1912 colgan chip 'tin' of joe jackson

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Posted By: <b>frank</b><p>what do fellow members think lot # 2 1912 e270 colgan"s chip /tin top / of joe jackson will bring in mastro;s auction , thank you ,frank

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>not sure, but i do wish that it would stay straight in the holder...annoying.<br /><br />p.s. all of a sudden there are a bunch of chips on eBay...

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think I said about 100k on the Garter Cobb and was pretty close so I will say somewhere around 30k-35k....total swag guess.....could be more...probably not too much less....<br /><br />edited to say I "upped" my guess a little.....but ya never know

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>It could get ugly. 50k.

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>With less than five examples known and being that it is Jackson I would have to say it would bring 30 to 40k.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>club with 40% downside, 80% updside.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>...could someone explain the difference between this joe chip & the ones on eBay? wagner, cobb, speaker, etc...i think those are 1909, and joe's is 1912? <br /><br />if someone could edjumacate me that would be great!<br /><br />MS

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>and the ones on ebay right now are Stars of the Diamond.<br /><br />Tin Tops are listed in the American Card Catalog as E270. They share that designation with the Red Bordered Colgans as well. Don't know why they never made another designation because it's not like they look ANYTHING alike. The Stars of the Diamond are E254 and the most 'common' of the chips. <br /><br />Stars of the Diamond (E254)<br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/cobb_detroit.jpg"><br /><br />Tin Tops (E270)<br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/northrop.jpg"><br /><br />Red Borders (E270)<br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/young_cleveland-1.jpg"><br /><br />The Tin Tops and Stars of the Diamond are all b/w photos on thinner, somewhat glossy paper. Not sure how they stamped the backs on the cards because you can find them rotated in all manner of ways. Always wondered that one. The Red Bordered Colgan's are printed on a thicker, less shiny type paper that kind of has a yellowish hue on the back of the chip. They are also VERY condition sensitive on the backs of the chips. The paper is cheap and it's hard to find one that doesn't have 'chips' or flakes on the back around the borders. So....to find a high graded Red Bordered E270--really much above a 5 is pretty difficult (in my opinion....). Plus the fronts of the Red Border chips are often askew...that is, the red border falls outside where it should or covers part of the chip or leaves a crescent type space(see below).<br /><br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/abbaticchio_pittsburgh.jpg"><br /><br />Great set(s).....all made here in Louisville, KY by Colgan's. John Colgan invented gum in the mid 1870's in Louisville and found a way using parafin in the early 1880's to make it taste better longer. Anyway, check out details on yahoo.....John Colgan Gum will get you tons of articles if you want more details.....<br /><br />Also...........there's the Stars of the Diamond E254 back variation of '208 in present series' (see below). VERY tough--as, if not more, tough than the E270 Tin Tops. <br /><br /><img src="http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i91/autograf99/back.jpg"><br /><br />Lots more people more qualified than I to talk about these.......hopefully some of them'll chime in..........

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>The E254's (examples currently listed on eBay) were most likely printed between 1909-11. Colgan's issued two other similar (but distinct) sets both labeled as E270. The Jackson is an example of an E270-2 or "Tin-Tops" as they are commonly referenced. They were probably issued in 1912 or 1913. They are also much more difficult to acquire than the E254's.

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Posted By: <b>steve</b><p>My jaw is on the floor with the guesstimate hammer prices of the Mastro's 1912 Colgan Tin Top J.Jackson SGC 20 (1.5) Fair.<br /><br />PSA has only graded 5 tin tops - ever - with none over the grade of 3-4. Not sure how many SGC has graded.<br /><br />I own a 1912 Colgan tin top Honus Wagner SGC 60 (EX 5). One of the rare goodies in my collection (could be the highest grade known to exist).<br /><br />Question: If you folks guess the J.Jackson SGC 20 to fetch near 30K, how about my Wagner SGC 60 ? Sorry, no scan now to aid in reply, its in the safe deposit.<br /><br />Steve. <br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Your Tin Top of Wagner is a great card. My thinking though is that since it's also in E254 (and probably E270 Red) it might not be in the same stratosphere as the Jackson...since he's not in E254......I would give a swag guess if 7k-12k....but again, who knows.....

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>shoot us a photo of that beauty.............<br /><br />I'd agree with Leon's assessment. Could be more though. Due to the scarcity of them, with the right people bidding, could go higher. Amazing what trends the sales of a single card can/could cause.......those PSA Colgans last week cause more SGC and others to be brought out........<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>steve</b><p>This is the Wagner I spoke of in earlier thread. Steve<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1185469934.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>H Murphy</b><p>WOW, Steve that is one hell of nice looking Honus! Congrats and I hope you hold on to it for a while.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>ya learn somethin' every day.<br /><br />thanks guys!<br />MS

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Tom,<br /><br />How many E254's for every e270? What kind of ratio are we talking here?<br /><br />Are there any other "portrait" cards of Jackson? I don't remember seeing a closeup of Joe's grill on anything else. I can visualize this image as a T206 portrait. Photoshop anyone?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Harry Wallace</b><p>Is it possible to post a picture of the back as well?

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Posted By: <b>steve</b><p>Thanks for your input on this card, folks. Here is back scan.<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1185491743.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I believe those Wagner estimates are very low.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hey Tom,<br /><br />I consider the "208" cards as extremely scarce. Much, much more than Tin Tops and Red Borders. That "208" is one fine card. If I had 5 of those nice Wagners I'd gladly swap 2 for one "208". If I had 5 "208" cards I'd not swap one for 2 Wagners.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I concur that they're scarce and haven't seen many on ebay over the years. I had 2 in the lot that I recently sold. Meyer of Newark and one other. Mark Macrae collects them I believe and might be able to speak a little more about them. I would assume they came out later than the ones with no caption like that. Maybe during the middle to end of the run.