Too many off topics again....suggestions?

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Again I feel there are becoming too many off topic posts. Heck, I posted a thread with an E98 question this morning and got nary a response. That's fine no big deal. Maybe no one knew or was interested. It happens. The issue is when I look down the front page there are almost as many, if not as many, threads about things other than our cards or collecting our cards....I think talking about pre-war collecting is fine...and of course the cards are fine but everything else so much? I know I can put a few day moratorium on OT posts but is that the right thing to do? I am open on how to get the board back on track...I have my own ways but want to see if anyone else has a better way. I wouldn't mind seeing a few less threads if they were all card based or related subjects as is the focus of the board.... Am I off base? (pun intended)...regards<br /><br />ps....this is not aimed at any one person that has started an OT....it's a general question...<br /><br />edited to add that, depending on how you count them, about 1/3 are technically off topic, imo...is that too many?

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>Well i for one like any thread related to old time baseball. I love to learn about the cards, but there's more to baseball then just old time advertisement pieces. I really enjoy learning about the players, debating stats and their historical significance. Now maybe their are other forums for this but I think many of the people here are as knowlegable as they come and enjoy the baseball related threads. As for off topic threads that have to do with modern collectables or dont even involve baseball, those should be kept few and far between. But I certainly dont think there's anything wrong with a thread or two everyday that has to do with prewar baseball but not necessarly pre war cards. Just my two cents.

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>before you post think....what does this have to do with pre war baseball cards? if you cannot come up with an answer don't post it here. there are sport talk forums out there for all this OT stuff. read the forum rules "Pre-WWII baseball cards and related subjects" so there is room for baseball history,grading etc...keywords BASEBALL, prewar ,cards.

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>from a young g's perspective...<br /><br />1. if u have to put o/t in title, don't hit respond...<br />2. if u have to put o/t in the title, do NOT hit respond<br />3. no need to post trivial daily events, that's what yahoo news, tmz, and espn.com is for<br />4. we get it, youtube is cool...enough with the links<br />5. stop hijacking threads, this is not the water cooler<br />6. try using the search function more<br />7. this is a pre WWII board, where the holocaust, Green Peace, and Rage Against the Machine don't exist, no need to veer toward them...that'll save the 300 posts threads and getting off-course<br />8. more card talk, less emphasis on the slab please<br />9. use common sense and you can figure out whether seller should give feedback first?, should i buy insurance? best way to protect myself from being scam? if you're still not sure, email jeff lichtman or peter spaeth. i agree with most of their views <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />10. if 2 minutes have passed and the refresh button shows no new message and you want to start an O/T topic to get the board going again...DO NOT HIT RESPOND.<br /><br />i hope the combination of sarcasm/truth/levity is right.

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Thanks for standing back and thinking through these things, Leon.<br />Your investment in bringing about the right and the good on this board<br />is much appreciated.<br />I am basically a researcher and thrive on research issues related to my<br />beloved T206s, as you know.<br />I personally would like to see O/T reigned in a bit,perhaps a limit of<br />10% or so, with the hope that vintage card research might become primary again.<br />I've sent you an email Leon.<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />Barry

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Posted By: <b>Anthony</b><p>What Quan said.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Despite Quan's insinuation, I have never hijacked a water cooler.

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Posted By: <b>Ed</b><p>(delete)

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Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>You nailed it. How many people will listen?

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Leon- there are two ways the board goes off topic.<br /><br />A thread may start with an interesting question but veer off course somewhere in the middle. I think that is natural, similar to two friends having a conversation that heads in a different direction. At that point the original question may have already been answered, so the digression isn't a big deal.<br /><br />But the bigger problem is when someone starts a thread that has nothing to do with vintage cards, and covers himself by apologizing for the off topic post. I noticed this morning someone started a thread about which of two boxers would win if matched up against each other. I think you have the right as moderator to delete those without any fear of retribution.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p> So far so good. I don't want this place to become stale but at the same time I do want to mainly talk about the focus of the site. For the record I probably wouldn't delete too many threads but I would be inclined to locking them with an explanation. I think all who have responded so far have been very fair and "on topic" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>....again, thanks to all for making this a great place to come to talk cards and thanks for the collective wisdom of this board. It's really monumental, imho...Please keep the suggestions coming....best regards<br /><br />Barry A- thanks for the email too....

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>To elaborate a bit- often someone asks a simple question and it is answered thoroughly within a handful of posts. If the thread digresses at that point, not a big deal. If that same digression occurs before the original question is answered and a poster decides a youtube video would be a lot funnier, then that can be considered a hijacked thread.<br /><br />We're all friends and have been posting here for a long time, and sometimes guys just like to have fun.

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy Piccuito</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />as you may know I have only been a member of this board a few months and have noticed a trend in off topics, I like discussions about all vintage sports items mostly baseball. I thought there would be more about the history and collecting, there have been only a few interesting topics. The separation of the B/S/T and the main board is a great idea, as a dealer and collector, the main board is place that you can go and get away from the buying and selling. I have always been a collector first and have enjoyed discussions about the vintage items members talk about everyday. What I have seen mostly are discussions that seem to involve two or three parties that tend to get off topic, which can make it difficult for the rest of the members to respond.<br /><br />Take care<br /><br />Jimmy<br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt E.</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1178286439.JPG"> <br />Lock the threads Leon and people will get the message eventually.<br /><br />Over the past 24-36 months I have seen many OT posts that start "this is my one for the year" as if it were an entitlement. Not sure who created that rule but I always found that annoying.<br /><br />I agree with Quan, no more You Tube links. period.<br /><br />Even the stock market needs correcting every once in awhile, maybe Net 54 needs a correction to get back on course.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />In our view, the raison d'etre for this Board is to discuss issues related to early baseball cards<br />and perhaps early baseball memoribilia. It is not a venue to discuss rock n roll, politics, romance,<br />dogs, murders at universities or the deaths of famous or infamous entertainers.<br /><br />If people want to lobby for a politician or a cause let them do on a site which focuses on<br />that issue.<br /><br />In our view, the best way to addres the "off topic" problem is to ban all off topic posts.<br />After one or two warnings ban those people who insist on using this Board as a platform<br />for issues which have little or nothing to do with Old Cardboard.<br /><br />As moderator you have the right, if not the responsibility, to lock any and all off-topic threads.<br /><br />If you make the penalty severe enough and you enforce vigorously no one will commit the<br />crime.<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>With all due respect we have a little different view on punishment fitting the crime. From your previously stated reasoning I should still be in prison for my drug possession charge from 23 years ago....but I do appreciate your view...Everyone should have a right to voice their opinion..take care

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Leon, I tend to look at it the other way than Barry S.<br />If a thread is interesting, is getting alot of response, then those are the threads I wish weren't hijacked quite so much - often there's still meat on the bones to be had......while some of the more seasoned and knowledgable voices may already have been heard and feel the questions answered, hearing a multitude of opinions is the way to truly learn something new, something you hadn't heard framed quite that way before..<br />But an OT, posted as such, doens't faze me at all and makes it super easy to read if i'm interested or not.<br /><br />I think banning political/religious/familal reference discussion is fine, but as most who join in on the board are huge sports fans - not just baseball and baseball cards, then the odd thread on current day sporting issues is pretty natural fodder.<br />If you want the board to be about friendships as much as baseball cards, as you have often quoted, then friendly banter about OT sporting topics would seem a fit.<br /><br />JMO<br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Leon, haven't you noticed that you're in virtual prison in this forum? (Key Twilight Zone music)

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Agreed...But it's the frequency as of late that I am a little concerned about...that's all....

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Posted By: <b>Steve f</b><p> All valid points and I for one get carried away, and giddy. Especially when in between med doses. <br /><br /> Some of these OT's are important to build comraderie (sp), trust and to just simply be civil. While rarely is my OT pertinent in the purist sense... Realize that weddings, okay bachelor parties, dinners, Al Rosen, modern memorabilia, ebay scams, Meet's, funny photos, seinfeld, even current MLB/sports topics can conjur up a prewar notion.<br /><br /> I believe that some OT's can show the human side to this braintrust and possibly coax a reluctant lurker to jump in. Some members think of the VBC as a library, I do too, but it's okay to step into the Children's Wing from time to time(and my local library has videos now too).<br /><br /> Leon, You do a good job here -establishing the ying/yang. But I'm certain it gets weary. You may want to consider this option... I'm thinking, if a member has issue with anothers' post, suggest he shoot the OT poster a <u>tactful</u> note, most folks are accomodating and wish to be liked. <br /><br /> Email welcomed and jokes okay but please, no girly pics.<br /><br /> Steve Falletti<br /> fdnyladder7@comcast.net<br /><br /> <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Daniel's point is well taken, as who is to say when a question has been fully answered. I agree that my response was flawed.<br /><br />Two suggestions: if a thread starts to veer, no reason why the next poster can't go back to the original point and get things back in order.<br /><br />Second, I think part of Leon's job as moderator is exactly what the title suggests: to moderate the forum. If he sees we have digressed too far, he can request we get back to the issues. It doesn't entail locking or deleting.<br /><br />As a sidenote, one topic that seems to be incredibly popular on this board is Seinfeld. I bring this up because while it has absolutely nothing to do with vintage cards, many of us genuinely have fun with it. So my question is when is it acceptable to talk about it, and at what point does it go too far? Or is it just better to say Seinfeld discussion is banned (please don't go that far <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>)

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Posted By: <b>shane</b><p>Leon,<br />I hear what you are saying about posting and not getting any response. I posted a message on the BST board and some ass just responded that the message was boring for him. <br />Sometimes it is hard to think of good topics to start. Some of the best topics come out of the worst threads. I agree that there is too many O/T threads and there should be a moritorium on them.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Shane

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>As the old timers to this board I use to contribute much more to this board. In the last year it has gotten so bad with O/T threads that I have really become disinterested with responding only to threads with T206 in the title that look interesting. On any given day the topics on the first page are 50% off topic.<br /><br />I think Quan really nailed it with his response. There needs to be restraint from everyone whether starting a thread or responding to an O/T thread. The site has morphed into I don't know what, every where from Bonds theards to Yogi threads to daily topics to hypothetical who's this and who's that. I think the majority of us come here to talk vintage baseball cards.<br /><br />My suggestion to Leon is to delete the threads and seend a private email to the poster. These threads clutter up the main topics of the board. You were able to keep the greatest thread ever on the T206s clean I know we can do it for the whole board.<br /><br />I personally come to this board to learn, talk and contribute about vintage baseball cards. Not have a USA Today version of sports with vintage baseball cards thrown in.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>greg</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />Since you are asking for "suggestions" I thought I would give one.<br /><br />While I understand that there are many that only want to see cards being discussed on this forum (and rightly so), I (myself included) can also see that many are interested in the general topic of pre-war baseball and pre-war memorabilia. While I can't see the rationale for discussing current events here, I can see some reason or validity to discussing a pre-war pennant or uniform (not exactly unrelated to the topic in general).<br /><br />Is it possible to have a category for this, just like the B/S/T, Vintage Links, and Forum Rules links? Call it something like "Vintage Baseball Discussion and Memorabilia" ? I know there is the Game Used Forum, but sometimes there are others on here that may have this common, and very related, interest.<br /><br />This way, those who only want to see posts relating only to cards don't have to be bothered by the other material, even though it's just as relavent to our national pastime.<br /><br />Just my two cents, again....you asked for suggestions.<br /><br />Greg<br /><br />(edited because I forget to add something)

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>There are other sites for Memorabilia and I would consider those threads off topic on this board. I do appreciate suggestions but this was started as a "cards" board and I feel very strongly about keeping it focused in that direction. I also feel the more off topic it goes the less I am comfortable with...In other words maybe a Ruth signed ball question is OT but not as bad as "lets talk about the grand slam of tennis". As for having another area, on this site, to discuss those subjects I am not sure I want that as the moderating is already a wee bit time consuming.....I am listening to all thoughts though....but digressing away from the main focus of the board would be a very hard pill for me to swallow....thanks for the viewpoint though.....it's appreciated and heard...<br /><br />Lee B....our sentiments are very similar but I have learned about deleting threads and will do it very rarely.....Your brother helped me see the light on that issue.... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Leon, You now have a topic aboout Baron Davis,Swatches, Cepeda,Boxing, Schilling, & Topps. This is just on the first page and pretty obvious to me that they do not need to be on this board.<br /><br />Once again, Just my opinion, but I see from other responses there more that feel this way.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>greg</b><p>Thanks for the reply Leon.<br /><br />While I am not a "card collector", but more of a "team collector" of pre-1920 Red Sox, I enjoy (most of the time) reading the posts on here as they relate to something dear to my heart.<br /><br />It's too bad that there isn't more give and take with people of like intersts as I think that living within the so called "box" can make one a little narrow in focus. (I'm not implying you are, but the concept in general). I can't for the life of me see how Dan asking for period photographs of the guys we are fascinated with on these little pieces of cardboard is taboo, or someone posting a picture of a rare pennant from 1912 gets people all hot and bothered. That being said, I completely understand the original purpose of the forum and I thank you for listening to any suggestions.<br /><br />Oh well, I tried....<br /><br />Greg

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Greg,<br /><br />This board has morph from it's focus. What you are looking for can be better achieved on the other board you mwntioned. Try there.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Lee- are you discussing this board or promoting the other one? Not clear.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>If prewar photographs are off topic I guess I can go elsewhere to discuss those. I didn't realize that people would be bothered by that thread, but hey whatever. I certainly don't see some of the loudest complainers in this thread EVER starting threads. I ask prewar baseball card questions all the time and hardly ever get a response, as if this stuff is some kind of national security state secret. OH NO someone might be on to the great Old Judge secret. OH NO someone talked about T205's now the price is going to skyrocket.

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Posted By: <b>Scot</b><p>.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Yes, so are cabinet cards so stop posting those as well. I don't want to see any more ticket stubs, programs, or cigarette packs that didn't contain cards either.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />I now where in any of my responses made reference or indicted that there is another board or that any one should go to it. This is brought up by you and I am responding to the you. <br /><br />I am making suggestions as to how to get the focus back to it's original intent and the reason the "majority" of the people read this board. Obviously there are some that have made this an open forum. If that's the way it's going to be, than that's the way it's going to be. I will morph back to being frustrated about the board and not say much.<br /><br />Lee<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Personally I consider old baseball photo's and especially cabinet cards not too off topic....I think most of the board would feel this way too.....Since they show a ton about our pasttime, when the cards were made, I rarely have a problem with those threads....it's the other stuff I am talking about....

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Boy, I love how this board can spin a response. I was responding to Greg's original post and did not see his follow up. I have never had a problem with the way Dan has handle his collecting and interests on this board.<br /><br />What did get out of hand here is when there was discussions about game used vintage equipment & autographs. I personally love the old photos that Dan collect, heck you know they are real. Now for the autographs and equipment that's another story.<br /><br />Just someone responding that you can vent on,<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I know Leon, but I just went through the last two weeks worth of threads on this board, and not a single complainer in this thread other than Bruce has started a thread. As for your E98 question I didn't have an answer, but have wondered about that issue for a long time. There is probably a lot more knowledge out there about it...probably even lurking on this board, but you know nobody wants to give up their secrets. Hell Jerry thinks the W600 checklist belongs to him.

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Here's my take. I think overall this board is very good and Leon does an excellent job of moderating. I do find it maddening sometimes, to see a really interesting thread digress to such an extent that the last thirty or so posts deal with the latest happenings in the entertainment or political world, or perhaps the latest Seinfeld rerun. My biggest pet peeve, though, is the policy to severely limit discussions of interesting vintage memorabilia topics. Don't get me wrong, vintage baseball cards are great. However, not only does it seem that it is becoming harder and harder to find new things to discuss, vintage baseball cards are only one (albeit the most important in terms of dollars spent) component of overall vintage baseball collecting. Perhaps the ultimate irony is that if one were to count all the off-topic posts, they would probably substantially outnumber all the on-topic vintage memorabilia posts. Now for those lovers of these off-topic posts, they will respond that we are simply having some fun and building some comraderie, and that if one doesn't like to read them, simply scroll past them. Fair enough, and I have no problem doing just that. However, why can't that same rationale apply to vintage memorabilia threads/posts? There seems to be something wrong with the business model of a board that seems to take great pride in being the most-read and most-influential baseball board yet is more tolerant of a discussion of a You Tube rock 'n' roll video than a Players League scorecard. It is my view that whatever the number of hits this board averages, that number would rise substantially if we made the topics this board covers more expansive. And what's the real downside? It will not take away any vintage baseball card threads. All it might do is force some people to spend a few seconds more scanning thread topics to know what to skip, a practice I might add many of us already have had quite a bit of practice in when avoiding off-topic posts/threads.

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Posted By: <b>Peck</b><p>I would like to see the threads topic identified in the first words of the message title when it directly relates to a card, set, or item, etc. Such as . . Old Judge - . . T206 question - . . American Caramel cards - . . 19th Century tobacco . . Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back . . etc. A quick identification of the subject would allow a quicker selection of topic's of interest and make it easier to find topics that are months old.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />I used to be a major contributor and started many threads. It has just gotten to the point where I have become more of a lurker and contributed in a few threads. I could start thread about the hockey playoff, would that make me in good stand? No.<br /><br />I am off to start a thread, Yes, it will be vintage related.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Corey, I would love to see the board take that turn, but when I first got here in 2004 the board was in an uproar over people discussing game used equipment and half the board mutinied and took their toys home. It seems that most of the collectors who participate on N54 don't collect anything but cards and they also don't want to read about anything but cards so it has been somewhat forbidden to discuss memorbilia here for a couple of years now. There is a forum for that on the game used universe board, but it gets so little traffic that it's pretty much just me and 4 or 5 other guys.

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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>I took a few weeks off from posting after the last series of my posts when I got in the middle of an O/T that went way off track (NO MORE REPLIES FOR ME). <br /><br />Darn near posted about the 1969 Dodge Charger R/T GENERAL LEE car that is fection $10,000,000 on Ebay right now (250108256198).<br /><br />This is the one and only place that I can go, and can count on, that is all about Vintage. I think that the only O/T should come with the occassional, PLEASE MORE, O/T Vintage Football question (did I mention, PLEASE MORE!!!). <br /><br />Leon, I have said it countless times, you do an excellent job and one that I might add comes with NO paycheck for as much as you work this thing. We give BZ's in the Navy (Bravo Zulu), so there!!! You just got one! BZ!!!!!!<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>I love Dan's pics posts, Davidcycleback's expert knowledge too.<br /><br />And I think some of the substantial sports related OT's in the last 12 months are not run-of-the-mill cooler discussions of mere recent sports activities.<br /><br />There was Barbaro - I don't know anything (or really want to) about horses, but clearly this was a once every 25-50 year horse, and perhaps worthy of a thread.<br /><br />There's Bonds, a man who's play and statistics are likely to change every discussion about baseball to come for ever and a day. <br /><br />And last nights Warriors did something no other basketball team has done, and changed an image of a constant loser to fairy tale in 6 games. Trancendant in a way that resonates through all sports. <br /><br /><br />Maybe OT's could simply get a day a week - say Wednesdays - for a romp?<br /><br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>To Lee- you did mention another board, I assumed it was the one you and Jay started (did you two start it?)<br /><br />To Corey- I don't think this board has ever discouraged threads on vintage memorabilia, particularly things that are card related, such as postcards, cabinets, even various forms of photography. Perhaps a discussion of catcher's masks is a little more afield, but if it elicits intelligent responses it will end up being useful.<br /><br />What might be more frustrating is if you started a thread on color sheet music of the 1860's, you would get little to no response. But that is not the fault of the board or the moderator, just a reflection of the state of the hobby.<br /><br />And may I ask again, since I am the number one culprit, do people object to all the Seinfeld quips? If they do, I will stop discussing the show.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Barry- Love the Sinfeld quotes. I also don't mind the "airing of grievances" on here.<br /><br />My take is that if there isn't a plethora of on-topic posts, then there just isn't. I don't think the off-topic threads (and on-topic threads which degenerate into off-topic), dilute the on-topic content. I would rather have the choice of whether to read an off-topic thread or not, than be stuck having to read post #200 on T206 EPDG's, if that's all the on-topic material there is. <br /><br />Happy Festivus!

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Just be yourself...the best part of this forum is the mix of different personalities and knowledge of the participants. We may go O/T often, but personally I think maybe a reduction of only about 10% less is called for.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Many aspects of memorabilia -- e.g., artwork, advertising, publications, documents, scorecards/program -- are not card-related and are discouraged. Perhaps if discussion about that material was allowed/encouraged, more memorabilia collectors would frequent the board. Then the next time somebody posted a thread on chromolithographic 1860's sheet music, more people who have an interest in that sort of thing would read it and possibly participate in the discussion.<br /><br />In regard to your well-known tendency to discuss Seinfeld, while if I had my druthers posts on that and other OT topics would be few and far between, believe me when I tell you I lose no sleep over it. In fact, to the contrary, if it gives you and others a bit of fun and comraderie, hey -- isn't that part of what collecting is all about?! My reaction perhaps was just venting over the frustration of so few threads/discussions about interesting vintage memorabilia topics.<br /><br />I like cards a great deal. Half of my collecting life dealt solely with cards. Then I became exposed to memorabilia and became hooked. It didn't reduce my passion for cards, just gave me something else to enjoy. My guess is that many/most memorabilia collectors started out this same way. I hardly think we'd be doing a disservice or being disrespectful to vintage card collectors to broaden the scope of this board.

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Posted By: <b>greg</b><p>Fist let me apologize to Dan for mentioning the photo thing. Dan, I certainly didn't mean to imply that the issue of photographs was the main issue Leon was driving at. I'm really sorry I dragged you into this, it certainly wasn't my intention. I only used the photos as a reference, along with a pennant and uniform, to express how interesting these subjects are, amd have all the relavance in the world to pre-war cards and baseball in general (dare I say even more so?). We can all certainly learn a lot from a variety of topics. I know I have.<br /><br />Second, let me express how ridiculous I feel even responding to all of the replies I've seen as I have now also been sucked into the vortex of insecurities that is so prominant in this forum. Good Lord people, are pre-war artifacts that scarey or boring? Exactly how many times can one talk about a Red Back Cobb? <br /><br />Third, Two responded that they feel Cabinet Cards, e.g., are OK but other stuff is better left somewhere else....<br /><br />Do you think others may have a different opionion? Do you think someone out there would be opposed to seeing what other members in this forum have in their collection that could just as well be seen the National Hall of Fame? <br /><br />Anyway, enough of my wasting any of your time. I apologize to you all. In no way, shape, or form should a guest to a forum start imposing how things are to be done. That is not my intention.<br /><br />Dan, I'll see you on the dark side in the other forum where nobody bitches and moans and everybody seems to be friends. Keep those photos coming. Great stuff.<br /><br />Nuf 'Ced on this end. (Too bad he was never on a baseball card, can't talk about him here). No More from me.<br /><br />Greg<br /><br />Edited to say Corey and I were probably typing at the same time and I like the way he thinks. Good post.

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Posted By: <b>Scot</b><p>.

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Posted By: <b>Ken W.</b><p>As a fairly new participant to this board, I just wanna say that I have become hopelessly addicted to it! Whatever is going on here, Leon, apparently is working just fine for me. I wouldn't worry too much. Unpopular topics will simply slide down the page and be forgotten. Live and let live.<br /><br />Ken

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>When was the last time you posted something about memorabilia? I have told you a thousand times (well maybe not quite that many) to go for it. I do not consider 19th century memorabilia to be too far off topic and is certainly permitted per the forum rules...I would say if you start a memorabilia thread, every 3-4 days, given your participation on the board, it would not be too much, especially since it's barely OT anyway.......I am not sure how much more clear I can be. best regards

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Posted By: <b>Silver King</b><p>I first found this site about 4 months ago searching for info on an N172 card and a Cabinet photo. I've been hooked ever since and log in at least twice a day. I have learned a lot of things yet I probably only know 1% of what I need to know. I actually enjoy just about every thread and those that don't interest me are easy to skip. I am not really interested in current baseball topics because that is too ordinary and discussed on sports center, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate an o/t discussion like a triple play. Like someone said in a prior response, I like other old memorabilia too, some of the tobacco items from way back are very cool and loosely tied to the same industry as baseball and I would like to see what other collectors collect in addition to their baseball cards. Bottom line, I like most of the threads but I can understand why some are too o/t for others.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Corey- I'm with Leon 100% here, and whenever we speak and you suggest a topic you want to start, I always tell you to go for it.<br /><br />You asked if it would be a good idea to start a thread on your Peck & Snyders- for those who don't know Corey well he has five of them, including Jim Creighton- and I told you it would be a fabulous thread and draw tremendous responses. I'm still waiting....

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Yes, you have told me that. But here's the point. You will let me do it because of my participation on the board. What about the collector who now wants to frequent the board and discuss only memorabilia? Can he? My understanding is that he cannot. And because he cannot, not many memorabilia people frequent the board, the result being that the several threads I started on various memorabilia topics ended up generating little discussion. Then there's the aspect that, while of course I would like to start a thread about a memorabilia topic that would generate substantial interest and discussion, I would also like to read such threads started by others. Allowing me to post them but restricting others limits that possibility.<br /><br />As to a thread about the Peck and Synders, I would love to do it. However, as I've mentioned, part of my inhibition is my lack of equipment and technical prowess in posting transparencies (e.g., I have transparencies of the five Peck & Synders) of the item(s) that would be the subject of a thread (and which would substantially enhance interest in the thread). Any help you or anyone could give me on this issue would be appreciated.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>If you posted on memorabilia before and it didn't get a lot of responses then maybe it was like my current (thankfully) revived E98 thread? With all due respect *(and there is a lot of it) I think you under estimate the 1150 folks a day who visit this board (we are up about 10% from 3-6 mos ago) and think there are many on here who do collect it. I do understand your point though and it's valid. Not saying I am going to change my view but yours is certainly valid. Also, I know you and I have spoken about me helping with the transperancy issue and thought you took that ball back in your court. I understand that is an issue....I will still help if you want me to but also understand hesitation on sending stuff through the mail. I hate to do it myself. All in good spirit.......leon

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>You simply worry too much. I'm sure you've heard of freedom of speech. I'm probably as guilty as anybody for O/T posts, but I really don't worry about it too much. So far, Leon hasn't jumped on me, even though there were times when he probably should have.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>chris bland</b><p>I dont think it can be summed up any better than what Quan wrote. I dont go to espn.com to read about Old Judge cabinets, and I dont come here to read about Baron Davis. Just one man's opinion...

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I think the current policies are really quite good. But they could use a little more self-policing by the regulars. OT generally not allowed. Occasional exceptions for regular contributors. What could be more simple? <br /><br />Well, maybe the word "occasional" could use some fine-tuning in some cases. Being a regular contributor isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card for OT posts, and I do agree there have been a whole lot of them lately. Even regulars need to restrict OT's to very occasionally. <br /><br />This is where I think some self-regulation would help - don't make Leon jump in and be the bad guy because you think "occasionally" means "only a few times a week". It probably varies by person, but to me I figure it means maybe 2 times a year or something like that. Occasionally.<br /><br />And the further off-topic, the more rare the post. It's kind of absurd to think that ca 1915 photos or tobacco packs are the same kind of OT as a 2006 game-used-whatever just because neither are technically vintage cards. C'mon. <br /><br />And I really do think Leon should stick to his guns on the board being about vintage cards. I'm sure there are all kinds of topics that could be allowed to get more traffic. First vintage memorabilia, then game used, maybe autographs, and why not allow baseball cards up to about 1970 (which many consider "vintage")? I think the rigor in keeping it to vintage cards is what keeps the board lively and focused. <br /><br />If there really is that much demand for other topics, it seems that there would be enough demand to devote a separate site to it and keep it active. Look what Tom Boblitt (hi tom) did - he created our "sister site" which is devoted to vintage non-sports cards, and it is a very active, fun and useful site. I don't know a lot about memorabilia or autographs (although I have to say memorabilia in general just fascinates me), but I guess I don't understand why they can't start a similar board. <br /><br />lolol. So imagine a Net54 Vintage Baseball Card board, a Net54 Vintage Non-Sports, a Net54 Vintage Baseball Memorabilia board, a Net54 1945-1970 Baseball Card Board - heck, maybe even a Net54 Vintage Sports Cards: non-Baseball. All of our little cities could provide links to each other and grow up to be a state or something. <br /><br />Seriously though - I think the Vintage Non-sports board is the model to follow to create a place for those that have interests that parallel those this board, but are nonetheless OT here. <br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Why don't we just divide this board into two. A board which discusses Prewar Vintage Cards and an O/T board where I can discuss Baron Davis. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>What about a board for those who both collect vintage cards and also waste too much time watching Seinfeld reruns (and committing them to memory)?

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Barry,<br /> Sign me up.... It would be a board about "Nothing"..... <br /><br /> Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />In the O/T board we could discuss everything tangential to the main board. So we can discuss both Seinfield and Baron Davis. It's a simple solution Leon, and hopefully won't deprive you of needed rest... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>There probably isn't a whole much more stuff to say that hasn't been said before.

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Posted By: <b>MIke</b><p>What is the site for memorablia?

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Or simpler yet, we all put 0/T in the message title for O/T posts. And if we don't do it, then Leon in his discretion can insert O/T.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think one thing does need to be stated that might not have been. Just because you put O/T in the message title of the thread does not give you carte blanche to do them. IF anyone is doing more than about 1 a month it's really too much....even if you are me <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.....can there be an exception? Sure....but remember if you are doing more than about 1 a month then it's probably too much....Maybe this will take a little of the gray area out of the, on purpose, not strict rule.......regards<br /><br /><br /><br />edited to change my view in frequency of OT's from a week to a month...

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Mike, here's the url for the memorabilia site:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5</a>

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>I agree with Corey. I would like to see more memorabilia related threads.<br /><br />Alan

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Back in the day, quite a few days ago, I occasioned upon a beer bar which was pleasant, had a real pot belly stove for heat, free (very long) shuffleboard, free snacks and sandwiches (I said it was in the past). I guess that I went back there several times. Nobody ever asked the proprietor "Why don't you offer wine" because they knew the answer "this is a beer bar".<br /><br />Nobody asked for whiskey, grape juice, watermellon, knishes, sauerbraten, kool-aid, etc. Do you know why?

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />You say there are 1150 viewers a day if even 2% had O/T threads a day that's half the first page. I think if we could go a week without O/T threads it would settle the numbers down, than it wouldn't look like they are par for the course.<br /><br />Asd stated before, I think the restraint needs to be on the posters.<br /><br />I also believe memorbilia should be on here. I would prefer that autographs and "game used" equipments that requires provinance not be on the board. Threads like the notebooks are great.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Barry, the other board was started by Scott Elkins. Lee and I are just moderators on the site. So far, the only moderating I've had to do is the deletion of a few of Scott's posts, lol. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You are absolutely correct. There really are 1150 or more folks on the board everyday...at least lurking. I should have said anymore than 1 OT a month is TOO MUCH...and it should really be less....I was being too lenient. As for the memorabilia I can live with a little bit of that..but only the pre war stuff as it's on some of our cards too. I could give a rats patoot about the newer game used stuff.....That will never be allowed on the board unless it's an extraordinary circumstance...best regards

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Posted By: <b>martin dalziel</b><p><br />I've not read all the posts in this thread, so if I'm repeating somethings thats already been said then apologies up front.<br /><br />I emailed Leon last night about this topic. I'm not saying I was the genesis of the thread but certainly he and I share the same view. <br /><br />My perspective - basically Quan hit the nail on the head. This is not some sports bulletin board. If people want to share views on Schillings bloody sock, Cepeda's drug problems, the NBA playoff's, Yogi Berra cards, tomorrow nights fight, politics, etc. there are plenty of places to go do that. This isn't it.<br /><br />I come here to learn about pre-war (WWII) cards and their related history, and that includes vintage photos, cabinet cards, etc. I've got other avenues to go chat about current sports events and post-war cards and their histories and thats where I go.<br /><br />Regarding the suggestion to email the posters of threads that aren't what this board is about, I tried that and while I got a respectful response it did nothing.<br /><br />Just one man's opinion.

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Posted By: <b>Rick</b><p>I'm going to miss the Al Rosen bashing threads.<br /><br />Rick

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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I think you are doing a great job keeping proper balance on this site.<br /><br />Honestly - I don't mind the OT threads nearly as much as the bickering threads.<br /><br />And the OT threads usually come with a warning in the title "OT"... so they are easy to ignore.

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Posted By: <b>greg</b><p>Just for clarification for what I was saying in the first place, as once again, it has been twisted and misinterpreted...<br /><br />This is a pre-war site, so "Memorabilia" would be pre-war....not Schilling's bloody sock or a batting helmet from 2004. "Game Used" isn't a bat from 2005, it's a bat from 1915.<br /><br />And Lee...first you say that memorabilia is better served on another site: "This board has morph from it's focus. What you are looking for can be better achieved on the other board you mwntioned. Try there."<br />Then you say you would like to see it on here in a later post. Huh?<br /><br />I realize I'm not one of the popular girls sitting at the popular table in the school cafeteria like the rest of the "regulars" on here, so what I'm saying will be swept under the rug, but what I do think I am is one of the guy's Corey was referencing when he stated that you would get more imput about baseball during the pre-war period if other interests weren't intentionally stiffled. That's why I suggested a seperate link for Baseball History and "Memorabilia" (that's a crappy word - I prefer artifacts)<br /><br />For whatever it's worth...<br /><br />Greg<br />

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Greg,<br /><br />I respectfully disagree, and not because of any measure of popularity of any poster. This is not a "pre-war site", as you put it. It's not even a pre-war baseball site. It's a Pre-WWII baseball cards site, as indicated in boldface text in the very first line at the top of the main page.<br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>and made it O N L Y specifically about the cards, were diligent in enforcing it, restricted any and all banter and occasional chatter, and deleted any posts that didn't follow that exact criteria........ IMHO you would eventually have a VERY limited group posting mostly for themselves (1100 hits a day facilitates the growth of the participating pool which in turn allows for the presentation of more facts which then allows for more knowledge...... well you know the drill) and the board would eventually fade into obscurity. In general it appears to me that the evidence is that the forum is growing (according to Leon), which in turn suggests that these things aren't as abhorrent to most of the people as they are to the most vocal posters. Time after time I have heard people say they just move on to another thread if they don't like what is being said or how it is presented.<br />I know I have been guilty of a few OT posts and responses. It was inadvertent and I offer that I just didn't know better which is no excuse; just an explanation. I have never posted or even gone into a chat room - forum before. There was no ill will behind it and after reading some of the posts and responses directed to me I'm going to try and not do so.<br />Defining ALL the parameters for discussion is difficult and I would think that the occasional reminder from the moderator to try and keep more posts on the topic of ****pre-WW2 baseball cards**** is sufficient. Just look at the last 20+ new threads. Without having read them all - they appear to be on the money (so to speak).....<br /><br />(Edited because it just didn't read right-maybe it still doesn't-ugh)<br />(Edited because Barry said spelling counts)

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Spelling only counts a little; knowledge trumps it! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Personally, I've felt in looking back through the historical forum posts (I have about 60 pages to go) that the board has always been about vintage pre war cards (or pre Topps to be a little more accurate) for the most part but also the players that are on those cards and the ephemera of the game itself. I like to see the related memorabilia on here and like some of the biographical stuff as well. Some of the tobacciana posts I find relevant as well, even if not 100% on topic.<br /><br />I will say the tone of the posts (or responses to posts that may inadvertenly or overtly render an insult)in the past was more civil than it has been here over the last 2 months. That really jumps out at me as I travel back in time on Net 54. And there has been a huge turnover in board members over 6 years.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Break the rules and it's no posts for you--one week! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Seriously, a little self-policing is all that's needed here. I think Leon's idea of one a month at most is great.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>It's also the degree of O/T that should be considered. Making an observation about Cap Anson's life away from baseball is different than asking if one thinks Barry Bonds takes steroids. At least one relates to the 19th century game, while the other is irrelevant to this board.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Two Ideas I really like are one self-policing so that we post O/T only once a month. And if poster doesn't do it then Leon should. Secondly, I like the idea of putting O/T in the message title.'s <br /><br />The whole thing is once there are too many O/T's in the message title, people will think that it's alright for everybody to make more O/T posts.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>you and I on same page. I too am reading the posts from page 311 to the present and had some thoughts but when I solicited others to comment on the past five years there was little interest. So be it. We are what we are now and not what we used to be. Recently Tony Soprano remarked that "remember when is the lowest form of conversation".... While I disagree (especially in a forum) YOU tell him that! God while I love being bad; in this thread you can go OT about going OT...... Priceless.

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Posted By: <b>ramramram</b><p>I didn't make through the whole thread so my apologies if this has been mentioned -<br /><br />What about having a separate zone, like the BST, that people can post off topic subjects. Leon can also sweep any threads he considers off topic into this zone. That way you aren't locking any threads, just controling them. If people want to keep up a friendly banter, they can still do that. It is somewhat like the chat room but has the advantage of non-time sensitive responses.<br /><br />Rob M.

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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Was I guilty of some picture taboo or was it one of the other Dan's? <br /><br />Peter, of course you think that is a suitable solution. Get the clue man, you are one of the main reasons this O/T thing came up!!!!

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Posted By: <b>greg</b><p>Rob,<br /><br />I suggested that earlier in the thread. The best bet for talking memorabilia will be to go to:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/</a><br /><br />Hope to see you there.<br /><br />Greg<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>This really shouldn't be the "best" place to talk memorabilia. I hope it's the best place to talk cards though....A little memorabilia, per the rules, is very cool and I and almost everyone else will enjoy it. I don't really care to start additional places on this forum for talking about other stuff....Nothing personal guys...I think Joann and Gilbert nailed it....as well as many, many others...Thanks to all for keeping this discussion civil. I truly hope the board polices itself....best regards

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Posted By: <b>greg</b><p>Thanks for letting me air an opinion, Leon.<br /><br />Memorabilia discussions are always civil and friendly. I can't ever remember an occasion when they aren't.<br /><br />I just don't understand why people aren't interested in the uniform some player is wearing on a card (if in fact it's not an artist's interpretation), or a bat that's on his shoulder, but, hey, who am I to question.<br /><br />I'll keep reading the posts. You'll probably never hear much from me again as there's not a heck of a lot to talk about overpriced and overvalued Red Sox cards (with the exception of a few postcards that I know, but those really aren't true cards, are they....)<br /><br />All the best, and thanks again for hearing me out.<br /><br />Greg<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You seem like a good guy. I always appreciate your posts....You said:<br /><br />"I just don't understand why people aren't interested in the uniform some player is wearing on a card (if in fact it's not an artist's interpretation), or a bat that's on his shoulder, but, hey, who am I to question."<br /><br /><br />The answer is I/we do like this kind of stuff and are interested. This just isn't "the" place to talk about it (for the most part). Kind of like going to a fried chicken place for a hamburger. I love both but I don't go to KFC and ask for a cheeseburger. That's all....All collecting is fun and memorabilia can be talked about on here in small doses....and the way O/T stuff in much smaller doses.....take care now...

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Thanks Leon,<br /><br />You seem like a good guy too. <br /><br />You really should lay off the KFC and the hamburgers though...<br /><br />Trust me, that stuff aint good for you. &lt;G&gt;<br /><br />And I never got to post a pic of my new Royal Rooters WS pin, bummer.<br /><br />Nuf Ced. Have a great day.<br /><br />greg

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />How about this idea, why don't we have about 3 threads on each page and designate them as the O/T threads. If there are fewer than 3 we will feel free to add an O/T. On the other hand if there are more than 3 we'll hold back.<br /><br />And of course, we need a 4th O/T for Barry's Seinfeld jokes. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter<br />

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />I'm not sure I'm exactly following you in this and some of the other threads about OT.<br /><br />First, there is a difference between an on topic thread that wanders offcourse and a thread that is started purely for the purpose of discussing something off topic. And some of them are way off topic. Boxing? <br /><br />Leon's rules and guidelines have worked well here for a very long time. There are fairly regular "near topic" posts about autographs, post-WWII cards, memorabilia, photos, etc. Less occasionally there are completely OT posts, but they tend to be about major sporting events (usually a Super Bowl thread, a Kentucky Derby thread), etc and are almost always started by people that have been around here since before this was even the board. And once in a blue moon you get things completely non-sports related.<br /><br />I guess I'm not quite sure why you are pushing this. In some ways it seems like you are falling just short of demanding some right to post whatever is on your mind at any given time. Or at least being very persistent.<br /><br />These rules and guidelines have been in place and effective for a long time, and to be honest I don't think they will or should change just because a few newer people have appeared on the scene and would like to have things be different. Group assimilation never works that way. <br /><br />You are a good poster here generally and I enjoy your presence in this forum. But I kind of wish you wouldn't try to take Barry's occasional Seinfeld references and make that an analogy as to why you should be able to post about boxing or basketball or other completely OT items that interest you. Barry has been in this hobby for decades, has contributed here regularly, and the occasional Seinfeld references tend to be one-liners that do not derail a topic. That's different. It just is.<br /><br />Respectfully, because I do think you are a good addition to this board,<br /><br />Joann<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>And to take it a step further, while we've had a few laughs identifying lines or scenes from Seinfeld, I think I'm getting tired of being the Seinfeld guy. Maybe somebody else would like to wear that crown for awhile.

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Posted By: <b>Steve f</b><p>Okay, but only if I can post youtubees.<br /><br /><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/W5OkhYDrZCA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/W5OkhYDrZCA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Joanne,<br /><br />Why didn't you tell me this thread was only a facade. That Leon never really intended to make any changes. That would have saved all of us a lot of trouble.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Peter, the thread as posted by Leon is not a facade - you've merely misread it.<br />Leon is looking for suggestions on how to stop the off topics, and not ideas on how to create a balanced forum allowing a certain number. It may sound that way as Leon and many acknowledge OT's will happen, truth is they are not regarded favourably and hopefully supply only the odd zinger or comic relief - and not a regular discussion point.<br /><br />I really like your breezy posting style and attempts to diffuse cantankerous clashing opinion, but changing the focus of this board is unwarranted. Truth is, if the forum became too chatty the glue that is the cardboard knowledge would quickly disappear and the boardwould become a CU copy. It's the uniqueness of the participants and their hobby knowledge that makes the site what it is.<br /><br />You don't really want to change it, do you?<br /><br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Daniel,<br /><br />I know where your coming from. And all I did was make suggestions, I'm not demanding that Leon do anything. It just seems to me that when people see a lot of O/T posts their natural inclination is to post one of their own. We can reverse that by making O/T posts clearer and stating that it is the policy of this board to avoid O/T posts once we see a certain number on the front page.<br /><br />It is a practical suggestion and I thought that's what Leon wanted.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>A simple solution would be to create a "Net54 Vintage Baseball MEMORABILIA Forum". Same exact format as this one, but for memorabilia. I know there's a similar one mentioned earlier, but it's not the same look as this one (same logon & password) with the B/S/T area, links, etc,...<br /><br />Alan

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I know nothing about how to set these types of forums up, but I would be interested in doing a Net54 memorabilia forum if someone showed me how. At the very least I could moderate it if someone set it up.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />You don't know what your getting yourself into. Notice how Leon started looking like George after moderating this board for a while. Well, after a while you may resemble Kramer. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>I think we can reverse this trend by simply not making OT posts that have nothing to do with baseball, and more directly, 19th century baseball. An occasional truly OT post is also fine for regular contributors IMO.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>so will you please stop bidding!!!

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>But have people noticed. It is the O/T posts that sometimes get the most attention. Is that good or bad.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />At what point do you realize what this board is here for? <br /><br />VINTAGE BASEBALL CARDS<br /><br />It is pretty straight forward, if you want to discuss other subjects find another forum. It has actually been quite nice lately with what I can find as only 3 O/T threads since this was pointed out and was started by you. <br /><br />Can you give it break and go with the main subject?<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> Yes, I've noticed the threads have returned to dead ball era cards almost exclusively. Not even Goudeys or Delongs or Diamond Stars or Batter Ups. Heaven forbid someone brings up Jackie Robinson cards. Or the great '52 Topps. E93 beaters: that's the ticket. Bloody awful dull.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Wondering why if you find pre-war material so dull what the reason is your even here? I'm sure the CU boards you could have a field day talking about Jackie Robinson, Duke Snider, and even Felipe Alou.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>but then thought better of it.<br /><br />This is from an ebay listing. And you thought I had "Rules". <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br /><br />Warning! Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!<br /><br /> <br /><br />Items DO NOT come from a smoke free, petless, hermetically sealed home. With respect to eBayers who are living the American Dream with a chicken in every pot, 2 cars in the driveway, 2.5 children in a spacious home, and so on—I am not living that life. The cramped apartment (with no driveway or covered parking in Minnesota) smells like a bar, and has a very fuzzy black and white cat who roams freely (and who once threw up in my shoe). This means items WILL smell of smoke and there will probably be cat hair floating around. In addition, old paper items are sometimes musty (Frankly, I'M allergic and am constantly sneezing). If any of the above is a problem for you, PLEASE do not bid. <br /><br /> <br /><br />In response to a recent e-mail from an eBayer who did not bid but felt the need to lambaste me for my warning section and chide me for making her lapse into a coma, I should change the above statement to "Please do not bid, and not bidding without comments is preferable."<br /><br /> <br /><br />In addition, if you think you may be overcome by a compulsion to mention unpleasant odors in feedback—or to ask for your money back—then it's a problem for you and you should refrain from bidding. And for those eBayers who have not heeded my warning to refrain from commenting on the smoky odor in feedback and warn other eBayers to read the disclaimer…sigh. Sigh. Sigh. <br /><br /> <br /><br />In response to numerous inquiries: No, I am NOT kidding about the above, though you are just as likely to get some of my hair tapped to the package as the cat's hair. You will recognize it because it is long, curly, and thick. Have I mentioned that my essay "Jewish Hair" is going to be published in a literary journal? (Update: The world of lit journals is so slow, I'll be experiencing female pattern balding before I finally see my words on the page. In fact, one piece that was accepted five years ago—yes, five years ago, just came out in print.)<br /><br /> <br /><br />In response to another inquiry: No, your item does not include dust bunnies, but I don't know how many ways to say that you're going to get some cat hair and/or my hair. I will, however, endeavor to ship as little hair as possible. I am considering shaving the cat and my head before my warning section grows to book length.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Sigh. In response to three recent incidents: A couple of ladies have nicely suggested that I put the smoking warning first because they get all excited but then can't bid. Another nice lady bought from me and then saw the warning. Listen peeps, I'll always, always, always refund your money if you are not satisfied—whatever the reason for your dissatisfaction—but I gotta say that I'm getting a little frustrated. I think I'll write an essay about eBay, which would definitely includes the lines, "If I ever found myself describing an item as 'shabby chic' or 'cottage chic' or, God help me 'chippy'—I'd make an appointment for deprogramming. I will also NOT inform you that something is 'collectible.' I think we're all smart enough to know what we collect and what we don't. And finally, I will not list items week after week and year after year that say I am selling my 'ex-husband's baseball collection.'"<br /><br /> <br /><br />I have resisted writing this next paragraph for a long time, and I'm sighing heavily now as I type: For the foreigners: I love you, I have lived among you in various countries over my lifetime and no, I will not ship out of the U.S. at the moment because it is a time consuming hassle and eBay is not my "real" job—if it were, I'd be living in a tent and stealing food out of my cat's mouth. Sending me argumentative e-mail or telling me that, "Other sellers ship outside the U.S." is not going to change my mind. I'm sorry. Have your American pals bid for you and I'll be happy to send it to them. <br /><br /> <br /><br />While we're on the subject of shipping, my shipping costs are extremely reasonable and always listed. I use First Class mail when it's 12 oz. or under, flat rate envelopes for over 12 oz., and flat rate boxes for my heavy lots—and I almost ALWAYS COMBINE SHIPPING for items ending within a week of each other. Please refrain from sending me e-mails that ask me to ship things by pony express, (or whatever new/better/different way that you want me to send items) or e-mails that ask, "Why is shipping so much more [$8.10] on this lot, when it's only $4.05 on the other???" Not only do I resent the extra question marks, which imply I'm trying to rip people off, (or am stupid) but if said bidder had read the description, said bidder would not have had to send me this charming little question. Ok, ok, the description is long and one might be forgiven for missing pertinent information, but I'm holding my ground on what the extra question marks imply. The polite way to question shipping charges that seem so extreme that you're sure the seller has his/her head in a dark place is to say, "I'm wondering if the shipping charge of $10.00 for the 2 postcards you have listed is correct." Sadly, it probably is right and the seller is getting around eBay fees by charging an absurd amount for shipping. Personally, I just suck it up and pay eBay's fees rather than stick it to the unwitting, unconscious, or untried bidder.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Regarding tactics employed by eBayers that do not work on me: Repeatedly asking me to list something RIGHT NOW that I've said I don't have RIGHT NOW, doesn't work. DEMANDING that I do X, Y, or Z also does not work. While I am extremely accommodating and almost always say, "Yes" to requests, demands are just…strange. (And while I don't want to turn away business, I'm not the only seller on eBay.) Last time I looked, I was not an indentured servant. <br /><br /> <br /><br />Packing: I pack items to withstand a nuclear holocaust. I often use odd packing material. I've been known to use dresses (always cute ones), batik wall hangings, holiday hand towels (always in excellent condition). Don't worry, I WILL NOT use a disposable diaper (used or unused) which was how somebody sent me an item once—at least it was unused and had cartoon characters on it for that added bit of class.<br /><br /> <br /><br />P.S. Thanks for all the "fan mail" about my warning (and also the "reward/mercy" bids—a few people have told me that they bid on my item just because they liked my warning essay). Between eBay and my deadly dull day job (tech writing) I'm not getting any of my own writing done and must use my creative writing skills in my listings. I did finally get the blog going a few months ago with links to stuff of mine that's been published so if you're interested:<br /><br /> <br /><br />12/31 update: Had to remove the link to my blog from my listings. Someone actually turned me in and I had a listing canceled. Man, what a spoilsport.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Cat update: Eddie-Small-Devil Kitty caught wind of my threat to shave him and has taken to glaring at me with a malevolent eye. Not only that, he's taken to crouching by my head when I'm sleeping and yowling in my ear.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Cat update 2: Worse than the evil eye: one night last month, I awoke to find Eddie staring at me. In his mouth, a dangling live mouse—which he then dropped in the bed with me as a little token of his love.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Cat update 3: I've gotten a ton of e-mail asking what happened after Eddie deposited the mouse next to me, so here's the rest of the story. When I saw the furry little rodent inches from my face, I sighed, sat up, and sighed some more. While trying to figure out what to do, dear Eddie picked up the mouse, jumped off the bed, and ran out of the room. When I got to the living room, he was batting it around, looking slightly bored. The mouse took refuge in my backpack, which fired Eddie up again. Eddie nosed around but the mouse was hiding under the pile 'o stuff I carry around with me. I waited for the mouse to come out, picked it up with a towel, and took it outside. Poor little guy wasn't in the best shape and may have gone to the happy hunting grounds in the sky where the mice are cat-sized and the cats are mouse-sized. <br /><br /> <br /><br />Cat update 4: I went to Albuquerque to buy a loft in the old 1938 Albuquerque High School building and had to leave poor little Ed alone in the apartment for two days—for the first time in the ten years of his life. He is now completely traumatized and follows me everywhere. My next worry is him yowling all the way to Alb. in the car. My worry after that is him falling off the 2nd floor of my new loft (no wall, just a railing).<br />

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Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> Hi Dave, I like the way the board is. I would miss the discussions about the pennant race, Bond's not really breaking the record, the hand painted cards of Monty Sheldon, and so many other mostly baseball related things we've discussed. If the focus becomes reduced to pre-war, I would ask what war? To me, a Yogi Berra '50 Bowman is not only beautiful, but vintage. People need to look up the word vintage in the dictionary. The '50 Drakes are great cards, but we can't talk about them here. If the board is reduced to pre 1945, I will be left to wonder, like Robert Frost, "what to make of a diminished thing."

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>In case you missed the header about what this board is about:<br /><br />Hello to all visitors! This is a moderated forum for the discussion of primarily Pre-WWII baseball cards and related topics. If you are posting for the first time, please read our list of Forum Rules on our "Rules" page before proceeding. The forum will be moderated mainly to keep its focus. You can directly contact the moderator here if you have any questions or comments. Enjoy!<br /><br />I think it tells all, why can't people confirm and want to change it?<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>This board has not been reduced to Pre-WWII it has always been this way. It's the way our founding fathers had it and it's the focus of this board currently. There are many other places to talk about other stuff. With that being said I don't think we've ever said anything much about an occasional 1950's card or two (at least when there's not an abundance of off topics going at the same time).... It's off topic and ok<br />regards

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Maybe there's enough interest for a network54 post-war thru 1960 or 1970 or whatever board <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Alan..your right..maybe there is enough interest...there is probably enough interest for 80's junk too...but certainly Leon and Brian shouldn't be responsible for creating all this...and catering to that crowd. the memorabilia forum was great..but it was a related subject...anything else..just isnt..IMO.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>I saw that auction. It was it believe an auction for everything he owned and as he listed every item it came up on one of my searches. Pisch in my pants funny and I was surprised it didn't end up on youtube or whatever-maybe Jay leno.....

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Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>How about 20 lashes with a wet noodle for going off topic. Or maybe the off topicee should walk a cardboard plank off a cardboard pirate ship....Suggestions<br /><br />Ken