opening vintage packs

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Posted By: <b>scott</b><p> i was looking through the mastro auction catalog from last fall.the vintage unopened including a full box of 1954 topps was amazing.if you bought a pack such as that or unopened into the mid 70's,would you open it?the temptation would be very high indeed.

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>To me, if I had the money and wanted to invest in cards, unopened material from the 1950's would be the way I would go. Scarce but still can be found and the rich guys who are putting together registry sets or people who want to sell to them might buy these and open them to see if they get lucky.<br /><br />If you had a secure storage area, buy and hold would be the theme because human nature takes over and, in time, more of these packs will be opened.<br /><br />Just my two cents,<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>Anthony</b><p>I've got nearly a complete run of Topps, Bowman, Fleer and Leaf packs and have never had the tempation to open them. The chances of pulling a centered card without a wax stain and decent corners of a key card are way to low to even contemplate. The visual appeal and mystery of the pack is the key, and if I was concerned with value it would be worth more sealed than opened. Mine will certainly never be opened.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>First (after wetting myself with glee over owning a whole box of 1954 Topps), I would say that a box of unopened cards is much different than Anthony's COLLECTION of unopened packs. <br /><br />I wouldn't be able to break up that run of packs, either. That stays unopened.<br /><br />BUT, the unopened box of 1954 Topps is totally different!<br />That would be an EVENT!!!<br />I would get a few friends together, gather up some drinks of everyone's choosing, put on the Cubs game, and distribute the packs and take turns opening them.<br /><br />(Of course, everyone will be monitored and if anyone is failing to hold their liquor, then their packs will be taken away and they will only be allowed to watch the game).<br /><br />Edited to add: With my luck of course, the unopened material would turn out to be 1988 Donruss cards wrapped in 1954 Topps wrappers!

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Posted By: <b>rob</b><p>Around 5-6 years ago,I sold my entire horde of unopened 50s/60s/70s packs/racks/boxes to a popular buyer of this material from the NY metro area.<br />He came to my house in Brooklyn,handed over the cash after examining the material,and began ripping into the stuff.Which surprised the heck out of me.I didnt realize he would actually OPEN them....especially in front of me.<br />He opened several 50s Topps cellos,a couple of 60s rack packs,and several racks/packs from the 70s in my presence (most I had purchased over the years from Mark Murphy,the "Baseballcard kid" in CT.Don't think he's in business anymore).He never opened my early-to-mid 70e boxes. I had purchased a few years previously a box of 68 Topps in an auction (Christies?),which he also left alone...that day,anyway. <br />He pulled one or two Aarons and a Mays from the 60s (no Mantles),a Drysdale and a Mays A/S from late 50s Topps cello,and a few other stars (most were in NM-M shape,some centering issues and gum stains)...but overwhelmingly a lot of commons,albeit wonderful-looking vintage commons.<br />It was great to see sharp-cornered,vibrant 58,59,60,64,68 and 71 Topps cards seeing air for the first time in years.<br />I think he was dissapointed in the outcome.<br />But it was still something to see,and it was wholly unexpected. The tension was unbearable!<br />Rob<br />Needless to say,wish I still had the entire collection.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>that seems like weird behavior!<br />unless it was to simply see if it had been tampered with, in which case he can demand a refund without ever transporting them home...<br /><br />if it wasn't that, then maybe a twisted pleasure in trying to make you see what you were missing?<br />hmph...odd<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Guys.. if you ever thinking to open one of those vintage packs, pls video tape it and share the clip. It would be an amazing moment. I would pay $5 for the video clip if one open 52T or 54T pack.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>That was weird behavior, but some people just have money and want you to know it.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>John H.</b><p>Opening the cards wasn't showing off that he had money. Buying them accomplished that.<br /><br />I think I would open the packs. The chance of pulling the two Teds, the Aaron rookie, an early Mays and all of the other HOF'ers in perfect condition would be too much for me to resist. Especially since the '54 Topps set was soooo beautiful.<br /><br />John

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Posted By: <b>robedits</b><p>...but the guy didnt strike me as a show off at all. To the contrary,he was pretty nice. Some Italian guy from Jersey...dont remember his name.<br />I remember the first cello he opened was one of my 58 t cellos. NObody on top,but the first card he pulled out was a dodgers TC. He went "ehh". About the extent of his emotions.<br />He did ask at the outset "you mind if I open some of these here?" I said no,go right ahead. I certianly wouldnt have opened them,as they were (and still would be) worth MUCH more sealed than the chance of pulling a major star.<br />When he yanked out (and I mean he opened these things quickly)stars from my late 50s packs (Aaron,Mays,Drysdale AS,etc) he seemed happy as they were all mint and centered. He tore open all of my 71 T racks and pulled out palmer (I think),2 stargells (from same rack) and some more big names (but still much less than the value of the racks).<br />Biggest card he pulled from everything he opened in front me of was a Mantle A/S from late series 60 pack,which I guess was a pretty big deal.He never opened the 68 Topps Ryan series box I sold to him. Never heard back from him,so I dont know how he did.<br />I also regret selling him my one 52 T 1st series pack,bright and greenish,and I wonder who he got from that one,too.<br />I think for the 8 grand or so he gave me I definitely got the better end of the deal. Still,I wish I had held on to them all. I just got tired of spending so much on unopened material and wanted to break the habit by selling it all.<br />ONly unopened pack I have left in my collection is a couple of Batman unopened packs from the 60s. Don';t know why I held onto them,but I did.<br />Also had an unopened Piedmont pack back around 1990 or so;sold that to a guy in Florida in 1993 (?). He emailed me back and told me he pulled a Joe McGinnity card,stained from direct contact with the cigs but nice otherwise. Don't have the pic file he sent me anymore.<br />I stopped collecting later vintage (50s/60s/70s) about 6 years ago when James Ryan (he of the White PLains shows) cherry picked the rest of my collection and older sets/stars (really nice guy)and I will now be starting up collecting wacky tobaccy cards!<br />My mom's great uncle was Nap Rucker (pitched for Dodgers early century),and I've already got the T212 (?)foldout of him as well as a nice mint silk-blanket...so I might focus on him for a while once I get going again (I met him for the only time down in GA right before he died in the 70s...was fascinated with his old uniform,hat and bats.Wish I had some of them for curiousity's sake. He was well liked in his community (I seemed to remember him being a local politician),but a real codger with little time for kids.<br />Anyway,LOVE this forum and Old Cardboard magazine...you guys and your stories fascinate me...thanks for letting me digress. I'm usually just a lurker.<br />Rob Brooklyn NY

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Thanks for the story.....here's a Nap Rucker card that is my favorite one of him....take care now.....(of course I have shown this before but then again, I am an addict)......<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1182951498.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>robedits</b><p>I've seen those Garter cards before;beautiful.<br />COnsidering I'm a student of baseball history (I've got more baseball history books;such as Whos Who from 20s to the present and old encyclopedias than I can shake a stick at...I gobble this stuff up),I wish I had begun collecting early-century cards rather than 50s stuff,back when I began collecting in earnest in the early 80s. Hey,you have to start somewhere,right? I find myself now drawn to turn of the century items,especially Rucker items. I recently found out my uncle Robert Rucker (who I was named for) has Nap's actual last-year cap;he's had it for 40 years and is in his 80s himself now.He knows of my collecting fervor....but I don't have ther nerve to ask for the cap as I'd come off as greedy.<br />***Your collection inspires me,Leon. .....That beautiful,1880s unopened ciggy pack you have has piqued my interest for a long time...surprised noone has purchased it yet <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />Thanks for a great site.<br />Rob Brooklyn, NY

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Thanks for the kind words about my humble collection. I know there are hundreds or thousands better but I like it all the same. I do want to clarify one thing on the Cameo pack. It is not unopened but is mint shape with all contents included. It is an international one and never had a card in it. They look about 99.8% the same as the American ones.... The whole carton and 25 of those packs will be on ebay this evening....now there's a shameless, guiltless plug.....(house rules and it was on topic)....best regards

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Posted By: <b>D.C. Markel</b><p>I'm not a big fan of buying vintage packs. The odds are definitely against you if you open them. For those who choose not to open, that's fine, but I'd rather spend the money on something I can see and fully appreciate.<br /><br />I think opening them in the presence of the seller is a smart idea. I've heard of many types of scams where people believe or know for certain that they've been defrauded with "unopened material". <br /><br />I heard an interesting story at the Houston Tri-Star show several weeks ago. Last January a seller come into the Houston Tri-Star show with three ungraded 1950’s vintage packs and as best as the person telling the story recalls they were ‘52 Topps, ‘54 Topps and ‘57 Topps. The amazing thing was that if you looked closely through the back of each pack, you could see that each had a star card and the person telling the story said one was a Banks, another a Mantle and he forgot who was the third star. The seller wanted $1500 for the three and naturally a dealer jumped all over the offer and bought them instantly with cash. Very shortly after the show the dealer decided to open them and found that the semi-visible star card was nothing more than a color, full-scale scan or photocopy on thin paper and the rest of the pack contained worthless cardboard cut to the right size with a fresh piece of gum. The dealer contacted the police and found out that this person most likely pulled the same scam with some local card shops. The good news was that they eventually tracked down the seller, apparently because he left his phone number with another dealer at the same show regarding a sale of some autograph items. The dealer did get his money back and still has the wrappers, but apparently no charges were filed since the seller claimed he bought them from someone else and the police felt it would be difficult to discredit that story in a criminal case.

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Posted By: <b>Turner Engle</b><p>D.C.- Very interesting story. Makes you wonder about the people who are true card collectors, compared to the scammers in this hobby. Sad.