Plank card

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Ok...here's the first Plank card I've come across...as well as a Mathewson card. Both are Standard Caramels..<br /><br /><a href="http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x291/skydash55/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x291/skydash55/</a>

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>the plot thickens...they're not all t206's. Uh oh. the t206 plank is very valuable whereas an e93 caramel plank is marginally valuable...yet very desirable!<br /><br />pete ullman in mn

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Like I said....just the first one I've found...Who knows...

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The rare Eddie Plank card is in the T206 set, and it is a portrait with a blue background. That is an E93, which is desirable because Plank is a famous player in the Hall of Fame...but it is not rare. The Mathewson is from the same set and is a popular card with collectors.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Skydash,<br /> If you had posted a T206 Plank as nice as the Tintops, you would have been responsible for several strokes.... Glad you didn't hurt anybody, as it would be tough to explain to there relatives... E93's are nice, but I'm a T206 guy at heart.. Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Even if there isn't a t206 Plank found, or a Magie, this is still an incredible collection. The Tin Tops alone are incredibly important, even more so given that there is a Jackson and a Thorpe.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>A couple very nice cards to own for sure. But I'm wondering guys if Sky has any T206's? I know in the first pics he showed were a couple T205's...he may have a variety of all sorts of stuff <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>1200 cards of t206 size is significant no matter how many different sets they are from.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>I will take the mystery out of it for you. Here are the Mfgs. I have on the list:<br />American Caramel<br />El Principe De Gales<br />Polar Bear Tobacco<br />John H. Dockman&Sons<br />Sweet Caporal 150/350/460<br />Old Mill<br />Piedmont Cigarettes/Gold Bordered-400 series/150 series/350<br />Standard Caramel<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>American Caramel<br />El Principe De Gales<br />Polar Bear Tobacco<br />John H. Dockman&Sons<br />Sweet Caporal 150/350/460<br />Old Mill<br />Piedmont Cigarettes/Gold Bordered-400 series/150 series/350<br />Standard Caramel<br /><br /><br />E90's...maybe<br />EPDG, Polar Bear, Sweet Cap, Old Mill, Piedmont T206's..<br />T205s...<br />E92's and E93's....all pretty desireable if in fact the E90's are what the American Caramels are.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You have a combination of candy cards and cigarette cards.<br /><br />Certainly the predominant brands you have are Sweet Caporal and Piedmont. You don't have any rare T206 backs, although the EPDG's are a bit tougher.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>What??? No Cullivan's Fireside??? <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Come on Dan, I know you were hoping for a Hustler t206<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>An incredible find indeed! As Jay said...the TT's alone are incredible. The breakdown seems more realistic when thinking of a period "collection". To have all the T206 backs would be odd and to have the rarities of plank/magie would imply the collector was quite dedicated as well re. T206's. Keep those scans coming...this is fun.<br /><br />pete ullman

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Posted By: <b>Plank card</b><p>Sky,<br /><br />If you want, you can email me any dark images and I will brighten them up and sharpen them, then email them back to you. Then you can re-upload them. If so, then send them as attachments or in the email to: pspector@optonline.net<br /><br />Paul S

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Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Sky, <br /><br />Congrats on the cards. Very cool find! <br /><br /><br />Josh

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>If Sky turns up a T206 Wagner, T206 Plank, 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth, and a T206 Cobb w/ the red background and Cobb back, this board will go into meltdown. Honestly, I'm not surprised as I'm a big optimist whenever it comes to older cards. I truly believe there are quite a few collections like this one and better still yet to be discovered. Some may be hidden within secret compartments in old attics, barns, abandoned dwellings, etc. Maybe I'm crazy, but I still believe there is another raw future PSA 8 T206 Wagner out there unknown to the world. It is what keeps me collecting.

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy</b><p>There are still collections to be found out there, I tend to come across at least one good find a year. These are some wonderful pieces and look forward to seeing more pictures. This is the reason I still look and hope I can expand my part-time business with a find of my own.<br /><br />Jimmy

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>"If Sky turns up a T206 Wagner, T206 Plank, 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth, and a T206 Cobb w/ the red background and Cobb back, this board will go into meltdown. Honestly, I'm not surprised as I'm a big optimist whenever it comes to older cards. I truly believe there are quite a few collections like this one and better still yet to be discovered. Some may be hidden within secret compartments in old attics, barns, abandoned dwellings, etc. Maybe I'm crazy, but I still believe there is another raw future PSA 8 T206 Wagner out there unknown to the world. It is what keeps me collecting."<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I have found 3 Cobbs so far that fit that description....who is the company that made them??

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>The super-rare and valuable T-206 Ty Cobb portrait with red background has an advertising brand on the back called "Ty Cobb: King of the Smoking Tobacco World". One of those in approximately the condition of your E93 Plank sold last week for 60k.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Skydash, if you happen to come across a small hand-beaten gold cup showing the remmants of something reddish in its depths, that glows ethereally when you touch it, and you're hearing a deep fatherly voice urging you to save the world.....well, I would not be at all surprised! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>.<br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Skydash,<br /><br />Care to share the gentleman's name who put all of this work into collecting the cards that you now have the pleasure of owning?<br /><br />Robert

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Sky,<br /><br /><br />I wouldn't give out any names, yours or anyone else connected with you, until the cards are secured and insured. (Probably not even then.) <br /><br />I understand us all wanting to know more, but this is a public message board. <br /><br />(Besides, as someone else already pointed out, giving out names might make it easier for that guy with the suitcase full of cash to find him!)<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Jim VB,<br /><br />You might be right about that. Good point. <br /><br />Speaking of which. I don't remember seeing you around here before these few threads. Are you a collector?<br /><br />Robert

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Guys, you really do need lay off with wise cracks and snide comments. We are dealing with someone that doesn't know a whole lot about cards and all you are doing is making a stressful situation even worse for him.<br /><br />If you don't have anything constructive or positive to add to this or his others posts, please don't post then.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Discovering some cool and valuable baseball cards is "stressful"? Interesting perspective, Jay.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>I'ts ok....Geez,If I was a collector,I'd have probably posted everything that's already been written at least twice. I can assure you I'm as dumbfounded as a monkey making love to a football. My father-in-law had this collection before me.He died a few years back.......and here's the killer....This whole collection has been sitting in a sdb since then!I hadn't given it much thought until my wife asked about it the other day,so we went over and picked it up,and that's when I made the initial post regarding an appraisal! Thats it!! And yes,my Father in law was very smart in protecting it as he did.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>try to imagine that you are not a collector and you are trying to figure out what you have. You are getting barraged with various questions and requests for various cards, etc that you aren't quite sure what they are asking for. Then to top it off, you get idiots asking if he's found the Holy Grail and other nonsense. <br /><br />I'm sure he's enjoying it too, learning that what he is worth a small fortune, but at the same time, learning you have won the lottery is also stressful.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Guys,<br /> I have chatted with the owner through email for a couple of days, and I advised him to stop posting pictures on the board. I suggested he contact one of the major auction houses if he was interested in selling, and if not, to get a big safety deposit box and a big insurance policy. <br /> I would love to view the collection as much as anyone, but I don't think exposing it at this point would be in his best interest. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS Please don't ask me for his name or his email, because I will not disclose that information.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Robert A,<br /><br />Long time collector. Relatively new to vintage. Very new to this board. <br /><br /><br />Jay, <br /><br />I suggested that he not give out any info, on a public message board, that could lead to him being tracked down. How do you categorize that: "wise cracks" or "snide comments"?

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>I could use a little of that stress myself.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Jim that's perfectly sound advice.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Welcome to vintage and to the board.<br /><br />Rob

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You said this:<br /><br />"If you don't have anything constructive or positive to add to this or his others posts, please don't post then."<br /><br />But aren't you the one who said you yourself don't want to have postive posts on this board as it will make money for me? Just trying to understand......Seems like you are contradicting yourself again....

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Posted By: <b>rand</b><p>this is the 1 and only time Jay has been civil and constructive. i laughed out load when i read his quote on being constructive. that's calling the kettle black if i ever saw an example! be careful Leon, he may put one of your quotes on the bottom of his posts about how to treat people.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>Jay, I don't know you and you don't know me. I certainly do not appreciate your insinuation that I and others are 'idiots' for asking about certain cards skydash may or may not own. That is not professional on your part. I was just trying to help him sort the most valuable cards in an effort to educate him. That way he doesn't go off and sell something valuable for next to nothing in terms of the subjects value. Keep your snide comments to yourself if you can't say something constructive or nice yourself.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Marc, the comment was directed towards E Daniel others that have made ridiculous comments about what might be in there. In your case, if you had read ever post sky has made, you would have seen the one where he lists all the different backs on the cards. Asking about a Balt News Ruth makes no sense given what is in the collection and where it originated. The card would have stuck out like a sore thumb amongst all the Colgans and standard size T and E cards.<br /><br />Geez Leon, I'm helpful and all you can done is try and inflame the situation between us. You've begged and pleaded with me to be civil and when I am, you prove to be the one that tries to stir things up. So who really is the problem then when you go out of your way to make a post like that? I have no interest in lining your pockets, but I will make exceptions from time to time, such as with Sean, or someone like this.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Hey .....as I've said many times before...I TRULY appreciate all the feedback you guys have provided(the holy grail joke was hilarious)!! Please don't let my lack of knowledge regarding this collection provide any ammo. for anyone to get pissed at anyone else.My lifelong motto has always been"if you can't have fun doing it,don't do it" I know it's a simplistic outlook,but it has served me well up to this point.<br />This has been a real eye-opener for me,and I feel like everyone has been honest and a straight shooter.Thank you. I know if I were reading something like this I would try to be as helpful as possible...but I might let a little"smart-ass" show through as well.So...keep it coming....I can use the help!

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Posted By: <b>rand</b><p>hey skydash. it would be great to see more pix as you go through the group. from a collectors point of view. thx

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>Skydash, the Holy Grail wasn't meant as a joke. This is referring to the T206 Honus Wagner. It is referred to as the "Holy Grail" of baseball cards, simply because it is the most valuable and most sought after baseball card today. I however, feel a little "smartass" showing through is unnecessary and juvenile and i could care less after that. But, that's just me I guess. Carry on....

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>"I however, feel a little "smartass" showing through is unnecessary and juvenile and i could care less after that. But, that's just me I guess. Carry on...."<br />If you interpreted my statement by me referring to the "holy grail" statement as "smart-ass" then I apologise,as this wasn't my intent. I was referring only to my own particular personality.I can tend to be that way from time to time.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Skydash seems a real nice fellow, has written rather openly and eloquently and with the fun and excitement reflecting such an amazing experience, and I try a little humour.....boy Jay, you are one hardass pain in the ass.<br /><br />Lets see, THREE Cobb/Cobb backs, forget the thorpie and Jacko colgans.<br />I would say that most collectors would have thought the Holy Grail a more likely find!!! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />All hail the new arbiter of what can and can't be spoken on this board. Jay Behrens, your chariot waits humbly by. Scoff Scoff Scoff.<br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Geeez, I love how people can't even keep facts straight. Where in the world did he say that he has 3 Cobb/Cobb cards? The guy is dealing with a lot and all I did was ask that stupid questions stop. Obviously, yours was the dumbest and you apparently can't even keep straight what he has, so spare us your spoutings. You are clueless, even you have facts in front of you.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>own way out of the warren.<br /><br />Skydash:<br /><br /><br />"Cobb cards August 9 2007, 12:06 PM <br /><br /><br />"If Sky turns up a T206 Wagner, T206 Plank, 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth, and a T206 Cobb w/ the red background and Cobb back, this board will go into meltdown. Honestly, I'm not surprised as I'm a big optimist whenever it comes to older cards. I truly believe there are quite a few collections like this one and better still yet to be discovered. Some may be hidden within secret compartments in old attics, barns, abandoned dwellings, etc. Maybe I'm crazy, but I still believe there is another raw future PSA 8 T206 Wagner out there unknown to the world. It is what keeps me collecting."<br /><br /><br />I have found 3 Cobbs so far that fit that description....who is the company that made them??<br />"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Maybe you should learn to read before you write on this board!<br /><br /><br /><br />Daniel<br /><br /><br />edited title due to language......<br /><br />Edited by Leon, I myself wasn't aware that such paraphernalia was a naughty word. Now I do <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Maybe you need to take some English as a second language courses. You need to read closely the last part....who is the company that made them?<br /><br />Geez, where is our resident English teacher when we really need him <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jay<br /><br /><br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Leave it to this board to turn a great find into a pissing match....

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Leave it to this board to turn a great find into a pissing match....<br /><br />I'm really sorry my post led to this...

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>There is a great jewish word for you Jay Behrens.<br />It's Putz.<br /><br />Everyone is laughing their ass off at you right now, so why don't you go find a sandpit to sit and drool in.<br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Let's get back on track.....I asked a question that could have incited something, so sorry for that,. but lets do get back on track now...This is a great find for our newest board member. No more insults...please take it to personal email if you must....Anymore will be deleted...

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Let's get back on track.....I asked a question that could have incited something, so sorry for that,. but lets do get back on track now...This is a great find for our newest board member. No more insults...please take it to personal email if you must....Anymore will be deleted...

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Nice to see that you had no defense for what I pointed other than calling me a putz. Maybe Leon needs put you on a short leash as you always seem to be in the middle of trouble around here.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Leon, apology accepted.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Scott L</b><p>It's gotten to the point where the poor guy is apologizing for posting on a baseball card messageboard that he found some baseball cards ......incredible.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I hear ya....and that is why I stepped in..

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Posted By: <b>Scott L</b><p>Leon<br />You must have the patience of 10,000 men. Hats off to you.<br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Well, Sky, just think of this as a toughening-up course, which will serve you well should you ever do decide to test the card market. Congrats on a great find.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Actually Jay, unlike yourself, English is probably my strong suit.<br /><br />His question actually betrays you for the lack of hobby understanding you've revealed. It is a question every hobbyist has discussed on this board a million times:<br /><br />Just who was the manufacturer/printer/maker of these Cobb/Cobb cards. It's a sophisticated and intuitive question which he arrived at after looking at his other T cards.<br />It's everything you're not.<br /><br />Question answered, and In deferrence to Leon's very reasonable request, and everyone else no doubt being annoyed that such an enjoyable discovery could be so derailed, I'll shut up from here on out on this thread.<br /><br /><br />Sincerely<br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Too bad I'm not a betting man because even though he has some incredible cards, I doubt he has 3 Cobb/Cobb cards. He might have 3 t206 red background Cobbs, but I doubt they have Cobb backs. Hopefully he will step in and clear things up.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Skydash,<br /><br />Please email me.<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Frank fwakefield1@comcast.net

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Well, skydash mentioned havint three Cobbs. I took that to mean three Cobbs period..not T206's with Cobb backs. It appears he has some E90's, E92's, T205's and T206's....he could have any of the Cobbs....but I doubt a T206 Cobb back <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Randy Trierweiler</b><p>Skydash, don't worry at all about your posts being the cause of the fighting you see here. These guys have gone at it this way long before you came here. It may look bad to a newcomer, but these spats are not unusual at all. <br /><br />Your find is very close to a historic level, and the testoserone level is higher than normal. <br /><br />Congrats on your good fortune. <br /><br />95% of the posts here are from good folks who wish you well. <br /><br />Good luck.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Well, skydash mentioned havint three Cobbs. I took that to mean three Cobbs period..not T206's with Cobb backs. It appears he has some E90's, E92's, T205's and T206's....he could have any of the Cobbs....but I doubt a T206 Cobb back <br /><br />I have found 6. One of which I'll show you here along with 2 other random cards..<br /><br /><a href="http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x291/skydash55/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x291/skydash55/</a>

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>That's a very good looking T206 Red Background Cobb. Looks to be in excellent shape!

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>What back is on that Red Cobb portrait Skydash? Piedmont? Sweet Caporal? Polar Bear?

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>What back is on that Red Cobb portrait Skydash? Piedmont? Sweet Caporal? Polar Bear?<br />Piedmont

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I'm guessing I won't be getting an apology from the esteemed E Daniel.<br /><br />Sky, don't worry about the craziness that swirls around me. I'm basically the Barry Bonds of net54. You either love me or hate me, with most hating me and no matter what I do or say, I am always wrong. So don't sweat it. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Sky -- not your fault at all. A thread about "Oxygen is good" would degenerate to a pissing contest here.

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Posted By: <b>DMcD</b><p>I like oxygen.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I don't like oxygen David. And can't believe you'd imply you do on here. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>sky...that cobb is sweet...nice big, white borders. I can't wait to see more of those cobbies! And don't fret the bickering...I'd be more concerned if it wasn't occurring.<br /><br />pete in mn

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...sucks!

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>" If you don't have anything constructive or positive to add to this or his others posts, please don't post then."<br /><br />Jay you should listen to your own advice. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I'm not the one that made the stupid post or got upset for being called out about it. You should be directing you energy to E Daniel instead and take a look at yourself for making a post you know will inflame things. It never fails that when I post, you 2 come after me<br /><br />Just more proof that people try to blame me for everything.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>All Daniel did was try to add a little humor to the thread. You may not have found it funny but there was no reason to call him an idiot. You reap what you sow.

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Posted By: <b>Jerry</b><p>Skydash, you have a great collection of cards there. From what I have seen so far you have some cards that are seldom seen in the hobby. The Colgan's Thorpe was a complete rumor until somebody posted a picture of one just the other day. Yours is only the second one I have seen in 20yrs in the hobby and the first one was 2 days ago, what a coincidence. The Colgan's Jackson is a super rare card and very seldom encountered. As a matter of fact the Tin Tops Colgan's are much scarcer as a whole than regular Stars of the Diamond Colgan's. All this talk about T206 Planks & Cobb with Cobb backs are just people fantasizing about your collection. You could have some other rare cards but the odds of you having those particular cards are probally non exisistant. I would much enjoy looking at somemore of your cards. <br /> If you ever decide to sell any of them, be sure and talk to Barry Sloate or Rob Lifson. With the scope of your collection, don't settled for less than 0% sellers commission.

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Posted By: <b>Randy Trierweiler</b><p>"Just more proof that people try to blame me for everything."<br /><br />Jay, your right. You do get blamed for everything. Your just a victim. Your always the victim.<br /><br />I can't believe that somebody who does absolutely nothing wrong and never says anything wrong, gets blamed so much. <br /><br />I don't know how you put up with all this abuse. <br /><br />If I were you, I'd leave and never come back.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Leon asked this to stop and be taken to email if you guys feel the need to vent. Obviously, you have no respect for Leon's wishes.<br /><br />I will say this and stop answering you guys, I never said I was blameless. The point is that no matter what the situation is, whether I deserve to be blamed or not, I will get blamed for it. I'm an easy scapegoat, just like Bonds, because I am disliked, but don't blame for pissing matches, etc when it people like you, E Daniel and Pete keep piling on and throwing fuel on the fire. It takes two to tango and you guys are just as guilty of causeing problems around here I am.<br /><br />Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>Just to clear something up. Barry Bonds is not a scapegoat or innocent of anything for that matter. He made his bed, now he has to lay in it.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Bonds is very much a scapegoat for the whole steroid mess. If he's not a scapegoat,then why isn't there as much hate spewed towards Giambi, McGwire, Palmerio, et al? They were caught with PEDs but don't get anywhere near the hate Bonds does. People don't like Bonds, but those guys had a decent following, so it's a whole lot easier to make Bonds a scapegoat than any of those guys.<br /><br />Just what was Bonds foulnd guilty of? I missed that court case.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>All of those guys you mentioned have had plenty of their share of abuse. But, McGwire and Palmeiro are now retired. Why would people still be abusing them the same way as an active player like Bonds? Giambi admitted doing it and received a very fair share of abuse for that. However, none of these guys have the records right now that Bonds has. And that makes a difference with public perception. We had this talk about Bonds a couple days ago and you asked if I ever watched him play early in his career? I'm a Pirates fan, so yes I did. My cousin played for the Pirates in 1986 with Bonds and all throughout the minors and told me plenty of stories of what a jack-hole the guy is. In fact, I'm sure I know more about Bonds than the average fan. I still maintain Bonds was/is a joke when it comes to defense in the outfield. Laughable or not, that is my opinion as well as many others.

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Posted By: <b>Justin</b><p>Why aren't Derek Turnbow and Guillermo Mota being criticized when both actually failed drug tests for roids?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>or how about Nefi Perez, he just got strike 3<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>I answered both of those questions in my post above your posts. Fair or not, it is because Bonds broke the biggest records. If McGwire still had the single season HR record he would receive much more abuse for it today. I didn't say I agree with singling out just Bonds for steroids. But, I also didn't say he was innocent. There are many players just as guilty. If that makes him technically a scapegoat, then fine.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I think of Bonds more as a symbol and lightning rod for the steroid generation than a scapegoat. But Jay has one valid point, how do you throw out an entire generation of baseball players? There just isn't a good answer.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>"I still maintain Bonds was/is a joke when it comes to defense in the outfield. Laughable or not, that is my opinion as well as many others."<br /><br />Didn't he win 8 Gold Gloves? Yeah I know they don't always get the award right, I know all about Palmeiro, but he couldn't have won EIGHT being a joke, could he??

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>I don't care what the man says - or any other baseball executive - Bud Selig and everybody throughout the game KNEW about the steroid use being prevalent. After the 1994 strike, MLB needed a 'pick-me-up' and steroids provided that. The fans came back for the homerun. EVEN MLB ran advertisements.."Chicks dig the longball". I think that was really when it started to get out of control. It has even been rumored that steroids were being used in the mid to late 1980's by only a few players.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I think the steroid rumors about Canseco went back to the 80s. It was not too long after Ben Johnson was stipped of his medal, was it 88? The Fenway fans used to chant "Steroids steroids" and Jose would make muscles, it was great theater.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove at 1b despite playing only 28 games there one year. MLB rarely gets the award right. I don't think you can just go on how many a player gets. Sadly, if a player can hit a ton, he will win the gold glove award - unless of course another player at that same position hit better. Sometimes the correct players wins it.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I am interested in why you say Bonds was a joke as a left fielder. I can't say I have seen him enough to form a strong opinion, although the games I saw seemed consistent with his reputation as a very strong outfielder.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>The reason I say that is because he has - in my opinion - the weakest arm I've seen in MLB. And I can remember how the Pirates couldn't figure out where to play the guy because he wasn't that great of an outfielder. They tried him in CF and he didn't perform well. His arm was too weak for RF. Finally, Leyland decided on LF. If anyone remembers, it also wasn't until Leyland switched Bonds from leadoff to #5 in the order that his career took off. In fact, the Pirates almost traded Bonds to Atlanta for - I want to think Gerald Perry or Andres Thomas - because they didn't think he was going to amount to much. That was between 1988 and 1989. Between his struggles in the outfield, his bad attitude, and what the Pirates thought was 'lack of desire' to perform at his potential, he almost got traded away. Who knows what would have happened after that?

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Posted By: <b>Bill K@sel</b><p>Would you three children please take this to another thread!!?? I don't open Skydash's topics to listen to the three of you pontificate on Bonds and steroids or call each other names. Way to hi-jack a VERY exciting and interesting thread. (keeping mouth shut per Leon's wishes from going any further)<br /><br />Skydash - I just wanted to say congratulations on your "find". It's been great to read about how it came about and the unbelievable cards you have alread uncovered. Listen to what the "normal" people on this board are telling you regarding legal tax advice, protecting, insuring, grading, and if you decide to, selling off some or all of the collection. <br /><br />You have a great attitude. Don't let the infighting and bickering keep you from informing us how everything progresses.<br /><br />Let's get this back on track or lock it down.<br /><br />Bill<br><br>My personal collection - <a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/</a>

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Bill- i was just about to say the same thing...<br /><br />GOD DAMMIT guys, take it offline, i am sick of reading your ****!<br /><br />now i'm pist. i'm taking some time away from the board, this is ridiculous!<br /><br />SKY- congrats, and best of luck. IMO, call Rob Lifson at REA, he will take very good care of you & your collection.<br /><br />Best-<br />Michael Sarno

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Bill,<br /><br />Thanks for posting what I'm sure many of us were thinking.<br /><br />Sky,<br /><br />I'll echo the congratulations that many others have posted and add that you've seen the best and worst of this board. There are many folks who are more than willing to share their vast knowledge of the hobby, and there seem to be a few who consistently need the attention to be on them. My only advice is to focus on the former rather than the latter.<br /><br />Good luck,<br /><br />Rob

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Ditto here - who really cares about Bonds. And if you do, this thread isn't the place.<br /><br />Sky - great find. Congrats. Please show more pics if you are comfortable doing so.

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Sky,<br /><br />I apologize to you for the pissing match tangents that this thread is suffering. Its sad this board isn't mature enough to handle a "find" of 1,200+ cards, of which several are extremely significant....<br /><br />Brian

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Mohler</b><p>Congratulations on a great find! I sure hope to see the Thorpe on the auction block! I am sure all of us collectors (and dealers too) on the board dream of having this happen to us too <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jeff

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Posted By: <b>boxingbaseballgolf33</b><p>I have to say it was fun on the first day, after that the posts were getting out of hand. Good Luck with your collection Skydash55, we are always here to help<br /><br />Jimmy

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Skydash, congrats! I wonder if you were to get the cards graded by SGC, if they'd tag them with "Skydash find" like they did with Lionel Carters and Nagy collections?<br /><br />Have you decided if you're going to keep any/all of them as family heirlooms (sp?) ? Either way, congrats!<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Rob,<br /><br />I doubt SGC would tag those cards like they did the carter and nagy collections. Im fairly certain that SGC will only do that in very limited circumstances such as a collection from a hobby pioneer. As cool as this find is, its not quite the same thing.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Thanks for everything guys....I am simply overwhelmed.

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>congratulations and all the best in enjoying, in whatever way you feel is most appropriate and beneficial, this wonderful gift.<br /><br />Barry

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>If you don't have one, before you call anyone ... get a hold of Lew Lipset's "The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards."<br />Vol 1, 2, 3 combined.<br />Practically all the info that you're looking for is in there.<br />Mucha suerte, that's an interesting find.<br /><br />To all others:<br />I apologize for all I have caused here in this thread.<br />Don't ask me how ... but I did it.<br />Just ask the moderator dude ... he'll explain it all in his best Texanese logic. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Back to Skydash.<br /><br />Don't call anyone, until you know more about what you have.....<br /><br />Best of luck in whatever YOU decide.<br />Joe P.