OJ newbie question

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Posted By: <b>Bill Todd</b><p><br />There's a seller on eBay right now with quite a few OJs that appear more black-and-white than the sepia I'm more familiar with. Here's a link to one:<br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280128246147&rd=1&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280128246147&rd=1&rd=1</a><br />(not outing anything here; the lots are well described and in the right category)<br /><br />So here's my question (well, several, actually)<br /><br />These lots seem to be mostly 1887s. Was there a difference in production methods for the earlier ones vs. the '88s and '89s?<br /><br />The images all seem pretty crisp. Did the B/W process hold up better than the sepia?<br /><br />Are these in fact a different process, or did they all start out that way and most have turned color and/or faded over the last 120 years?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Bill

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>That looks like it's his scanner. I've seen some that border on black and white, but not to that degree.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I know there are going to be some people that are un happy that you brought this up before the auctions have ended but since the cat is out of the bag. I do have something to add about these auctions but do not relate to your questions.<br /><br />I called the seller yesterday and found out that if the cards are authentic they are skinned. They have "very thin photo stock" was his comment. As I asked a few more questions and questioned the authenticity and explained to him that the card stocks on unskinned OJs are very thicked and they are probably skinned if real. He got pissie and told me not to bid on the auction. The guy did use a scanner to make the images. It amazes me why people do not use backgrounds.<br /><br /><br />One thing you will find about advanced OJ collectors is that they are very they tend to hold back some information about toughies, I do believe there are still poses out there that have never been since but only advanced collectors would have a clue which ones they are when they come up. Hopefully you can get some answers for your questions, Bill.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Lee--Good piece of information. From the images presented in the auctions the cards look more to me like Fritsch reprints than genuine Old Judges. You can't tell for sure till you see the cards personally but the scans, to me, don't look right.If I were interested in any of the cards I would request additional scans and then perhaps the cards will look better.

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Posted By: <b>Joseph</b><p>I saw these cards too. The seller's scanner had no problem with color reproduction on hundreds of other lots being sold. So they are what they are, colorwise. Wouldn't touch 'em without holding them first.

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Posted By: <b>Ken W.</b><p>Not meaning to hijack this thread, but... What the heck are these Fritsch reprints that I keep hearing about?! Was this some forger or was this a company making "legitimate" reprint cards so that average folks could enjoy nostalgic looking images? I think things like that are crapola! I have no problem with a company using an old photograph of an old-timer and turning it into a new card. But please don't make something identical to a real vintage card, and simply put the word "reprint" in tiny little letters on it - which, of course, can easily be removed, and then sold as the real thing. Who the hell is Fritsch?

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Larry Fritsch is a major card dealer from Wisconsin, and his company markets many reprint sets. It is completely on the level as a cheap alternative to otherwise expensive originals.

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Posted By: <b>Ken W.</b><p>Thanks, Barry. I do know that name, after all. I always associated him with several collectors issues, e.g. One Hit Wonders, Negro League BB Stars, etc. Never knew that he made reprint sets (of which, I am obviously, not a huge fan).

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Posted By: <b>Bill Todd</b><p>Lee, I know the group's feeling about bringing attention to a lot before it's closed, but I don't think anything was going to sneak through. If they'd been in, say, "Advertising" or "Antiques," I'd have e-mailed someone privately. But there's not much chance that a dozen auctions, all with the words "Old Judge" in the title, in the baseball/pre-1930 category are going to get overlooked.<br /><br />BTW, thanks for the responses so far. I have next to no experience with these, and wouldn't have known about any problems until I had it in my hand to compare to my poor, lonely, Walt Wilmot.<br /><br />Bill

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Bill, the Old Judges started off close to black and white and have aged over the years. Most turned sepia, though you can rarely find some that are close to black and white. So there are natural variations due to aging. Though you'll never see one as black and white as in the above link. The ones that are still the original 'black and white' will still have light color to them-- just no sepia. The ones with the original colors were usually well stored over the years. BMW Sportscards had a high grade Old Judge they pulled directly from a pack, the card hidden from all light for over a century, and it had the original colors.<br /><br />Speaking of identifying original colors, I took a class at a local museum on Byzantine architecture. The insides of the ancient churches were originally painted bright colors and patterns, but the colors/patterns were centuries ago faded away and/or painted over. Do you know how today's historians know how the walls and pillars were originally colored and painted? They look at the original stained glass windows, which are in color and usually show images of the insides of the church.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Well it looks like there will be some disappointed buyers, the bids are getting up there.<br /><br />One question, Is "Al Cod Meyers" a baseball player?<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think he was......one of my fave 19th century poses....<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1183305036.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>What's with the uniform? Never seen one like that.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Dunno.....looked sort of like a football player to me but he's checklisted in baseball.....I thought the pose was great so pried it out of a board member a few years ago....He got my left arm but it's a neat looking N175....

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>AL Meyers<br /><br /><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/myersal01.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/myersal01.shtml</a>