All Auction Houses 25% BP? when will it happen?....

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Posted By: <b>rand brotman</b><p>i was thinking about Sotheby's increased BP. How long until Mastro bumps their BP? Then all the other auction houses will go to 20% - 22.5% so they will still be under the big boys. Does this mean seller premiums will basically get to 0 - 5% across the board due to competition?

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Who would consign to an auction house with a 25% buyers fee? <br /><br />Has anybody figured up exactly house much money you fork over listing something on ebay that say sells for $1000? between listing fees, seller fees, and if you accept paypal? does it even add up to 15% total? <br /><br />and yes...i'm too lazy to try and figure it up <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ebay listing fees are tiny but on the selling end they take a chunk. I think between ebay and paypal fees you lose about 5-6%, but someone else may have those numbers down better.<br /><br />And I'm not sure about the premise of this thread. Mastro has a BP of 20%, and have made no mention of raising it. Why speculate that they might?

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>I thought the BP was 20% in Sotheby's current auction. Has it gone up to 25% already? If not, when will it?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Who cares what it is if you are a buyer--it can be 50% for all I care. I assume everyone bids on a net price basis and figures the surcharge into their bid. Why wouldn't they?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree completely. When bidding on a 5k item from an auction hosue I always think to myself that I am paying 6k.....I can't imagine auction houses going much more than 20% as they will lose consignments....Their percentages are absolutely market driven if you really think about it. If no one will consign at 22% then they will have to be lower.....if no one will consign at 20% they will have to be lower (though this looks like the top thresh hold right now).. I think after it's all said and done you will be about 6%-8% cost selling on ebay....so there is a 12%-14% delta to the auction house. Recently I would have done better consigning a few items to Mastro, or another auction hosue, than doing ebay, I am sure....Ebay seems to be good for the more common stuff but the exotic stuff does better at boutique auction houses...again, all imho.....and from my perspective...

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Posted By: <b>rand brotman</b><p>hey King, oh yeah...25% take it to the bank!!

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Posted By: <b>rand brotman</b><p>i would think the consignors or future consignors will care greatly, the higher the BP the less their net. i wasnt concerned with the buyer as the seller and then they have to wait months for payout. ebay is actually great even for boutique items because eventually the buyer will find you, even if it takes 3 months its no slower than a major auction house.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The beauty of selling on ebay is the double snipe. If two people decide to leave very high bids, your piece will sell for a crazy number. Now that will not happen all the time, but if you put up enough desirable material, it will periodically. <br /><br />That doesn't generally occur in a catalog auction because bids increase in 10% increments. However, catalog auctions are more consistent than ebay. Ebay prices can be very low too. You just never know.

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Posted By: <b>Harry Wallace (HW)</b><p>I agree with Jim and Leon.<br /><br />As a buyer, I just figure out what is the net amount that I want to pay then back off the buyer's premium and bid that amount.<br /><br />As a seller, I am only concerned about the total % that I am not going to get. I could care less if it is a 25% buyer's premium and a 0% seller's premium or a 15% buyer's premium and a 10% seller's premium.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Guys...<br />So at what point is it actually smarter to put something up on ebay if your only in 8-10% say on the fees between selling fees and paypal? even less than that I guess if someone cuts you a check. <br /><br />Is it better to have a $1000 item on ebay instead of an auction house? <br />Is it just thought your protected better through an auction house than on ebay so your willing to lose money on the selling end with that auction house?

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>It is about the audience. Mainstream stuff does very well on ebay and it might make sense to put it out there rather than pay for an auction house. More offbeat stuff, however, can often do better with an auctioneer who specializes in the field both because of the mailing list and the longer duration of the listing. If I was liquidating a collection of "basic" cards I'd definitely sell them on ebay rather than have an auction house lump them into a dealer lot and adding insult to injury taking 30% or more for the service. I think I'd net a lot more. If I had something rare and desirable, an auctioneer will be the way to go, esp. if I can negotiate the fees down to a reasonable percentage.

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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>Assume I consign an item that is worth $1,000 and assume further that no one will pay more or less than $1,000. <br /><br />Assume a 10% seller premium (SP).<br /><br />Assume a 15% buyer premium (BP). With a 15% BP a buyer will bid no more than $870 in order to end up at the $1,000.<br /><br />Therefore, I as a seller, will receive $783. ($870 less 10% SP)<br /><br />Changing this to a 0% SP and a 25% BP a buyer now will bid no more than $800 but I as the seller will get $17 more ($800 vs. $783)<br /><br />So there does appear to be a difference.<br />

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Posted By: <b>rand brotman</b><p>the higher the BP the lower the actual net price the seller gets. so it will be tougher in my opinion for an auction house to get more product (unless their seller fees are 0 - 5%) due to the % of BP fees.

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Posted By: <b>jay wolt</b><p>"I think between ebay and paypal fees you lose about 5-6%, but someone else may have those numbers down better"<br /><br />Barry, for my ebay items ($50-$100)its more like 7-8%<br />and for the smaller dollar cards under $20 it reaches about 18%<br /><br />Ebay seems to raise its fees every year or so<br />so I'm sure the #'s will only get higher.<br />And Paypal will likely follow suite as well.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hi Jay- we just spoke a moment ago- if the scale is sliding what does it cost for a $500 or $1000 item? I pay my bill at the end of the month but it's too complicated to break down card by card.

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>I agree with Jim C that this is more an issue between auction house and consignor than auction house and bidder because a bidder takes the bp into account when deciding how high to go. It is interesting the significant rise in the bp over the past years (from 10% in the early '90's to as high as 25% today). I guess that reflects the increased competition among the auction houses to get quality consignments and their need to slash/eliminate the sp to do so. What I find intrigung is that I would think the substantially higher prices for baseball collectibles would exert a downward pressure on the bp for baseball auction houses, counteracting to at least some degree the need to raise the bp to make up for the lower sp. Afterall, if a portfolio of cards that was worth say $25k five years ago is now worth $100K, then even if the sp is now lower, the fourfold increase in value of that consignment would still seem to result in a higher profit to the auction house even at the old bp.