Don't you love Ebay sellers who pull auctions early

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Posted By: <b>Jim Clarke</b><p>I think if you are a regular seller it hurts your business by ending items early. One you probally cost yourself money, and two is you piss off people who won't come back to you. I know it is a way of life, but I don't like it. Yes I have asked people to end auctions early as most of have. Hopefully it will be relisted, and there might be a good reason why it was pulled. <br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190133017072&rd=1&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190133017072&rd=1&rd=1</a>

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Posted By: <b>Tony Andrea</b><p>It wasn't me, I swear...........<br /><p>Tony

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Posted By: <b>Larry</b><p>&lt;there might be a good reason why it was pulled<br /><br />like maybe a 10K offer?

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Posted By: <b>Ed</b><p>I'm not sure I get the point. One can ask a seller to end early, but if he does he's playing dirty pool? Glass houses are fragile.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, Charlie sells that card it seems like every week. It'll be back.

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Posted By: <b>Rand</b><p>Does Charlie have a good reputation among the board? seems Jay Behrens had some things to say on another thread (mastro investigation)? i personally have had good dealings with him (ebay) over 3 years.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>you can't have your cake and eat it too.........if you ask to end auctions early, you can't be pissed when someone does and you're not the recipient. I've done the exact same thing you said you've done and it's worked a couple of times. More often than not people let the auction run. If you have ever successfully had someone stop an auction, you don't really have the leg to stand on to be p.o.'ed on another that was closed. JMO........<br />

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I agree with Tom, and I have had nothing but excellent transactions with Charlie.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>EBAY is a business. If, as a seller, you can maximize your profit by ending early, I see no reason not to.<br><br>Frank

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, I agree that ebay is the Wild West of sorts and as a seller if you can end an auction early you do, knowing that you're taking a chance, kind of like picking curtain 1 on "Let's Make a Deal". When I'm bidding on something and it gets ended early I ususally just kick myself for not offering to end it myself.

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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>I agree.... #1 Charlie is a great seller/auctioneer<br /> #2 very hypocriticle statement on JC's part.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>I guess the obvious answer to the title question is, "yes, if I'm the one they pull the auction for".

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I think it's a pain that auctions end early (and it would make me mad as a bidder), and I think it's a pain that bidders don't bid early. Chicken or the egg-wise, snipe bidding led to auctions ending early. Snipe bidding artificially suppresses early and mid auction bidding, which makes the seller nervous that there is no interest in the lot and he might end up losing a lot of money. If a $1,000 lot has a high bid of $5.25 after five days, and there have been no new bids in the last two, you can bet the seller will consider fair offers.

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Posted By: <b>jeffdrum</b><p>The card belongs to the seller until the auction ends and a contract of sorts created. What he/she chooses to do with it until then is their business.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff O</b><p>Frank wrote:<br /><br />"EBAY is a business. If, as a seller, you can maximize your profit by ending early, I see no reason not to."<br /><br />You're right Frank, eBay is a business. It's a business that the seller contracted with to list and display his item. When he ends the auction early to sell it outside of eBay, then eBay loses on the fees that it is rightfully entitled to. Do you really think it's OK to use eBay to get you in touch with a buyer, then not pay them for their service?<br /><br />I've brought this up before, and generally most people don't appear to be bothered by the fact that eBay loses out. Personally I think it's shady, but a lot of people don't seem to have a problem with taking advantage of (cheating) "big business".<br /><br />Jeff

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Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>before I got into vintage, I had a shiny RC of Corey Patterson, the new hot guy, graded by BGS as a 9.5. I posted it and had about three offers within the first few hours. I refused to pull it only because there may have been some people out there who were waiting on it and desired the card. Anyway, highest offer I got was $300 for it and refused. It ended up selling for $500. <br /><br />I think the card is now worth the empty grapefruit juice bottle in the trash.<br><br>Change your socks, drink water, and drive on.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jeff has a good point. It's against Ebay's rules to end auctions early due to receiving an offer in which Ebay is cut out of its fees; therefore, it's wrong. I've done it occasionally; but it is wrong.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Jeff, I don't think there are any saints in the equation. For example, I said snipe bidders are a cause of sellers ending auctions ending early. However, one reason bidders place snipes is because some sellers shill.<br /><br />I agree with your point. It's unethical and unfair for a seller to skip out on eBay fees while using eBay's exposure to gain the sale. If you don't want to pay the fees, don't use eBay. <br /><br />On the other hand (we've got six hands so far, but I never said my arguments were anatomically correct), some would argue eBay has enabled shillers, which has increased snipers, which has increased auctions ending early.<br /><br />It's known as the circle of life.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Anyone ever lost out by not selling early? I know I have....I sold a Rawlings baseball sweater for $200 and I could have ended it early and gotten $400. The guy who made the offer is the one who ended up winning it.<br /><br />I have also on two occasions offered money to end an auction in which the seller refused and I still won the items for way less than I offered. On one occasion I offered $350 and ended up winning the item for $57. Sometimes I'm afraid to send an offer because if they refuse then I feel like they may shill bid if they know I am "that" interested in their item.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Before sniping was all the rage, I had a George Blanda golf trophy on eBay, and a Chicago Bears fan made an offer which was about 2x what I thought it would auction for. I told him to bid and he'd win it for less than his offer. He ended up winning it for less than his offer, and for a price I was satisfied with.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>And I disagree with some of the "con" arguments: <br /><br />First of all, if ebay doesn't do anything to penalize sellers for early endings, I don't blame sellers for ending early. Ebay management obviously doesn't care so long as ebay gets its listing fees. If there's no detriment to pulling the auction, a seller will pull it every time when that "gotta have it" buyer makes a stupid offer. <br /><br />Second, it is incorrect to claim that a seller always leaves money on the table ending early. I have personally made offers on cards that were not accepted, sniped the auction, and won for less than my offer. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p><I>You're right Frank, eBay is a business. It's a business that the seller contracted with to list and display his item. When he ends the auction early to sell it outside of eBay, then eBay loses on the fees that it is rightfully entitled to. Do you really think it's OK to use eBay to get you in touch with a buyer, then not pay them for their service?</I><br /><br />Sounds like somebody owns some EBAY stock.<img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br><br>Frank

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Posted By: <b>Jeff O</b><p>David - there are some important considerations here. Saying that snipes are a cause of sellers ending auctions early doesn't really hold up. The seller chose the list price, and if he chose a list price that is less than he is willing to sell the item for, that's his mistake. Sniping is within the rules and pretty much everyone is aware that it goes on.<br /><br />As for shilling... eBay is far from perfect. We all know how stupid some of the rule are, but we know the rules going into the game when we enter into the contract. Besides which the only way that shilling hurts the seller is, as you mentioned, by encouraging snipes. What's funny is that sometimes snipes end up nailing the buyer - two guys with crazy high snipe bids can make an entire auction a lot more profitable than it would have been otherwise.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong here - I'm not trying to be the ethical police, and I've certainly done a lot of stupid things in my life. I just don't like to see people try to cheat a contract that they freely entered into and benefitted from. <br /><br />The easy solution, one that I've done a couple of times, is put a BIN on the item that is for the amount the buyer is willing to pay. He wins it with the BIN, you make the sale, eBay gets paid. <br /><br />Jeff <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Jeff, ebay allows the seller to end an auction early. Not only that, but one of the reasons listed is to "sell to the current high bidder".

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>My George Blanda trophy auction is an interesting example (and I'm well aware it is just that, one example). First, I lost money by letting the auction end normally. And, two, the person who made the offer ended up being the winning bidder, meaning we wouldn't have cheated out the 'rightful' winner if I had accepted his offer.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff O</b><p>If you choose to end an auction to sell to the high bidder using the option to do so on eBay, I assume you'll pay the fees on the amount of that high bid, correct? That's a lot different than pulling the entire auction and then selling it off-line to avoid the fees, fees you agreed to pay as part of your contract, which is what I'm talking about.<br /><br />Jeff<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><i>Before sniping was all the rage, ...</i><br /><br />I honestly have no idea what the general consensus of the board is regarding how long sniping on eBay has been popular, but as someone who has been a buyer/seller on eBay since the fall of 1997, I can attest to the fact that it pretty much was the norm even then. It's not as if sniping has been prevalent only in the past couple of years.<br /><br />And, it's not like an experienced seller doesn't know sniping is the rule rather than the exception when he enters into the contract to sell his item on eBay. So if you're listing a $500 item, don't be surprised if it's sitting at less than $100 with two days to go.<br /><br />That being said, I've never had a situation as a seller in which ending an auction early would have been better than letting the auction run its course.

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Posted By: <b>hotshot888</b><p>I've had several dealings with Charlie and has always been enjoyable. <br /><br />Albert

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I do not end auctions early and as a bidder, I can’t stand it when sellers do. Once you list a card on ebay, it should remain listed- and sold- especially if there are bids on it. Ending it early deprives ebay of final value fees and deprives sellers of possibly higher bidders/repeat customers. While you can choose to end it early and say ‘sell to current high bidder’ (which does get ebay SOME FVFs), I suspect many who choose this option are getting MORE $ than the actual ‘high bid.' people complain about 'questionable practices' of large sellers/auction houses, but seem to have no complaints when things like ending auctions early benefits them. why?

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>I appreciate the kind words spoken by many of my friends. I look forward to putting some faces with ebay handles and avatars at the National.<br /><br />Ending auctions early on ebay is a difficult desicion. It is something I rarely do but because ebay can be very unpredictable, sometimes it makes sense.<br /><br />If ebay wants every auction to goto completion they should not allow sellers to end auctions early. <br /><br />Off ebay transactions do have a bit more risk. With feedback off the table some ebayers are less inclined to honor their word.<br /><br />In this case, a very good repeat customer, made a very strong offer. I accepted it but not before contacting the high-bidder on ebay to see if he/she was interested in countering the offer that was made. He/she passed and I accepted the offer. <br /><br />I agree with Jeff L, ebay is the wild west and I think it is fair game to make and receive "buy it now" offers on ebay listings. Having said that, the downside to ending auctions early is potential bidder backlash. Sellers have to way the risk vs. reward each time. It is very seldom that I end an auction early but this time the reward was worth the risk. I do respect all the opinions expressed in this thread and will consider them going forward.<br /><br /><br />Jeff L,<br /><br />Will you be at the National/Net54 dinner signing autographs?<br /><br />Rand,<br /><br />The only person infaliable with no enemies on this board is Barry Sloate. Smiley face<br /><br /><br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Jeff O</b><p>"If ebay wants every auction to goto completion they should not allow sellers to end auctions early."<br /><br />Ah yes, the old "well, the system lets me do it, so its OK to do". I suppose the fact that it's against the rules, the rules you agreed to at the time you listed your item, to sell it to someone who solicits you as a result of your eBay auction doesn't really matter. After all, the system lets you do it. eBay is set up so that you can shill too. Is that also fair game?<br /><br />"I agree with Jeff L, ebay is the wild west and I think it is fair game to make and receive "buy it now" offers on ebay listings." <br /><br />Perhaps then you should have set a BIN and let the person win it for that price. Then eBay would have received their fees, which you would have paid them had the auction run its course and you got the same amount as the high bid.<br /><br />You want to use eBay to find customers, but don't want to give them the fees for the service they provide.<br /><br />Jeff

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>Although I have never ended an auction early to sell off-line, I do not feel any obligation to treat EBay fairly. I believe you get treated fairly if you treat others fairly. EBay's practices of deception is motivated by greed and perhaps that's OK, but on the other hand they shouldn't feel slighted if someone cheats them out of a few bucks on an occasional off-line sell. EBay knows when they are going to have "dump days" many days in advance, but they never let sellers know in advance, since they don't want sellers to postpone their normal Sunday listings when they learn that a mid-week "dump day" is coming. Very deceitful, if you ask me. The hiding of the underbidder names was an effort to stop off-line sells, but it sure did create a nice opportunity for the fraudsters. I know of no effort by EBay to stop shilling, even though they know they opened a huge door for this. I doubt that shilling would be hard to block, if they wanted to (at least block bidding on the item from the same IP address that it was listed from).<br /><br />If EBay changed their practices to protect and treat fairly both buyers and sellers I would feel differently.

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Posted By: <b>Tony Andrea</b><p>If Cat didn't say it, I was. "We owe Ebay Nothing". This is the same company who many of us, including myself emailed regarding the hiding of the bidders in their auctions to help prevent<br />the chance of shill bidding. Do you know how many responses I got from them. "ZERO"...........<br />I have a feeling they have cost collector's a bit more in shill bids than what Charlie cost them<br />in Ebay fee's. <br /><p>Tony<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>Excellent points indeed. EBAY is making millions in profits every year. EBAY then spends about ten bucks annually to protect bidders and sellers alike.<br><br>Frank

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jeff O,<br /><br />With all due respect.<br /><br />- eBay receives listing fees when an auction is ended early.<br />- I completed the transaction via paypal which is another 3% for ebay.<br />- I pay ebay various montly fees for the right to advertise and maintain our ebay store.<br />- eBay could choose to have a standing "buy it now" but as it stands after the first bid is received the "buy it now" disappears (unless you have a reserve).<br />- eBay is a community, they bring me many customers and I bring them customers as well. I have sold many cards over ebay to first time ebayers that received my card at a show and then immediately went to register on ebay to buy from my ebay store.<br /><br />Edited to add:<br /><br />I agree with what other board members have said, eBay has not done enough to protect buyers/sellers from fraud,shilling etc... They do not require enough information to start an account. The reason being they are more concerned about the quanity of the community rather than the quality. If they required a Drivers license# or Credit card number to start an account it would immediately cut down on fraud. Yet it would also cut down on revenue. Ebay tries to walk a fine line and it is up to both sellers/buyers to protect themselves from the pitfalls associated with ebay. <br /><br />CB<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>I'm not about to go to the mat for eBay, because the company does many things with which I do not agree. But I am surprised by the many commenters who seem to think that because eBay has shortcomings, it's basically OK to circumvent rules, because eBay "has it coming."<br /><br />Here's a thought: If eBay's business practices bother you so much, don't do business with the company. To call the practice of not giving sellers advance notice of a 10-cent listing day "deceitful" is kind of comical. If you pay $2.49 for a gallon of milk on Saturday at Kroger, and the store sells it for $1.99 on Sunday, do you think that's deceitful? Obviously they knew on Saturday milk was going on sale the next day. Was it deceitful that Kroger didn't give you a three-day heads-up?<br /><br />Again, eBay isn't perfect, and I'm not saying it is. But I've read many a comment on this board from folks whose accounts were compromised, and all of the blame was placed on eBay. Yet many times I could tell by the description of what happened that the victim had in fact been fooled by a scammer and had put himself at risk by providing the scammer with his password. Following some basic rules of Internet use would have prevented the problem, yet it is much easier to blame eBay.<br /><br />OK, rip away.<br /><br /><i>(Edited to fix a typo) x 2</i><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Charlie Barokas is one of the, if not the, most honest, reputable, trusted dealers on the face of the earth.<br /><br />Alan<br />

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Posted By: <b>Silver King</b><p>Potential bidders get mad when auctions end early because they took the time and effort to search out certain items and when they finally do find it, they want to bid. We are all addicted to eBay searches and every now and then there is something that really strikes our fancy. If that particular item ends early, it is very frustrating. I think seller's that end auctions early almost always leave money on the table because most offers do not approach what the auction might bring on a good day. This doesn't mean that all auctions that end early are that way, just a lot of them. I don't know Charlie but it appears he is a veteran and probably wouldn't have accepted a low offer. It appears several people were willing to bid and nowadays nobody bids until the last 10-seconds of the auction so it's impossible to tell how the auction is going. I for one will pay more then fair market value for a few things, but I'm not going to offer it to a seller to end the auction early.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>why is it that most of us know him ,but yet take a chance of puttin him in the line of fire ? I hope noone tells him what day he has to mow his grass ! It is his card to do whatever he wants....way it goes. FInd balance in everything , less dissapointments.<br /><br />This card has been up for grabs 2-3 times in the last year or so.<br />WIn some- lose some.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff O</b><p>I promise this will be my last post on this (unless someone asks a specific question of me).<br /><br />"- eBay receives listing fees when an auction is ended early."<br /><br />Great. But they don't get their final value fee, so they got their $0.20 listing fee. Of course, if you'd sold it via auction for the amount you received for the item, they would have received a lot more, right?<br /><br />"- I completed the transaction via paypal which is another 3% for ebay."<br /><br />You chose to accept PayPal, another contract you voluntarily entrered. You don't have to use it, and if you don't you do not have to pay this expense. <br /><br />"- I pay ebay various montly fees for the right to advertise and maintain our ebay store."<br /><br />This item does not appear to have been sold as part of your store, but as part of an auction. Separate fee structures apply to each, which you agree to by participating.<br /><br />"- eBay could choose to have a standing "buy it now" but as it stands after the first bid is received the "buy it now" disappears (unless you have a reserve)."<br /><br />You knew the rules going in. Since this is so inconvenient, you could always cancel all the bids and close out your auction, then relist with a BIN that was the price you and the buyer agreed to. Then eBay gets their fees (of course, they probably get that extra $0.20 listing fee from the first auction too... I'm sure you could pass that along to the buyer if it's a big deal).<br /><br />" eBay is a community, they bring me many customers and I bring them customers as well. I have sold many cards over ebay to first time ebayers that received my card at a show and then immediately went to register on ebay to buy from my ebay store."<br /><br />eBay brought many more potential customers to you than you ever brought to it, and you are under no contractual obligation to bring them customers. Are there really a lot of people around today who don't know about eBay? Besides which, by listing an item for sale, you entered into a contract, which you then chose to ignore.<br /><br />Here's a list of the rules:<br /><br /><a href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html</a><br /><br />Here's a quote from one of the things that's prohibited:<br /><br />Canceling a listing to sell to a buyer who became aware of the item through eBay<br /><br />Seems pretty clear to me.<br /><br />Look, I'm not trying to single out this seller. I don't know Charlie, and I don't believe I've ever bought anything from him, and this certainly wouldn't stop me from buying something from him via eBay in the future. Believe me, I've had some problems of my own with the folks at eBay. But the rules are clear. Everyone loves to complain about all the things that suck about eBay, but nobody complains when they don't get what's coming to them.<br /><br />And Frank, I don't own any eBay stock... at least not that I know of! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jeff<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Man, this is one of those issues that really has compelling arguments both ways. It's incredible to me that while I know it is against ebay's rules to end auctions early and thus evade ebay's fees I am persuaded by a lot of what the anti-ebay folks say. Their rules are really a one-way street in terms of protection. Charlie is right in that if ebay actually made it difficult to open an account there would be a fraction of the shilling that goes on -- but that would not help ebay's bottom line. The truth is that ebay is a great marketplace, maybe the greatest one we'll ever see online but it is fraught with problems. I don't fault Charlie for ending his auction early as I've done it on occasion and will do it again. I know it's not right...but for some reason it doesn't bother me much due to the kick in the ass that ebay gives all of us on occasion.<br /><br />Edited to add: Jeff O's post above is 100 % right on the money. He's right, period. But still......

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>Rob:<br /><br />A significant difference in your argument is that you can take your Kroger business elsewhere or bypass that specific gas station and go to the next. With an EBay listing, it has already been placed by the time you have been informed of "dump day." Would you advocate dropping your listing and relisting later or selling off-line, once "dump day" is announced?

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Cat,<br /><br />I'm not following your logic, and I don't understand your question at the end. I don't see much of a difference in the milk/eBay listing analogy. If I've already bought the milk at the higher price, I'm stuck with it once it goes on sale. Obviously I didn't think $2.49 was too high of a price to pay, so I don't have a legitimate beef with the seller not letting me know it would be cheaper the next day. Ditto with listing an eBay auction at the regular price a few days before a 10-cent listing day. And answer this honestly: If it were your call to make as the president of eBay, would you really announce three days ahead of time that a 10-cent listing day was coming up, in effect shutting down your business for three days?<br /><br /><i>A significant difference in your argument is that you can take you Kroger business elsewhere</i><br /><br />On this point we agree: If Kroger ticks me off enough, I won't shop there. If eBay's practices bother you enough, my guess is you'll eventually quit giving them your business. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>Rob:<br /><br />My point was not that I could of listed cheaper and saved the fees (small savings) if I knew "dump day" was coming. My point is that once "dump day" happens your items can get lost in the vast amount of listings which in the end hurts your sells price rather significantly. Unfortinately, there is nothing you can do about it since it is already listed. I DON'T WANT MY ITEMS LISTED DURING "DUMP DAY" WEEK. But, due to EBay's policies and failure to inform sellers with enough notice, I can't control this.

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Cat,<br /><br />Gotcha. I honestly didn't realize your point is that it's the volume of listings that bother you rather than the discounted price. I still don't agree that it's "deceitful" to offer a discounted selling day, especially because I doubt that eBay does it for the purpose of harming sellers who listed items a few days before. As for a listing getting "lost," eBay has one of the best site search engines that I've seen, and I don't have much problem doing searches only for items that were listed before a 10-cent listing day. But I can see where that would be a concern if you think a lot of buyers don't know how to use the search engine well.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>For about the last 6 weeks or so when I have put items up for sale on ebay they do not show up in the search for anywhere from 6-12 hours. Ebay says it's because I am listing items when they are indexing and my items get sent to the bottom of their list, but I have varied my days and times of listings and this has happened with every single listing...approximately 100 items. I'll feel bad for ebay losing out on ended items when they reimburse me for the hours (hours that I paid for) that my items do not show up in the search. You can go to ebay's own message boards and see that this is happening to a lot of people.