Ink Bleed on Back of '33 Goudey?

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Does anyone have any authentic '33 Goudeys where the ink on the back has bled? None of my authentics have ink bleed - all the lettering looks very crisp. I want to know if ink bleed is a sure sign of a forgery. Also, any scans of authentic bled backs (if they exist) would be appreciated.<br />thanks!

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I'm sitting here at the airport in Vegas <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> so I don't have a scan for you but my experience is that bleeding is fairly common with 33 Goudeys. I am presuming that you are referring to "red" bleed through front to back.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Hi Steve - thanks for the response. I'm referring to the letters on the back bleeding so that they don't look sharp and crisp. As an example - in the word BOSTON on the bottom right of the back, with bleeding you would barely be able to make out the holes in the top and bottom of the 'B'

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Many of my Goudey's have this and they are all authentic. (They were, for the most part, my Dad's.) <br /><br />I don't think it's "bleed" that you're looking at. I've always assumed that it was a byproduct of the printing process. As each sheet came off the press it landed on top of the previous sheet. If that sheet was heavily inked (e.g.- at the start of the run) that ink had not completely dried and transferred to the top sheet. Certainly the red is the most noticeable, so you see it a lot along the "Big League Gum" banner, but I see it in other colors too. <br /><br />I'll see if I can get a scan that shows it.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Jim - thanks for the response. If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying would explain a transfer of ink from the front of one card to the back of another, or vice versa. I don't think it would explain the letters on the back bleeding so they don't look very sharp.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>If you're just talking about the printing on the backs, I'd love to see an example. <br /><br />A raw example:<br /><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/1933GoudeyBurns.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/1933GoudeyBurns-b.jpg"><br /><br /><br />One slabbed:<br /><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/1933GoudeyFerrell.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/1933GoudeyFerrell-b.jpg"><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>like this - notice how it looks like all the letters have been bolded: <br /><br /><br /><a href="http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goudeybleedback2nn0.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8021/goudeybleedback2nn0.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a><br /><br />or in super high res (1 MB file):<br /><br /><a href="http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0001nc2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3922/scan0001nc2.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Bump now that scans have been provided

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>matt that card back looks authentic. goudey reprints are pretty easy to spot. the reprints are usually thinner stock and glossy on the frt. usually the frt will exhibit a lot of wear(from scammer trying to put wear on it) and still have a polished look.if held to a bright light bulb a real goudey will block the light. a reprint will show the frt of the card if held with the back to a light bulb. if it feels like others you have and all that is wrong is that bleed i would say the card is 100% real.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>dennis - thanks for the reply. Actually, I was just using that card as an example of what I meant by bleeding - I'm 99% certain that card is a forgery - <br />check here for a high-res look at the front corner of that card; I think the fact that the red bottom line is dotted and not solid means its a fake (although if I'm wrong someone should correct me): <a href="http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0002ik9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src=" http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1264/scan0002ik9.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a> <br /><br />What I want to determine is if anyone has an authentic card that exhibits the kind of bleeding on the back pictured above or is that an easy way to determine a forgery?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>So, no one has any authentic Goudey's that exhibit the back ink bleed shown above?

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Posted By: <b>Ken W.</b><p>Here's a 1934 example of the wet printing from the back of one card transfering to the front of this card. Pretty sure this is authentic.<br /><br /><img src="http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s290/triwak/62.jpg"><br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>again; thanks for the input - that's not what I'm asking about here.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Matt, <br /><br />I think your eyes are probably better than mine. (I know your scanner is better.) I really don't see the same problem you do. <br /><br />I have owned one "fake" 1933 Goudey. You could tell by looking at it that it was a reprint that had been aged. If I were blind, I could have told by touch. <br /><br />To me the hardest thing for a fake to duplicate is the cardboard. The cards from that era, (Goudey, US Caramel, etc.) all have a similar feel that isn't readily reproducible. Of course, that means nothing if the card is slabbed. <br /><br />Sorry I can't help more.

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>You should be able to see a difference between teh B in the word BOSTON in the scan I posted (you have to click it to enlarge it) and the backs that others posted above. In the one I posted you can barely make out the white in the loops of the B. It's as if someone took the entire back of the card and changed it from regular font to bold font.<br />thanks!