Very Scary Auction - tainted T206 Cobby?

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>I'll let the board comment before I post our ( Hi Mr. D ) conclusions.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-TY-COBB-RED-PORTRAIT-SWEET-CAPORAL-NRMT-PSA_W0QQitemZ130106428981QQihZ003QQcategoryZ86840Q %20QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new">http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-TY-COBB-RED-PORTRAIT-SWEET-CAPORAL-NRMT-PSA_W0QQitemZ130106428981QQihZ003QQcategoryZ86840Q %20QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br /><br />In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.<br /><br />edited title to be more specific

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>that's pretty sharp...looks 2 me like ty got a shave and a haircut...2 bits! <br /><br />pete in mn

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I must be missing something. Looks like a nice card. Wazup Joe?

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Posted By: <b>Dave Snyder</b><p>As an owner of a legit T206 red Cobb, it bums me out to see this. That card is freakin' trimmed-top to bottom definitely.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Dave...I'd be so mad I'd sell me yours If I were you.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>This looks like the same card that was in Hunt's March auction (lot #680) it was graded "A" by SGC for evidence of color added. Trimming was not mentioned in the Hunt's description.

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Posted By: <b>Dave Snyder</b><p>Nice try! Actually, I'm resubmitting to try to get a grade bump so if it comes back in the PSA 5ish range I'll let you know!

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Dave...if it came back in the PSA 5 range, I'd have to trade you my wife.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Thought this thread would generate more intersest, but it's not about an auction house, shady dealer or idnner in New York. Just about a questionable $17,000 card.<br /><br />This seller knows about PSA and knows the value of a PSA 8. Red flag, Right? My first thought on this card was trimmed too. Something else didn't look right. Uniform wrinkles and top buttom too grainy and it's not cause of a blurred scan. <br />Top image is the card in question. Now, I say again, is this scary or not?<br /><br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1178222822.JPG"> <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>The two items that would prevent me from bidding are that he 1) knows how much a PSA would go for, yet sells it raw. 2) He recently received a neutral FB for selling a trimmed card. Just my opinion though....<br><br>Change your socks, drink water, and drive on.

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Posted By: <b>Chris Mc</b><p>IMO the card is clearly trimmed on the bottom. The top may or may not be.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>If the seller thinks it would grade PSA 8 it would be in a PSA holder. That it's raw says he doesn't believe it would grade PSA 8. End of story.<br /><br />Whenever a seller is willing to sell a "$17,000" card for $800 as he's unwilling to pay the the $10 grading fee, you don't have to be a nuclear physicist to deduce the the seller doesn't believe the card's worth $17,000.

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Joe -- are you saying that based on the typeface that the card is a forgery?

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Joe -- are you saying that based on the typeface that the card is a forgery? <br /><br /><br />If the gloves don't fit, you must aquit.<br /><br />Typeface must line up. The D and the E do not lie up correctly with his bottom button. You tell me what you make of it.<br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>but I like the description too.....<br /><br />"WITH THE RARE SWEET CAPORAL BACK."<br /><br /><br />yeah, those are much rarer than.....well, nothing...<br /><br /><br />edited typo

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Joe: indeed, that is very scary.<br /><br />Perhaps the razor sharp edges, and shortness top to bottom, are examples of the intentional defects in recent forgeries that Kevin Saucier warned us about. If potential bidders are worried that the card is trimmed, then perhaps they are distracted from the fact that it isn't real in the first place. After all, why would anyone trim a fake card? We're used to seeing fakes beaten up to worsen their condition, not altered to improve condition.<br /><br />And the forger wins big in this case: they will produce and sell as many trimmed fakes for $400+ as the market will bear.<br /><br />edited to say: actually, I think Kevin warned us about alterations that mask other defects (like a scuff over a filled-in pin hole or where a mark used to be), but that Cobb auction fits the pattern.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Wow...The auction went Poof!!! Anyone here have anything to do with it? Congrads if you did.<br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Unfortunately I get that feeling someone made an offer off the table and the seller took it....poor buyer if thats the case.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Doubt it Dave.<br /><br />Notice says it was removed by ebay.<br /><br />Had seller sold off ebay it would have just been an ended auction because of "error in listing" or "item no longer available"

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>&lt;"If potential bidders are worried that the card is trimmed, then perhaps they are distracted from the fact that it isn't real in the first place."&gt;<br /><br />You are very wise.<br /><br />Some of my examples were just to show that alterations can hide in plain sight.<br /><br />This will/may become huge a problem if or when there is a dishonest person with near perfect advanced alteration skills.<br /><br /><br />Kevin Saucier

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Posted By: <b>Martin Neal</b><p>It's possible that the seller removed the card to have it graded. Although I think the card is trimmed, it should still be a valuable card in an Authentic holder and one I wouldn't mind having in my collection. I don't think that having the typeface line up is an indication that the card is a forgery. I have several in my collection that are misaligned as to typeface.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Let's state this again. THE SELLER DID NOT END THIS AUCTION...EBAY DID.<br />The seller had no intention of getting this card graded. I'm am sure one of two things happened.<br />1. Someone alerted e-bay of a high $ fake and e-bay pulled it.<br />2. He violated e-bay policy by not descibing it as a reprint.<br /><br />It was and always will be a reprint. All other theories are just that.<br /><br />The better these thieves get the more aware we need to be and alert buyers in anyway we can to keep these cards from flooding the market and tainting the hobby anymore than it is.<br /><br />REPRINT and a damn good one at that. PERIOD.<br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I think I know who might have gotten it ended. He probably doesn't want me to say though, but he got an auction ended early that I warned people of here a couple of weeks ago. He must have an insider at ebay.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>I think I know who might have gotten it ended. He probably doesn't want me to say though, but he got an auction ended early that I warned people of here a couple of weeks ago. He must have an insider at ebay.<br /><br /> <br />Well please alert him to this one too. This one is already up to $300.00. What a nice card.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-Ty-Cobb-Red-Portrait-Blue-Back-Peidmont_W0QQitemZ120115306989QQihZ002QQcategoryZ8 6840QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-Ty-Cobb-Red-Portrait-Blue-Back-Peidmont_W0QQitemZ120115306989QQihZ002QQcategoryZ8 6840QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>Al Davis</b><p>943jacks is at least smart enough to start the bidding above $200 so that, under the new ebay lack-of-disclosure policy for bidders, no one will be able to alert the bidders. i guess we'll be seeing more of this behavior in the future.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>Surprised there hasn't been more of an uproar about this disclosure thing. It's more the cards and items that exceed the 200.00 bid I'm concerned about as far as shill bidding. IMO.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>If the bidding gets above 25 cents on that card, there must be shill bidding involved ... Or seeing eye dogs can type in bids.<br /><br />I mean, isn't this Cobb a reprint of a reprint? It's not even a reprint of a picture of a real T206.

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Posted By: <b>DaveW</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />I really like the way you showed text alignment using an overlay, so I did it myself on the second ebay link you posted. The text is really off center.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1178424837.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Steve f</b><p>They know what they're doing. Start at $&gt;200 and that'll prevent the harrsasing IDs from jumping in. I love and hate ebay.