this is no longer a forum

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>This is no longer a forum. A forum is a place where many people get to communicate and voice their thoughts and opinions. I don't see this as a forum. Adios amigos.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>King- but we do voice and express our opinions, on any number of things. Sorry to see you go, but if anything, we all have too many opinions.

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>King, Sorry to see you go. I know what you are saying to a certain extent. Vayo con dios.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...you just expressed an opinion and nobody stopped you. So if you were shooting for the most ironic post of the day, I think you might have achieved it.<br /><br />Until Leon starts taking money from the Federal Government for his moderator duties, the 1st Amendment does not apply and your posts are governed by the whims of the moderator. That should have been abundantly clear from the get go. <br /><br />I'm sorry you thought this website gave you the right to write anything you wanted about anything.

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>FWIW, my issue is with the new locked thread (3 posts thus far by the moderator), not with the 125 post thread that went into tangents. I'm leaving now for the weekend (just in case people email me about my posts, I may not get back to you til Sunday)

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>I do not agree with the decision to lock the Verkman thread yesterday and I certainly do not believe it is appropriate for there to be a thread where only Leon can post, with the rest of us foreclosed from discussion pending the resolution of a controversy involving an advertiser where Leon apparently has at least a theoretical interest (he has agreed to purchase the card under certain circumstances). With all due respect for the usually excellent job you do here Leon, you are over the top on this one in my humble opinion. EDITED TO CLARIFY

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I agree there is some gray area in the three post thread, but I will let Leon speak for himself.<br /><br />As far as the 125 post thread, I actually called Leon and told him it was time to lock it, so please send half the blame my way. My reasoning was as follows: for 100+ posts we had a very lively discussion- everyone got to express himself and Steve got basically what was coming to him. But the last 15-20 posts were a combination of personal attacks as well as some very bizarre reference to a child pornography site sharing the same web address as Clean Sweep. A few topics should be taboo on even the most liberal chat board, and child porn is one of them. I thought the thread was self destructing.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Good bye.....I am sorry you feel that way but it's certainly your right....take care...

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Steve was an advertiser for 2 mos. He isn't now. As has been completely proven, historically, advertisers get no protection....though I can see there could be a perception of it. The 125 post thread turned into name calling and it was going in a bad direction and off topic. If it couldn't be said in 125 posts I am not sure it could be said....I stand by that decision. best regards

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Posted By: <b>Kyle</b><p>Is it really worth being upset about it? This is a free forum, you're spending no money, you can pick and choose what threads you read, you get use to the BST boards for free, you can lurk or post a lot... what else can this place do for you? If you want topics on certain items, cards, issues, opinions, ideas, etc.... then start those topics!

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Posted By: <b>Brian McQueen</b><p><br />I think I understand what Leon was trying to do here. He wasn't trying to say that only his opinion matters and that no one else should have a say. He wanted to have a thread on the board where he could update people with what is going on with this situation without having it clouded over by everyone's opinons and more fighting. Just a small thread where people could find the latest update quickly without having to surf through a bunch of other miscellaneous posts. <br /><br />The community at large did have their say on this topic for a couple days. Then the thread got stale, fighting broke out, and the thread went off into it's own sub-tangents so it was locked. This is a normal procedure for controversial threads. Everyone gets their say and then when the thread begins to fall apart and no longer serve it's purpose, we put a stop to it. <br /><br />No need to worry, I'm sure we'll have plenty of opportunities to express further ideas on this subject coming up in the near future.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Brian<br />redmaccie@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>of message boards....seriously people are free to go and those who run the boards are free to manage them as they see fit. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I took it the same way as Brian.<br /><br />I didn't think Leon was trying to create a "private thread". I thought he was trying to find a quick and effective way to update the situation without having it diluted with 100 more posts. If there were something like a memo area on the board he wouldn't have needed to do it, but there isn't. So he created a read-only thread for updates in this one case. I can't see a problem with that.<br /><br />There is another thing he could have done. He could have not posted the thread or updates at all and left everyone in the dark. I think choosing to make a read-only thread as a quick substitute for a memo area was both creative and appreciated. <br /><br />As to locking the original thread, I agree that when the child porn post hit the whole thing went into a ditch instantly. Mods make the decision as to when a thread gets locked. If there are 150 people on this board there would be 150 opinions as to when exactly a thread should be locked. If 148 of us are going to sweat it because Leon and/or Brian didn't pick the exact same timing we would, well - ok. I have bigger things to worry about. <br /><br />And as to the moderator job - Leon can certainly have it! I can't believe how deeply he's gotten involved with this thing, trying to broker some understanding when truly he has no obligation to do that whatsoever. What a pain in the rear. Like I said Leon - you can have it. After the last two or three days I'm not sure you'd find anyone else that would take it!<br /><br />Joann<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>Brian's post hits the nail directly on the head. It appeared to me that Leon was trying to simplify the communication process. Many forums have a moderator's message section or something equivalent but this one does not. I can tell already that unlocking that thread is going to create a mess in terms of sifting through the solution-based posts. It will probably be a thread that I will just skip over because of what I expect may be a large volume of jibberish.<br /><br />Leon is in a leadership role and can make mistakes...he has to make decisions on certain issues. The rest of us can write moronic post after moronic post and it's all good. Leon's role as moderator puts him in a role to receive criticism, that the rest of us do not have to deal with, but damn let's give him a break. It's not an easy job.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>and therefore Brian, and I guess I am in agreement, then with Cat...thank you for all the hard work, Leon...although I would personally, if asked, advise against buying the thing for $19k if it comes back as 1930s era paper and ink, because, obviously, that proves nothing.<br />

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>I see that Leon has unlocked his own thread. I think that's a good thing (not that I think this thread had anything to do with it). It is best for me to stay away. Bye

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Chalk me up as one more person who saw nothing wrong with locking either thread. Brian, Joanne and Cat have adequately expressed my views, so I wont add anything further.

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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>I'm squarely behind Brian et.al.<br /><br />Rob M.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>King,<br /><br />Don't take Leon's locked thread personally, it's no different than if he had a column in a newspaper. You can state your opinion in a separate thread, like you've done here or you can e-mail directly to Leon.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>I have found it to be fairly easy in on-line communities to avoid the discussions that I am not interested in, or the threads that degenerate into insult-swapping and so on. We are bombarded with so much useless information nowadays that we have to get good at using our time wisely when sifting through it all. This forum really does have some good knowledgeable people and I think provides a valuable service to the card collecting community.<br /><br />King, I hope you change your mind and stick around, because your expertise is highly valued here. But if you no longer want to participate I can understand.

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>King,<br /><br />I also hope you decide to stick around. One of the best posts I've ever read here was one you made around a year ago with an overview of 33 Goudeys that was informative, concise, and a pleasure to read. It was really a perfect example of what a forum does and why this one is so good. You have a lot to add to the core dialog and mission of this forum, and I really hope you will decide to continue.<br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Always appreciated your opinions, curt and all. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Me thinks this must have been building in you for a while, and not all simply based on one locked thread. If so, perhaps time will wither away the discontent and the love of the topic will draw you inextricably back!<br />Hope so.<br /><br /><br />As others have said, I also saw nothing wrong with Leon's actions, though the format WAS an unusual sight.<br /><br /><br />Daniel<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Well freedom of speech isn't guaranteed by the Constitution. We're told that, but it isn't true. What is says is that Congress can't abridge it. The Constitution is not a right-giving document-- it is a power-limiting document. It limits the power of the federal government. <br /><br />What freedom of speech would be is that cmoking can start his own board, it is not that he gets to post what he wants here.<br /><br />As it is he stayed gone 42 minutes before posting again...<br /><br />And Leon made decisions that mitigated the mess when he locked one thread and the made another private. He dealt with it quite well, I thought.<br /><br />So I perceive the place to still be a forum. I wish it would focus more on vintage cards and less on slabbing, population reports, set registry, and the like. But I'm certain many folks wish the board would focus even more on those things... A good forum. Thank you, Leon.