T206 Southern League Official Pop Report

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I wanted to try and see on the board the pop's members here have of SL'gers. Would be interesting with the debates about the Shaughnessy and such if it really is much more rare than thought. Obvoiusly it may not be very precise with what is actually out there...but lets see. We don't have to post scans, that would take forever. But just a list of which southern leaguers you have, and how many? Please...only list the cards you currently have, not the ones you had.<br /><br /><br /><br />11. Persons 26<br />12. Cranston 23<br />13. Foster 26<br />14. Mullaney 24<br />15. Revelle 26<br />16. B.Hart (Little Rock) 24<br />17. Manion 24<br />18. Ellam 27<br />19. C.Smith 21<br />20. Ryan 23<br />21. Lafitte 23<br />22. Howard (Savannah) 26<br />23. Shaughnessy 29<br />24. Smith (Atlanta) 24<br />25. Fritz 27<br />26. Molesworth 26<br />27. Coles 29<br />28. Paige 23<br />29. Bay 24<br />30. Reagan 24<br />32. Keirnan 25<br />33. Stark 23<br />34. Lipe 25<br />35. Otey 21<br />36. Breitenstein 28<br />37. Jordan (Atl) 26<br />38. Hickman 23<br />40. Lentz 25<br />41. Perdue 26<br />43. Bastian 29<br />44. Thornton 28<br />45. Bernhard 22<br />46. Violat 22<br />47. Guiheen 24<br />48. Helm 23<br />49. Greminger 23<br />50. Hooker 24<br />51. King 23<br />52. Miller (Dallas) 27<br />53. Orth 28<br />54. McCauley 27<br />55. Hart (Montgomery) 32<br />56. Rockenfeld 25<br />57. Seitz 21<br />58. White (Houston) 23<br />61. Carey 29<br />63. Thebo 23<br />74. Westlake 24<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>My list is short for current holdings.<br /><br />Bill Hart 1<br />Perry Lipe 1<br />James Westlake 1<br />

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Foster<br />McCauley<br />Paige

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Posted By: <b>judson hamlin</b><p>One of each except Thornton. Shaughnessy was one of the tougher ones for me as many have indicated, along with Molesworth.

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Posted By: <b>tyler</b><p>Bay PSA 2<br />Jordan PSA 4<br />Orth PSA 3 <br />Ryan PSA 3

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Posted By: <b>Dave S</b><p>Per your numbering:<br /><br />15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 27(2), 29, 34, 36, 37, 38, 40, 43(2), 46, 48, 51, 52, 55, 56, 57, 61(2)

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Posted By: <b>Mike Ellis</b><p>I have all of them (1 of each).

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...but now I'm down to:<br /><br />Coles<br />Cranston<br />Lentz (Sentz)<br />Molesworth<br />Mullaney<br />Revelle<br />Shaughnessy<br /><br />I should note that my decision to keep Coles, Shaughnessy and Revelle was based on the perceived difficulty in my future ability to reacquire them. I also added Cranston after my purge because he is also a toughy. I'd really like to add an SGC 40 or 50 Persons or Foster, if someone has one.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I have one of each.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>MEWheat</b><p>1 each of Bastian, Bay, Bernhard, Breitenstein, Cranston, Ellam, Hickman, Jordan, Kiennan, King, Lentz, McCauley, Miller, Mullaney, Orth, Persons, Seitz, Shaughnessey and Westlake; 2 of Carey

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>interesting survey work, Dave.<br />i have all but Bernhard,Fritz,Helm,Otey,Persons,SidSmith,Seitz.<br /><br />For some reason, ole Shag was real easy to get early on.<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />barry

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Posted By: <b>Ray Piskadlo</b><p>My SL are:<br /><br />Bastian, Ellam, Greminger, Hart (montgomery), Helm, Kiernan, King, Lafitte, Lenz, Miller, Molesworth, Reville, Shaughnessy, Stark, Thornton.

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Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>DAVE F<br /><br />I have all 48.......with Piedmont 350 backs<br /><br />OLD Mill backs.....Bastian, Breitenstein, Foster, Hart (Montgomery), McCauley, Miller, Orth, Perdue,<br /> Persons, Rockenfeld, 2 - Thornton's<br /><br />Brown HINDU's.....Breitenstein, Ellam, Fritz, Guiheen, Hooker, Jordan, Thornton, Violat

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Fritz 3<br />Breitenstein 3<br />Reagan 3

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Cobby..is that three of each?

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>14. Mullaney <br />23. Shaughnessy <br />28. Paige <br />32. Keirnan <br />35. Otey <br />37. Jordan (Atl) <br />40. Lentz <br />41. Perdue <br />53. Orth <br />54. McCauley <br />55. Hart (Montgomery) <br /><br />HOOKER<br /><br />edited to add HOOKER

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Posted By: <b>Dave Snyder</b><p>I've got the following:<br /><br />Orth<br />Rockenfeld<br />Hart (Montgomery)<br />Miller (Dallas)<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>one of each.<br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Dave- Yes, 3 of each.

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Posted By: <b>S Gross</b><p>Just my one Howard.<br /><br />Long ago when I first got interested in vintage BB cards (a whole five years ago), my first "set" was the 48 So.Lgrs. I do remember the last two cards I got were Otey and Hart (Mont.). But I do not remember thinking any one was harder to fine than any other. Maybe being new to collecting I never thought about it. I do know I had Shag (1 v. 4; 2 v. 3) early on, because he was (and is) one of my fav's (Shag is sooooooooo cool). I also know I had Persons early on, because he was (and is) one of my least favorites (the fat slob). Oh, and once I completed it, I sold it, and broke even. I now wish I hadn't, even in just four years the prices I've seen are amazing .... oh well ..... <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Mullaney<br />Persons<br />Stark San Antonio<br />White Houston<br />

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Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>I have all 48 Southern Leaguers. Won them as a lot on ebay back in 1998. It was my biggest purchase and the best. I already had all 48 cards, but they were in fair to very good condition. The lot on ebay looked nice so I placed a bid. I won them for $1825. Immediately after winning the auction, I put all on mine on ebay in individual auctions. I received a total of $1300 for all of my cards. When I received the lot of Southern Leaguers, I was amazed how nice they were, so I started sending them into SGC to be graded, 5 to 10 at a time. Here are the results:<br /><br />1- SGC 88<br />4- SGC 86<br />1- SGC 84<br />7- SGC 80<br />16- SGC 70<br />12- SGC 60<br />3- SGC 50<br />1- SGC 40<br />1- SGC 30<br /><br />PS My wife had a fit when I placed the bid, but as you can see, I did alright. BB<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1179527980.JPG"> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1179527945.JPG"> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1179528090.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Scott T</b><p>I have one of each except for Sgah and Ed Foster.<br /><br><br>Scott <br />

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>One each of the following:<br />11. Persons <br />12. Cranston <br />13. Foster <br />14. Mullaney <br />15. Revelle <br />16. B.Hart (Little Rock) <br />19. C.Smith <br />20. Ryan <br />22. Howard (Savannah) <br />23. Shaughnessy <br />25. Fritz <br />26. Molesworth <br />27. Coles <br />29. Bay <br />30. Reagan <br />32. Keirnan <br />33. Stark <br />34. Lipe <br />35. Otey <br />36. Breitenstein <br />38. Hickman <br />41. Perdue <br />43. Bastian <br />47. Guiheen <br />48. Helm <br />52. Miller (Dallas) <br />54. McCauley <br />55. Hart (Montgomery) <br />56. Rockenfeld <br />61. Carey <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p><br />Just one SL<br /><br />Paige

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Posted By: <b>Matthew</b><p>Anxious to see the results of this survey. Sold of all my dupes over the past 2 months so now I am down to 1 of all of them except Jordan. Still looking for that one.

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Posted By: <b>Jim Harkins</b><p>I have one of each southern leaguer. In addition I have an additional Coles, Hart Montgomery, Hart Little Rock, Kiernan, Manion, and Thebo.<br />None are graded.

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Posted By: <b>Mike Ernst</b><p>I have one of each--don't remember the relative difficulty of each (back to '72-73)

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>I have 1 Persons

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Thanks for all the input so far guys. I'll update from Steve M. down in the morning at some point...too tired tonight and can't keep eyes open.

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Posted By: <b>Chris East</b><p>I've got one Hart (Montgomery)

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Posted By: <b>Rich H.</b><p>I have one of each plus the following additional copies:<br /><br />Carey<br />Foster<br />Ellam<br />Hart (Jimmy<br />Howard<br />Lafitte<br />Orth<br />Thornton

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Should be updated to this point.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Very interesting results and I, for one, appreciate the efforts in compiling the info. and providing it.<br /><br />I say interesting results because the results do not seem to be in line with the PSA and SGC pop. reports. Maybe because the people on this Board collect more of the scarce cards, thus, the results show a relative "scarcity" of the more common cards? Don't know...

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Posted By: <b>judson hamlin</b><p>I would also note that all mine are raw (except Molesworth) and I would guess many of the others are as well. If we want to expand the detail of the survey, my backs are:<br /><br />Hindu: 13<br />Old Mill: 33<br />Piedmont 350: 1<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Bill,<br />What a great buy. Congrats. That beats my Southern League purchase by a mile. I bought a group of 21 different that averaged about EX in a David Festberg auction about ten years ago. I don't remember the exact total, but I believe I paid about $40/card.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Here you go:::<br /><br />BASTIAN 3<br />BAY 2<br />BERNHARD 3<br />BREITENSTEIN 5<br />CAREY 4<br />COLES 6<br />CRANSTON 3<br />ELLAM 4<br />FOSTER 4<br />FRITZ 6<br />GREMINGER 3<br />GUIHEEN 3<br />J.HART 3<br />B HART 2<br />HELM 3<br />HICKMAN 3<br />HOOKER 5<br />HOWARD 4<br />JORDAN 3<br />KIERNAN 3<br />KING 2<br />LAFITTE 4<br />LENTZ 2<br />LIPE 3<br />MANION 3<br />MCCAULEY 3<br />MILLER2<br />MOLESWORTH 3<br />MULLANEY 2<br />ORTH 2<br />OTEY 2<br />PAIGE 3<br />PERDUE 4<br />PERSONS 4<br />REAGAN 2<br />REVELLE 3<br />RYAN 2<br />SEITZ 2<br />SHAUGHNESSY 6<br />SID SMITH 6<br />C. Smith 2<br />STARK 2<br />THEBO 3<br />THORNTON 6<br />VIOLAT 2<br />WESTLAKE 3<br />WHITE 2<br />Rockenfeld 2<br /><br /><br />Be well Brian<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Martin Neal</b><p>I have all of them except Foster, Breitenstein, Paige, and Shaughnessy. I had a Psa 5 Foster, but was sold to complete a set being auctioned in the Rea Auction a year ago. I regret selling almost every card I sell, it must be a sickness.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Thanks for the updates guys...I'll add the numbers in tonight!

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I have all the above, plus these extras below. Hope this helps....<br /><br />Bastian<br />Bay<br />Breitenstein<br />Carey<br />Foster<br />Greminger<br />Kiernan<br />McCauley<br />Orth<br />Perdue<br />Reagan<br />S. Smith<br />Bernhard<br />Coles<br />Guiheen<br />Hart (Mont)<br />Lipe<br />Miller<br />Molesworth<br />Revelle<br /><br />Dave you are correct in your guess on Hart.

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Posted By: <b>DaveW</b><p>I've got 'em all, with only one duplicate, Orth.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I "think" I am up to speed....<br /><br />Wonka...on your dupes you listed....is the 2nd Hart Montgomery or Little Rock? I guessed Montgomery for the time being, if I am wrong let me know and I'll change.

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Posted By: <b>Robert Reiss</b><p>Have all except:<br /><br />Cranston<br />Foster<br />Fritz<br />Hickman<br />Kiernan<br />Lafitte<br />Mullaney<br />Reagan<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>It does look kind of interesting that there doesn't seem to be any disparity across the board. Pretty even numbers throughot. I would also think that maybe the tougher ones are just sought after a little more by the board? Plus, everyone that owns one of each as a subset...kind of throws things off a bit.

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Posted By: <b>Rob NYC</b><p>Jack Bastian SL PSA 3 Piedmont 350 Fac.25<br />Tony Thebo SL PSA 3 Old Mill (Texas) Fac.25<br />Foley White SL PSA 2 Piedmont 350 Fac.25<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Added yours Rob. <br /><br />If anyone else has any to add...would love to see whta kind of numbers we end up with. Still can't believe it is pretty even across the board.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>....explanation of how he came up with the relative scarcities among the Southern Leaguers. It sure appears that Persons isn't any harder than the others.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>all 48, plus an second Hart, Montgomery.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Paul, it may have to do with the fact so many here collected one of each...and nothing more. Totally throws off any true numbers as far as scarcity are concerned.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...about that. But I still think that the relative scarcities of the Southern Leaguers may be a more shallow curve than the curve from Demmitt to Persons or O'Hara to Foster.

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Posted By: <b>bill latzko</b><p>I have each one of the southern leaguers in psa 4 and again each one in either psa 5 or psa 6 since I'm trying to get all of this group in psa 6.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>If time permits over the next few days...I'm considering trying to look up all auctions for SL'ers over the past year or so on ebay, auction houses etc. See how many of each card have come up for auction in that time period...but, will take a bit of time to do.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>That exercise may be relevant to scarcity "in the marketplace" but I don't think it is relevant to your census. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Levy</b><p>One of each plus<br />1 extra Seitz +<br />1 extra Violat (Old Mill Brown Back)

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Here are the SLer totals and difficulty ranks from my 18-month eBay survey:<br /><br />Subject Total, Difficulty Rank<br />Bastian 16, 64T<br />Bay 14, 45T<br />Bernhard 11, 26T<br />Breitenstein, 10, 19T<br />Carey 12, 33T<br />Coles 12, 33T<br />Cranston 13, 39T<br />Ellam 9, 16T<br />Foster 4, 7T<br />Fritz 6, 10<br />Greminger 8, 12T<br />Guiheen9, 16T<br />B. Hart (Little Rock) 7, 11<br />J. Hart (Montgomery) 11, 26T<br />Helm 13, 39T<br />Hickman14, 45T<br />Hooker 10, 19T<br />E. Howard (Savannah) 15, 55T<br />A.O. Jordan (Atlanta) 10, 19T<br />Kiernan12, 33T<br />King 19, 114T<br />Lafitte8, 12T<br />Lentz 17, 81T<br />Lipe 13, 39T<br />Manion 10, 19T<br />Miller 21, 147T<br />McCauley 12, 33T<br />Molesworth 16, 64T<br />Mullaney 12, 33T<br />Orth 17, 81T<br />Otey 12, 33T<br />Paige 8, 12T<br />Perdue 17, 81T<br />Persons18, 95T<br />Reagan10, 19T<br />Revelle8, 12T<br />Rockenfeld 16, 64T<br />Ryan 13, 39T<br />Seitz 13, 39T<br />Shaughnessy 14, 45T<br />C. Smith (Shreveport) 19, 114T<br />S. Smith (Atlanta) 10, 19T<br />Stark 11, 26T<br />Thebo 18, 95T<br />Thornton 4, 7T<br />Violat 9, 16T<br />Westlake 21, 147T<br />F. White 21, 147T<br /><br />The difficulty ranks provided herein differ from those published in my manuscript. The reason is that I regarded the sample size of my eBay survey as too small to draw meaningful conclusions about relative scarcity. So, rather than using data from my eBay survey to estimate relative scarcity, I relied on the PSA population report totals extant at the time, weighted for price and condiition (on the theory that higher priced subjects are more likely to be submitted for grading and subjects whose graded examples are in lower average condition are more difficult). Those of you who are disinclined to believe population reports may prefer the above rankings based on the substantially smaller, but possibly more reliable, eBay survey sample.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Does anybody know why there are multiple entries for some T206's on the PSA Pop. report (that do not denote variations), e.g. Thornton (3 different entries) and Ed Foster (3 different entries)???