />To provide a relative perspective, I've tallied the total number of 150 and 350 inputs in the rightmost column. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />Player................Piedmont 350......HINDU........EPDG....Sweet Cap 350....150/350 inputs (total)<br /><br /><br />Ames (hands/chest).........0.............1..............0..... ..........0..................21<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston)...............4.............3............ ..0...............0..................43<br /><br />L Doyle (throwing)............0.............2............. .0...............0..................15<br /> <br />Ewing............................1..............1. .............1...............0..................53<br /><br />Ganley...........................3..............1. .............2...............0..................41<br /><br />T Jones (St Louis)............2..............2..............3. ..............0..................53<br /><br />Karger............................4..............0 ..............4...............0..................6 2<br /><br />Lindaman........................3..............5.. ............3...............0..................60<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)..............4..............0.............. 1...............0..................30<br /><br />Mullin (throw)..................2..............0......... .....5...............0..................46<br /><br />Schulte (front)................0..............0........... ...0................0..................32<br /><br /><br />Totals...........................23.............15 ............19..............0.................456<br /><br /><br /><br />OK, guys and gals we have us another Survey....flip over these T206's in your set and tell me their T-brand ?<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone,<br /><br />T-Rex TED

[tibor1]

Posted by tibor1


I have two questions. Why did this thread die? What are these cards worth
in PSA 5. I'm revisiting my t-206's after 30 years and I'm curious to the
value of some of these cards. Thanks, tibor1

[swarmee]

Welcome to this board.
1) Old threads don't die, people stop responding to them. There is a very long thread about T206s that kind of encompasses all of these surveys now. Plus, there are some new T206 websites that seek to answer these sorts of questions.
2) https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/ is a resource to see what these cards sell near. PWCC's website, VCP, or Worthpoint may help you as well.

[brianp-beme]

Ted is one of the resident T206 masterminds on this board and was the author of this old post and many others regarding this set. The below link:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816

is a thread of his that, in the first post, has a compilation of links to his previous T206 threads.

Brian

[tommy]

hi

is there any more updated info on these elite 11's , i love them ,its like an easter egg hunt .

thanks
Tommy

[Ronnie73]

hi

is there any more updated info on these elite 11's , i love them ,its like an easter egg hunt .

thanks
Tommy

Hi Tommy, Welcome to the group. If you click on this link http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816&page=15 and scroll down to Post #742 you can read about them and see many scans. The posts continue onto the next page up to Post #760. You can also ask your questions here and one of us will answer the best we can. There are a few of us on this board that actively collect these cards including myself so your in the right place.

[frankrizzo29]

What is an approximate value for one of these Elite 11 cards if it's a PSA 1, PSA 2, and PSA3? I know this is very subjective, but am curious as to what everyone thinks about this.

[GeoPoto]

Can somebody clarify (perhaps it is clear in the thread, but I couldn't find a clear explanation) why Conroy (Fielding) was in the "Elite 11" at the beginning of the thread, but had disappeared by the end. Is Conroy (Fielding) still viewed as "rare" with a P350 back?

[Ronnie73]

What is an approximate value for one of these Elite 11 cards if it's a PSA 1, PSA 2, and PSA3? I know this is very subjective, but am curious as to what everyone thinks about this.

On average, PSA 1 $300, PSA 2 $400, PSA 3 $500. Exceptions would be Dahlen, Lundgren, and Spencer. Those would be more due to popularity and/or rarity.

[Ronnie73]

Can somebody clarify (perhaps it is clear in the thread, but I couldn't find a clear explanation) why Conroy (Fielding) was in the "Elite 11" at the beginning of the thread, but had disappeared by the end. Is Conroy (Fielding) still viewed as "rare" with a P350 back?

There were actually a few others early on. There currently is a decent group of Print Group One Piedmont 350 short prints that are not Elite 11's. The main reason for some of the early suspect cards to be removed from the list is they can also be found with Sweet Caporal 350 backs. The Elite 11's can not be found with Sweet Caporal 350's.

[frankrizzo29]

On average, PSA 1 $300, PSA 2 $400, PSA 3 $500. Exceptions would be Dahlen, Lundgren, and Spencer. Those would be more due to popularity and/or rarity.

Thank you Ron!!!