Brown Hindu Survey

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Ted,<br /> In your honor, we'll start a new thread on Brown Hindu's. As you know I'm working on a master set and was hoping the board could help me fill in the gaps. Here is the list of poses which should be available, along with the ones I own or have seen. Thanks for your help Brian<br />KNOWN Poses:<br />1.George Brown (Browne) (Chicago) <br />2.Mordecai Brown Cubs (HOF)<br />3.Al Burch (batting)<br />4.Mike Donlin (fielding)<br />5.Johnny Evers Cubs (blue sky) (HOF)<br />6.Harry Pattee (horizontal)<br />7.Barney Pelty (horizontal photo)<br />8.Mike Powers<br />9.Ed Reulbach (glove showing)<br />10.Whitey Alperman<br />11.Red Ames (hands at chest)<br />12.Red Ames (portrait)<br />13.Ginger Beaumont<br />14.George Bell (hands above head)<br />15.Bill Bergen (batting)<br />16.Joe Birmingham (horiz)<br />17.Frank Bowerman<br />18.Bill Bradley (portrait)<br />19.Kitty Bransfield<br />20.Roger Bresnahan Portrait (HOF)<br />21.Al Bridwell (portrait, no cap)<br />22.Mordecai Brown Portrait (HOF)<br />23.Frank Chance Red Portrait (HOF)<br />24.Fred Clarke Bat (HOF)<br />25.Fred Clarke Portrait (HOF)<br />26.J. J. (Nig) Clarke (Cleveland)<br />27.Ty Cobb Green Portrait (HOF)<br />28.Ty Cobb Bat on Shoulder (HOF)<br />29.Sam Crawford Throwing (HOF)<br />30.Bill Dahlen (Boston)<br />31.George Davis (Chicago) (HOF)<br />32.Harry Davis (Philadel., H. Davis on front)<br />33.Jim Delehanty (Delahanty, Washington)<br />34.Art Devlin<br />35.Wild Bill Donovan (portrait)<br />36.Mickey Doolin (Doolan)<br />37.Patsy Dougherty (portrait)<br />38.Larry Doyle (N.Y. Natl., throwing)<br />39.Kid Elberfeld New York, portrait<br />40.Johnny Evers Portrait (HOF)<br />41.Bob Ewing<br />42.Hobe Ferris<br />43.Elmer Flick (HOF)<br />44.Bob Ganley<br />45.George Gibson<br />46.Wilbur Goode (Good)<br />47.Clark Griffith Portrait (HOF)<br />48.Buck Herzog (New York)<br />49.Bill Hinchman (Cleveland)<br />50.Frank Isbell<br />51.Walter Johnson Portrait (R) (HOF)<br />52.Fielder Jones (Chicago, hands at hips)<br />53.Fielder Jones (Chicago, portrait)<br />54.Tom Jones (St. Louis)<br />55.Addie Joss Portrait (HOF)<br />56.Ed Killian (hands at chest)<br />57.Johnny Kling<br />58.Ed Konetchy (glove above head)<br />59.Nap Lajoie Portrait (HOF)<br />60.Nap Lajoie Throwing (HOF)<br />61.Joe Lake (New York)<br />62.Tommy Leach (portrait) "Yellow" bkgd.<br />63.Lefty Leifield (pitching)<br />64.Glenn Liebhardt<br />65.Vive Lindaman<br />66.Harry Lumley<br />67.Sherry Magee (portrait)<br />68.Rube Manning (batting)<br />69.Rube Marquard Hands at Side (R) (HOF)<br />70.Christy Mathewson Portrait (HOF)<br />71.Christy Mathewson White Cap (HOF)<br />72.John McGraw Portrait, No Cap (HOF)<br />73.Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn)<br />74.George McQuillan (ball in hand)<br />75.Fred Merkle (portrait)<br />76.Charley O'Leary (portrait)<br />77.Orval Overall (portrait)<br />78.Frank Owen<br />79.Fred Parent<br />80.Jim Pastorius<br />81.Jack Powell (horizontal)<br />82.Claude Ritchey<br />83.Admiral Schlei (catching)<br />84.Boss Schmidt (throwing)<br />85.Wildfire Schulte (front view)<br />86.Al Shaw (St. Louis)<br />87.Jimmy Sheckard (no glove showing)<br />88.Bob Spade<br />89.Tubby Spencer<br />90.Harry Steinfeldt (portrait)<br />91.George Stone<br />92.Billy Sullivan<br />93.Fred Tenney<br />94.Joe Tinker Hands on Knees (HOF)<br />95.Joe Tinker Portrait (HOF)<br />96.Rube Waddell Portrait (HOF)<br />97.Heinie Wagner (bat on left shoulder)<br />98.Bobby Wallace (HOF)<br />99.Ed Walsh (HOF)<br />100.Doc White (Chicago, portrait)<br />101.Kaiser Wilhelm (hands at chest)<br />102.Jimmy Williams<br />103.Vic Willis Portrait<br />104.Hooks Wiltse (portrait, no cap)<br />105.Cy Young Portrait (HOF)<br />106 Hans Lobert<br />107 John McGraw Finger in Air (HOF<br />108 Rube Oldring (fielding<br />109 Lee Tannehill (Chicago, L. Tannehill on front<br />Southern Leguers<br />1.Harry Bay SL<br />2.Bill Bernhard SL<br />3.Ted Breitenstein SL<br />4.Scoops Carey SL<br />5.Cad Coles SL<br />6.Bill Cranston SL<br />7.Roy Ellam SL<br />8.Ed Foster SL<br />9.Charlie Fritz SL<br />10.Ed Greminger SL<br />11.Tom Guiheen SL<br />12.J. Ross Helm SL<br />13.Gordon Hickman SL<br />14.Bock Hooker SL<br />15.Ernie Howard SL (Savannah)<br />16.A. O. (Dutch) Jordan SL (Atlanta)<br />17.J.F. Kiernan SL<br />18.Frank King SL<br />19.James Lafitte SL<br />20.Perry Lipe SL<br />21..George Manion SL<br />22.Pat McCauley SL<br />23.Carlton Molesworth SL<br />24.Dom Mullaney SL<br />25.William Otey SL<br />26.George Paige SL<br />27.Hub Perdue SL<br />28.Arch Persons SL<br />29.Ed Reagan SL<br />30.Dutch Revelle SL<br />31.Ike Rockenfeld SL<br />32.Ray Ryan SL<br />33.Charles Seitz SL<br />34.Shag Shaughnessy SL<br />35.Sid Smith SL (Atlanta)<br />36.Woodie Thornton SL<br />37.Juan Violat SL<br /><br /><br />POSSIBLE POSES: Looking for help on these..........anyone..<br />1.Ed Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)<br />2.Neal Ball (New York)<br />3.Johnny Bates<br />4.Chief Bender Portrait (HOF)<br />5.Howie Camnitz (arms folded)<br />6.Hal Chase Pink Portrait<br />7.Hal Chase White Cap<br />8.Jack Chesbro (HOF)<br />9.Ed Cicotte (Black Sox)<br />10.Wid Conroy (fielding)<br />11.Harry Covaleski (Coveleski)<br />12.Doc Crandall (portrait, no cap)<br />13.Lou Criger<br />14.Dode Criss<br />15.Mike Donlin (seated)<br />16.Jiggs Donohue (Donahue)<br />17.Red Dooin<br />18.Bull Durham<br />19.Billy Gilbert<br />20.Ed Hahn<br />21.Charlie Hemphill<br />22.Fred Jacklitsch<br />23.Hughie Jennings Portrait (HOF)<br />24.Tim Jordan (Brooklyn, portrait)<br />25.Ed Karger<br />26.Willie Keeler Portrait (HOF)<br />27.Willie Keeler With Bat (HOF)<br />28.Red Kleinow (New York, with bat)<br /> <br /><br />31.George Mullin (throwing) (horizontal)<br />32.Danny Murphy (throwing) (horizontal)<br />33.Simon Nicholls (hands on knees) plain cap<br />34.Harry Niles<br />35.Nap Rucker (portrait)<br />37.Germany Schaefer (Detroit)<br />38.Bill Shipke<br />39.Frank Smith (Chicago, F. Smith on front)<br />40.Jake Stahl (no glove shows)<br />41.George Stovall (portrait)<br /><br />43.Terry Turner<br />44.Rube Waddell Throwing (HOF)<br />45.Jake Weimer<br />46.Jimmy Williams<br />47.Cy Young Bare Hand (HOF)<br />Southern Leaguers:<br />48.Harry Lentz SL<br />49.Al Orth SL<br />50.James Westlake SL<br />51.Jimmy Hart<br />52.Bill Hart <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Brian-<br />I know that at least one of the New Orleans players (Breitenstein, Fritz, Reagan), if not all of them, have Hindu backs.

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Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>Brian,<br /><br />If this will help here are the recorded sales for each.<br /><br />Alperman <br />Ames (Hands At Chest) <br />Ames (Portrait) <br />Bergen (Batting) <br />Bernhard <br />Birmingham <br />Bransfield <br />Breitenstein <br />Bresnahan (Portrait) <br />Bridwell (Portrait, No Cap) <br />Burch (Batting) <br />Carey <br />Chance (Portrait, Red Background) <br />Clarke (Fred)(Holding Bat) <br />Clarke (Nig) <br />Coles <br />Davis (G.) <br />Davis (Phila. H. Davis On Front) <br />Devlin <br />Donovan (Portrait) <br />Ferris <br />Helm <br />Hickman <br />Howard (Savannah) <br />Isbell <br />Johnson (Portrait) <br />Jones (Tom, St. Louis) <br />Jordan (A.O., Atlanta) <br />Kiernan <br />Konetchy (Arm in air) <br />Lafitte <br />Lajoie (Portrait) <br />Lake (New York) <br />Leifield (Pitching) <br />Liebhardt <br />Lindaman <br />Manion <br />Manning (Batting) <br />Marquard (Hands At Thighs) <br />Mathewson (White Cap) <br />McCauley <br />Merkle (Portrait) <br />Otey <br />Pattee <br />Pelty (Horizontal Photo) <br />Perdue <br />Persons <br />Powell <br />Powers <br />Reagan <br />Reulbach (Glove Showing) <br />Ritchey <br />Ryan <br />Shaughnessy <br />Sheckard (No Glove Showing) <br />Smith (Sid, Atlanta) <br />Spade <br />Steinfeldt (Portrait) <br />Thornton <br />Tinker (Hands On Knees) <br />Wagner (Heinie)(Bat On Left Shoulder) <br />Wallace <br />White (Doc, Chicago, Portrait) <br />Willis (Portrait) <br />Wiltse (Portrait, No Cap) <br />Young (Cy)(Cleveland, Portrait)

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p>Thanks Bobby, <br /> But all of those are on my known list. Besides, I probably won most of those auctions. Be well Brian<br /><br />PS I belong to the site...

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Brian,<br /><br />I could swear that about 5-6 years ago SCP had a Waddell throwing Hindu in a catalog, I'm pretty sure because I've always liked Rube. I'll see if I can’t dig up the old catalog and get a scan, so for now it’s a maybe on that one.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p>Thanks John,<br /> I thought I'd might have seen that one too, but I can't verify it, so it's on the list. Be well Brian<br /><br />PS It sounds like you have as many old catalogs, auctions, and SCD's as I do.... How far do you go back???

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Auction catalog's from most all the major guys and few oddballs from about 1997 to present.<br /><br />Price guides all of them from the first Beckett to the latest SCD etc. I’ll dig the box out of the basement and do some flipping to see if I cant come up with a few on your list. It will be fun and depressing at the same time, I can teleport myself back to when I said VG-EX Plank T206 6.5k that guys nuts…. LOL.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Hi Brian,<br /><br />You probably know this but the August 1909 Hindu ads in the New Orleans Times-Picayune show the following subjects that you are looking for:<br /><br />Lobert<br />Nicholls (Hands on Knees)<br />Waddell (Throwing)<br /><br />Scot<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p>Hi Scot,<br /> Yes I have a copy of the ad,and that's what's driving me crazy... You would think they would be among the easiest to find, but that is not the case. What's your take on the difference in the Hindu ads from one week to the next???? One week it says 2 "distigued baseball player"(shows 2 Major Leaguers) are inserted in each pack, and then the following week it's 2 Southern League players.... LMK Brian <br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Hi Brian,<br /><br />I have scans of the following ads:<br /><br />August 13, 1909<br />"2 Pictures of Celebrated Baseball Players in Every Box"<br />Shows both major leaguers and southern leaguers<br /><br />August 20, 1909<br />"Two pictures of famous baseball players with every box"<br />Shows only major leaguers<br /><br />Lipset's Encyclopedia mentions a third ad from September 1909 that reads:<br />"2 PICTURES of Southern League Players in Every Box"<br /><br />I don't have the September ad; but it seems possible from this sequence of events that although both major leaguers and southern leaguers were contemplated for release in August 1909, the major leaguers were released a month or so before the southern leaguers. This could help explain smaller extant quantities of Hindu southern leaguers than Hindu major leaguers.<br /><br />Scot<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p>Hi Scot,<br /> I have an August 23 ad that says 2 Southern League players in each pack..... So it didn't even last a whole month. Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />So much for that theory ....

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p>Hi Scot,<br /> It's funny, but it looks like they placed ad's at least 5-6 weeks in a row... I wonder if the cards were in the market before the ads??<br /><br /><img src="http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/hogan6g/d1_3.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Brian,<br /><br />I just noticed that the Hindu ad you posted mentions TEXAS leaguers--which we know weren't even produced with Hindu! What's up with that?<br /><br />Here are the ads that I have scans of:<br /><br /><img src="http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/sreader3/HinduAd2.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/sreader3/HinduAd1.jpg"><br /><br />Scot

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Scot,<br /><br />Looks like Dooin's head coming out of the box as well.<br /><br />Rob

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Scot,<br /> Yes, the ads are very telling... It appears that Southern Leaguers and Major Leaguers were inserted together and seperately in packs, maybe that's why the put 2 in??? The Texas league reference has bothered me for awhile, but I'm assuming they planned on printing them, but chose not too. Maybe Wagner and Plank were on the sheet with the Texas leaguers? Who knows...

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>BRIAN W<br /><br />Curious how close you are to the master set? I myself am short approximately 6,000 cards but I know you and a couple of other guys have some nice T206 collections.<br /><br />Dave

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Dave,<br /> I am way off of "a Master set". I have almost 3000 T206's, but I think it is impossible to complete because so many of the cards survivved in such small numbers. I also believe that the real "Master Set" is probably much smaller, because I don't think some of the possible combinations were ever printed. I do think I am fairly close on a Hindu "Master Set", but we will have to see what data I receive. Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Brian<br />My six brown hindu's are on your known list.<br><br>Drew

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Robert,<br /><br />Yes, definitely Dooin coming out of the box.<br /><br />Brian,<br /><br />3,000 T206 is pretty amazing. Do you mean 3,000 different front/back combos?<br /><br />Scot<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>judson hamlin</b><p>Brian - I can add three to your list: McGraw (pointing), Oldring and L. Tannehill. Seen, but not in my possession. Good luck on the survey.<br /><br />Judson

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Brian,Lobert actually is pretty easy to find with a Brown Hindu back....I just have to look in my room and i can find one <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /> You can add him to the known list

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Guys,<br /> Thanks for the additions, I have made the changes. <br /><br /><br />Hi Scot,<br /> No I do not have 3000 different combinations, just over 3000 total. I haven't added up combo's lately, but would guess it's in the 1700-2000 range. Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>This is great stuff....Brian.<br /><br /> I started this adventure with an all PIEDMONT set......then followed it up with an all SOVEREIGN set.<br />Then we pooled our knowledge and mapped out a POLAR BEAR set, and currently working on an EPDG<br /> set.<br />Putting together these T-brand "sub-sets" of T206's.....and conducting surveys, are the only way we<br /> can get a real handle on all the possible front/back permutations. <br /><br />Now, I congratulate you for taking on this tough challenge of an all HINDU set.<br /><br />Here are the HINDU's I have (or had)....but, I don't think they add any new ones to your list.....<br /><br />Breitenstein<br />Coles<br />Donlin (fldg)<br />Donovan (port)<br />Ewing<br />Guiheen<br />Hickman<br />Hooker<br />Lindaman<br />Molesworth<br />Pattee<br />Powers<br />Schulte (front)<br />Shipke<br />Tinker (h-o-k)<br /><br />I will be on the lookout for HINDU's for your set....Best Wishes<br /><br />TED Z<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Aaron Seefeldt</b><p>.