The Top 5 Hofer's

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>My list<br />Babe Ruth<br />Ty Cobb<br />Lou Gehrig<br />Walter Johnson<br />Christy Mathewson

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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Babe Ruth<br />Josh Gibson<br />Honus Wagner<br />Willie Mays<br />Oscar Charleston<br /><br />-Ryan

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Posted By: <b>Brett</b><p>This is a tough one, but for these guys should be top 3 anyways...<br /><br />Ty Cobb<br />Babe Ruth<br />Walter Johnson<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Aaron</b><p>Ty Cobb<br />Babe Ruth<br />Honus Wagner<br />Walter Johnson<br />Willie Mays

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Babe Ruth<br />Lou Gehrig<br />Ty Cobb<br />Walter Johnson<br />Tie: Willie Mays and Joe DiMaggio

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>I tell you what, you'd have a hard time knocking about 20 off the top 5 list... I think the original 5 are pretty darn good... then there were others after them....<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Damian Anderson</b><p>Tough call, my list in no order<br /><br />Babe Ruth<br />Ty Cobb<br />Ted Williams<br />Willie Mays<br />Hank Aaron<br /><br />Sorry to omit Negro League. I am quite a bit ignorant at this point. No pitchers, other than Ruth and really no need to take into consideration just a plus. This is a very hard call to bring to just five. Painfully absent are Young, Mathewson, Clemente, Jackie, Rose(Gambling Pete not in the hall), Gehrig, Ryan, and Wagner. Sorry Joe D does not make the list.<br /><br />Damian<br />

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>1 Ruth<br />2 Williams<br />3 Mays<br />4 Wagner<br />5 Cobb<br /><br />Hornsby,Gehrig,Bonds,Musial and Johnson would round out the top 10. I think after the top 3 my opinion changes constantly on 4-10

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Wagner<br />Cobb<br />Johnson<br />Ruth<br />Mathewson<br /><br />Not necessarily in that order, but maybe so. I base that on reading old baseball books, new baseball books about old baseball, looking at commentary in the old guides, and considering the voiced perceptions of their contemporary players... devoid of New York bias.<br /><br />Frank W.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />All the prior responses have pretty much covered the bases for the top 5. Only person I think might sneak in is Lefty Grove.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Ray</b><p>That's a VERY tough question.<br /><br />Here's mine (the bottom three could change on how I feel that day):<br /><br />Ruth<br />Cobb<br />Wagner<br />Hornsby<br />Walter Johnson

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Babe Ruth<br />Ty Cobb<br />Lou Gehrig<br />Walter Johnson<br />Hank Aaron<br /><br />Second team:<br /><br />Honus Wagner<br />Cy Young<br />Christy Mathewson<br />Ted Williams<br />Willie Mays<br /><br />There are too many greats to have only five.

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Posted By: <b>David G</b><p>My picks would be:<br /><br />Babe Ruth<br />Walter Johnson<br />Ty Cobb<br />Honus Wagner<br />Ted Williams<br /><br />Second 5 would have to be<br />Mickey Mantle<br />Hank Aaron<br />Joe DiMaggio<br />Willie Mays<br />Christy Mathewson

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>babe ruth<br />ty cobb<br />chrsty mathewson<br />lou gehrig<br />cy young<br /><br />2nd team:<br /><br />mickey mantle<br />willie mays<br />honus wagner<br />walter johnson<br />joe dimaggio

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Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p>The one constant in everyone's response has been Babe Ruth.<br /><br />All but 1 of you listed Ty Cobb.<br /><br />So I begin with those 2;<br />Babe Ruth<br />Ty Cobb<br /><br />my next 3 would have to be;<br />Mickey Mantle<br />Hank Aaron<br />Watler Johnson<br /><br /><br><br>martyOgelvie<br />nyyankeecards.com

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>In order, position players only<br /><br />1. Babe Ruth<br />2. Willie Mays<br />3. Hank Aaron<br />4. Honus Wagner<br />5. Ty Cobb<br /><br />When the time comes, slide Barry Bonds right above Wagner.<br /><br />-Al<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>Wagner<br />Cobb <br />Ruth<br />Johnson<br />Williams<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Sean Coe</b><p>Ruth<br />Mays<br />Josh Gibson<br />Walter Johnson<br />Wagner

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Posted By: <b>T E</b><p>Can't see any modern player cracking this list...top two-<br />Ruth<br />Cobb<br /><br />then...<br />Mays<br />Williams<br />Jackie<br /><br />But...How do I leave off <br />Rogers Hornsby...only one mention of Hornsby thus far, amazing, he just won, what, six straight batting titles, six consecutive slugging pct titles, all-time BA leader in single season...incredible average, incredible power...lifetime BA= .358...you can argue he was Ruth's equal during the same time period, not quite the pop but a better hitter, which is an amazing statement...could this guy be underated because there really isn't a famous card of him? <br /><br />Willie, Jackie and Teddy Ballgame, one of you has to get off my list...<br /><br />And what about Satchel? And Christy? Ah shucks.

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Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> One of my pet topics.<br /> 1. The Sultan of Swat<br /> 2. Teddy Ballgame<br /> 3. The Georgia Peach<br /> 4. The Say Hey Kid<br /> 5. Joltin' Joe<br /> 6. The Flying Dutchman<br /> 7. The Commerce Comet<br /><br />The above list, for me, represent the creme de la creme. Pitchers get their own list. <br /><br />PS: No Bonds allowed here: only normal people!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I agree with the postscript, John K.<br /><br />BB can be in a pharmaceutical hall of fame. Pete is already in the Gamblers Hall of Fame, at the Tropicana in Las Vegas, so I'm told.

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Posted By: <b>David G</b><p>Here are some top 5 modern players hofers<br /><br />Nolan Ryan<br />Reggie Jackson<br />Steve Carlton<br />Eddie Murray<br />George Brett<br /><br />May get some grief on some...but....

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Posted By: <b>T E</b><p>David G, you can't take Ryan over Seaver, can you? For all those Ks and No-hitters, the guy was not the one I'd want on the mound in a do-or-die situation. Seaver, Koufax, Gibson were CLUTCH HOFs...

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>In no particular order (since Top 5 is hard enough!)<br /><br />Josh Gibson<br />Honus Wagner<br />Kirby Puckett<br />Rogers Hornsby<br />Jocko Conlon<br />

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Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>5 Best Hall of Famers<br />Babe Ruth<br />Ty Cobb<br />Willie Mays<br />Lou Gehrig<br />Walter Johnson<br /><br />5 favorite Hall of Famers<br /><br />Willie Stargell<br />Honus Wagner<br />George Brett<br />Roberto Clemente<br />Babe Ruth

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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>1)Babe Ruth<br />2)Mickey Mantle<br />3)Joe DiMaggio<br />4)Ty Cobb<br />5)Lou Gehrig

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Ruth<br />Wagner<br />Cobb <br />Charleston<br />Johnson<br />----<br />Hon. Mention (no real order)<br />J. Gibson<br />Grove<br />Paige<br />Young<br />Mays<br />Gehrig<br />Mantle<br />Aaron<br />T. Williams<br />Delahanty<br />Speaker<br />Anson<br />E. Collins<br />Musial<br />(note - only one 2b and no 3bs)<br />----<br />Possible Future additions :<br />Clemens -- <br />Bonds<br />Arod (will be the greatest 3b ever)<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Ruth,Cobb,Wagner,Johnson,Mathewson---My top 5<br /><br />My only problem with asserting this list is that Ruth's not on my<br />beloved T206s. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />But thankfully, Ruth made baseball BASEBALL<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />barry<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>Tough to rank pitchers and hitters together. . . <br /><br />Hitters<br />1. Ruth<br />2. Cobb<br />3. Wagner<br />4. Williams<br />5. Mays<br /><br />Pitchers<br />1. Johnson<br />2. Grove<br />3. Mathewson<br />4. Paige<br />5. Young<br /><br /><br />Clemens moves into the top five if he ever retires. . .

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Ruth<br />Wagner<br />Cobb<br />Williams <br />Gehrig<br /><br />Second Choices:<br />DiMaggio<br />Mays<br />Walter Johnson<br />Cy Young<br />Lefty Grove

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>No question that Ruth and Cobb are or should be in everyone's top 5. Assuming Rose eventually gets in: does he get into the top 5 ahead of, say, an Aaron or Mays? And if not, does he merit a position ahead of the other modern greats such as Schmidt, Jackson, et al?

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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>Pete Rose is not even close to the top five. There were plenty of better players than him even when he was playing, even on his own team. Jackson and Schmidt are among those better than Rose.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>my God, Howard is exactly right on this one.<br />he was just a singles hitter, but I suppose if you ever wanted the best player at running to first on a walk, well, then, Rose is your chump<br /><br />Rose is not Top 75

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Rose could probably be in the top 5 HUSTLE players. He played with all his heart and soul. I'm not saying others didn't but you could call Rose the ultimate over-achiever. He played so much that the longevity factor really makes him stand out because of his hits record. I would in no way berate Roses ability as a player because he played the game the way it was supposed to be played. He's to baseball what Dick Butkus was to football. Look what he did to Ray Fosse in 1971... he just played old style, hard nose, tough as nails, in your face - baseball. How many players can make the claim that they played over 600 games at 4 different positions. <br /><br />I don't think Rose is a top 5 overall player though...

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Posted By: <b>sean</b><p>ty cobb<br />rogers hornsby<br />honus wagner<br />walter johnson<br />john mcgraw<br />

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Posted By: <b>blackborder</b><p>1. Babe Ruth (good grief, the guy was a power hitter who had a lifetime .342 average and almost 100 wins pitching with a .671 winning percentage which was higher than Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, or Walter Johnson!)<br /><br />2. Walter Johnson (417 wins and had he not played for the dismal Washington teams of the deadball era, he would have probably had 500+ wins)<br /><br />3. Ty Cobb (not a nice person to be sure but you have to give him his due as probably the greatest competitor baseball has ever known)<br /><br />4. John McGraw. (not only was he a great manager but also a great player, with a lifetime average of .334. He also changed the game of baseball and brought it into the modern era, both as a player in Baltimore and as a manager in New York.)<br /><br />5. This is a tough choice, there are a dozen players who could be number 5. I'm going with Micky Mantle. He was one of the greatest players of all time even though he was playing way below 100% most of the time due to injuries. Had he been healthy, he might have been the greatest player of all time.)

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, that's exactly why Mantle is not a top 5 HOFer; he wasn't one of the best of all time. While I love the Mick, he had like 4 100 RBI seasons...

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Posted By: <b>Jim</b><p>in no particular order....<br /><br />Ruth<br />Mantle<br />Ryan<br />Mays<br />Cobb

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Posted By: <b>Glenn</b><p>Ruth<br />Johnson<br />Cobb<br />J. Gibson<br />Williams<br /><br />(And I'd have to put Clemens ahead of Seaver, Ryan, Carlton, Koufax or B. Gibson... or anybody else since Johnson) <br /><br />edited to initialize my Gibsons

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>Ruth<br />Cobb<br />Matty<br />Gehrig<br />SPeaker

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Thank you, Blackborder... <br /><br />Up there somewhere I have:<br /><br />Wagner<br />Cobb<br />Johnson<br />Ruth<br />Mathewson<br /><br />And I was satisfied with the validity of those 5. But you've dredged up McGraw, and I think he should replace Mathewson in the 5th slot.<br /><br />So now I'll go with this:::<br /><br />Wagner<br />Cobb<br />Johnson<br />Ruth<br />McGraw

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Posted By: <b>George Dreher</b><p>Babe Ruth<br />Ty Cobb<br />Lou Gehrig<br />Honus Wagner<br />Walter Johnson

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Posted By: <b>CN</b><p>Willie Mays,Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Gary Carter, Duke Snider, Warren Spahn,Casey Stengel I am still waiting for Mike Piazza and Tom Glavine to get in. Let's Go Mets. CN

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Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> I was born in 1945 and when I was a kid the standard answer to who was the greatest ballplayer of all time was Ty Cobb. I think most of us are aware of the famous quote by Cobb about what he thought about Ruth (I think at the time of his death). The gist of it was that he was a great guy ("the most unaffected man I ever met") but he didn't approve of the style of play he brought to the game: the game should be played inside the fences with more nuance Cobb felt.<br /> If is one of the favorite words used by fans of all sports. I'd like to come to the Mick's defense here. If Joe D hadn't called him of that flyball and Mick hadn't veered off and run into the sprinkler or drain or whatever it was that didn't belong there, who knows what he would have done. Of course, hanging out with Billy Martin didn't help.<br /> Another if I'd like to bring up are the five lost years of Ted Williams. What would his boxscore look like. Also, how many homers would he have with that short right field in Yankee Stadium to shoot at for half of every season? Or if he was a Tiger (he loved hitting in that field).<br /> Lastly, I'd like to say a few words about Roger Clemens. He is simply not as good as Koufax or Pedro, no matter how many years he can go on winning games. Talent and longevity are two different things. We know from reading about the days of Cy Young that he was not as good as Walter, Matty, or Alex to name three. I would compare Roger and Cy in that they were both blessed with a very long career and were able to accumulate wonderful statistics (like Rose or Aaron?). But does that make them the guy you pick first after you choose up sides in the field of dreams?

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Posted By: <b>Don</b><p>"Well, that's exactly why Mantle is not a top 5 HOFer; he wasn't one of the best of all time. While I love the Mick, he had like 4 100 RBI seasons..."<br /><br />Mantle never had a decent leadoff man batting ahead of him, and he also walked a lot.<br /><br />Mantle led the league in Runs six times. Mays led the league in Runs twice.<br /><br />Career Adjusted OPS (pre-steroid era adjustments)<br />Mantle -- 1000<br />Mays -- 953<br /><br />Mays played in the NL which had more hitter-friendly parks.<br /><br />Mantle had more power, more speed, and more "intangibles" than Willie Mays did.<br /><br />Mays one advantage was fielding. And Mantle was a very good defensive player.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Don</b><p>"Also, how many homers would he have with that short right field in Yankee Stadium to shoot at for half of every season? Or if he was a Tiger (he loved hitting in that field)."<br /><br />Williams probably would have hit more HRs if he had played in Yankee Stadium or Tiger Stadium more often. But Fenway was awful kind to his batting stats. Ted hit .360 at home compared to .328 on the road. His career OPS was 70 points higher at home than it was on the road.<br /><br />Ted hit .305 at Yankee Stadium -- that number is probably lowered because he was consistently facing the top pitching staff in the league there. But the point is, he probably wouldn't have won seven batting titles without the Fenway-Factor.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Don</b><p>Players<br /><br />1. Babe Ruth<br />2. Lou Gehrig<br />3. Ty Cobb<br />4. Honus Wagner<br />5. Stan Musial<br /><br />Pitchers<br /><br />1. Walter Johnson<br />2. Lefty Grove<br />3. Cy Young<br />4. Christy Mathewson<br />5. Grover Alexander

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Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> Hey Don: Ted was a dead pull hitter and certainly was hurt by the long distance in right field. Your point is well taken about how tough, in general, Yankee pitching was during his career. But if he was a Yankee, he wouldn't have to face them. I think the green background of Fenway and Detroit helped Ted see the ball better. Likewise, Joe D suffered with the long shot to left he faced in Yankee Stadium. Also, Musial has been on record as saying that he was not the hitter Ted was. You sure about Grove? You know he did pitch for the Red Sox.

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Posted By: <b>Don</b><p>John -- Musial wasn't the hitter that Williams was. Even taking into consideration the Fenway-Factor, Williams was one of the three-to-five greatest offensive players of all time. But Musial was the better all-around player. He was a better fielder, a better base-runner, and a better teammate. And he could hit a little too.<br /><br />I have nothing against Red Sox players, but it's hard to deny that Red Sox and Cubs hitters benefited from their home parks.<br /><br />Bobby Doerr<br />Home - .315<br />Road - .256<br /><br />Jim Rice<br />Home - .320<br />Road - .277<br /><br />Ron Santo<br />Home - .522 SLUG<br />Road - .406 SLUG<br /><br />Ryne Sandberg<br />Home - 852 OPPS<br />Road - 738 OPS<br /><br />And yes I'm aware that Grove pitched for the Red Sox (although his best years were with the Athletics).

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />Lefty was one of the all-time greats. Connie Mack's ace starter on all-time great Philadelphia A's teams. Why doesn't he get more respect. Clearly the best lefty starter of all-time. Sandy Koufax and Warren Spahn simply do not compare.<br /><br />Possessor of one of lowest ERAs of all-time. Wicked fastball and near-perfect control.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I suppose it depends what the question is asking. Is the question: Who are the best 5 baseball players of alltime? Who are the most popular HOFs among pre-war collectors for collecting purposes? I think the answer would differ depending on what question is being asked.<br /><br />I think the most popular among collectors of pre-war cards are:<br /><br />Wagner<br />Cobb<br />Johnson<br />Mathewson<br />Ruth<br /><br />Best players of all-time:<br /><br />Cobb<br />Ruth <br />Williams<br />Mays<br />Johnson<br /><br /><br />Close runner-ups:<br /><br />Gerhig<br />Young

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p> You're basing your idea that Stan was a better team mate than Ted on what?

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />Ted was well-respected by his teammates and maintained a closed relationship with them after his playing days.<br /><br />He got a bad rep only because he had a running feud with the Boston media.<br /><br />I really have no idea whether he was a better or worst teammate than Stan Musial.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>The Musial-Williams beliefs would probably have been founded on hearsay, or what's been read or said by their teammates, or by reading the first Historical Baseball Abstract and reading what Bill James had to say. Cogent. <br /><br />I share their views. Williams seems to have been the better pure hitter, though. Still, Stan was no slouch at the plate.<br /><br />So go read what Bill James said in that first book, then come back and post.

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Posted By: <b>Don</b><p>"You're basing your idea that Stan was a better team mate than Ted on what?"<br /><br />Williams had a close relationship with his teammates (Dom DiMaggio for example) and opposing players (Joe DiMaggio for example). He was also a class act in many ways. But he could also be selfish and very stubborn. His refusal to go the other way was both selfish and stubborn. There have been references to Williams placing personal statistics above team success. I don't think anybody would dare say the same about Musial. Musial went out of his way to help out younger players, and many of those players simply adored him.<br /><br />My statement wasn't that Williams was a poor teammate, it was that Musial was a BETTER teammate. <br />

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Posted By: <b>John Kalafarski</b><p> Your notion that Ted put his stats over team is pure rubbish. Only from a Yankee fan!<br /><br />PS: Try The Teammates by David Halberstam and Lee Montville's Ted Williams. You might change your tune.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />Paige should have been on somebody's top five list. All the stories about him asking his outfielders to sit down in the field while he pitched have to have some validity. And to then subsequently strike out the side, that kind of story creates a legend. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>George Dreher</b><p>That reminds me of the stories that he had them remove the plate during warmup because it was too big of a target and he would throw strikes over a thimble. Also, he used to kill birds with rocks while they were flying overhead.

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>before ol satch was born rube waddle called in his team and struck out the side on 9 pitches.<br /><img src="http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l239/dcc1/waddle.jpg">