Auctions ending early to the chagrin of bidders

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>As someone who's not an active seller, my question is why don't<br />sellers clearly state they do not end auctions early and don't end<br />auctions early as a device to gain bidders and bidder loyalty. Wouldn't<br />bidders be happier to place a bid in actions where they know the rug<br />won't be pulled underneath them?<br /><br />Duly note, however, that if the seller finds that this technique does <br />not gain more bidders compared to the auction-ending seller, he can feel <br />free to quit the practice as bidders, while saying they like the practice,<br />have voted otherwise with their bidding. In other words it is up to <br />collectors to do more than give lip service to full-length auctioneers if they<br />expect to continue.

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy</b><p>But, the fact of the matter is, the winning bids come in the last few seconds. Right or wrong, that's how it seems to me.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>My strong belief is that people not bidding until the end is why<br />many auctioneers end auctions early. If a $2,000 item has a bid of $5 on<br />day 5, it should not be surprising that the seller will entertain<br />fair offers. So I do place much of the blame for auctions ending early<br />on snipe bidders.

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy</b><p>If I were selling something that I knew very little about on Ebay with a 7 day listing & watched the days go by with little or no bidding...I would entertain offers.

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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>Sellers have to understand that there are a lot of these guys out there. Once they do they'll stop closing down auctions prematurely.<br /><br />Item Category No. of Bids Seller Last Bid <br />Item 1 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 1 &lt;1h <br />Item 2 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 2 &lt;1h <br />Item 3 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 2 &lt;1h <br />Item 4 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 5 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 6 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 7 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 4 &lt;1h <br />Item 8 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 4 &lt;1h <br />Item 9 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 4 &lt;1h <br />Item 10 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 5 &lt;1h <br />Item 11 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 6 &lt;1h <br />Item 12 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 7 &lt;1h <br />Item 13 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 7 &lt;1h <br />Item 14 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 8 &lt;1h <br />Item 15 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 9 &lt;1h <br />Item 16 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 10 &lt;1h <br />Item 17 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 4 &lt;1h <br />Item 18 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 10 &lt;1h <br />Item 19 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 10 &lt;1h <br />Item 20 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 11 &lt;1h <br />Item 21 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 12 &lt;1h <br />Item 22 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 12 &lt;1h <br />Item 23 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 12 &lt;1h <br />Item 24 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 25 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 26 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 27 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 28 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 29 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br />Item 30 Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop &gt; Cards &gt; Baseball-MLB 1 Seller 3 &lt;1h <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />But it's like they always say, "bird in hand is worth two in the bush." The seller may have recieved a definite offer from somebody they trust, why take a chance on a sniper who may or may not appear.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>And watch the snipers duel it out with their MAX during the last few seconds. ..... this is not for the feint of heart.

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>I must agree with Peter. As a seller if a receive an outstanding offer from a collector that I know I will always shut down the auction rather than wait hopefully for an onslaught of bids in the last ten seconds.

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>If I find a seller pulling a Hudini, I simply take him off the list of last second shootouts.<br /><br />The adventures spirit can be found in the seller as well as the buyer. .... life is a crap shoot.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I should add that I understand that many bidders use sniper bids to <br />avoid shill bidding by sellers-- which, of course, happens. So dishonest<br />sellers are often a cause for snipe/late bidding ... Though this returns to<br />a seller establishing himself as honest and reliable by saying how he runs his<br />auctions and sticking to what he said.

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>Please tell me why I should start bidding 6 days before the end of the auction?<br /><br />Outside of ego, what is the advantage of getting into an ego fight with anyone 6-5-4-3-2 days before the end of an auction?<br /><br />I don't believe in tipping off what I'm interested in before the last few seconds of an auction, maybe you do?<br /><br />If a seller wants to shut down and take an offer, ... what's the problem?<br /><br />The only thing that they'll miss is:<br />Is the outcome of ... The shootout at the O.K. corral. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />If the item is really good, God knows what the numbers would be.<br /><br />David, your style is usually to disappear after questions like this, but if you decide to stay, thoroughly think out your thoughts before you tap them down.<br />Try to avoid:<br /><br />This message has been edited by drc1 on Mar 6, 2007 5:12 PM<br />This message has been edited by drc1 on Mar 6, 2007 5:10 PM<br />This message has been edited by drc1 on Mar 6, 2007 5:08 PM<br /><br />You don't want the editing to be longer than your answer.<br />Keep <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Joe P.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Quit picking on David, I always enjoy his thoughtful responses and contributions.<br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>Jim Clarke</b><p>I think we should have two thread always at the top of the page. These two topics will be very important for our board.<br /><br />1. ALL ITEMS WE THINK ARE CONTERFITS OR REPRINTS<br /><br />2. EBAY AUCTIONS ENDED EARLY. (We can all give them a rash of s@#$ and maybe report them to Ebay)<br /><br />This will be the first step in policing the industry....<br /><br />JC

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Actually, Joe, I think you points are fair.<br /><br />Late bidding is often justified, but a side effect is that auctions will be <br />ended early as a response. Sellers get nervous when there is little bidding<br />on an item, and may not want their success to have to depend on sniper bids that<br />may or may not materialize. Anyone who's had an expensive item go for cheap<br />when the sniper bids didn't materialize understand the seller's nervousness.<br /><br />This all came about because I noticed that a well know eBay seller clearly stated<br />he does not end auctions early, and I thought that that statement might garner<br />loyalty from collectors who don't like auctions to be ended early. Personally,<br />I feel people who end auctions early, and make bidders mad at them, are exchanging<br />short term gain for bidder loyalty. I don't see how alienating bidders is <br />good for longterm business. I bookmark my favorite sellers. A seller <br />who did things I didn't like-- ala auctions I was looking at regularly went <br />Poof or I strongly suspected the seller shilled or the seller used dishonest <br />descriptions-- I would remove from the bookmarks. As my bookmarked sellers <br />are a source of much to most of my bids, and removed sellers are sellers I <br />will no longer follow, the removal is not an insignificant act. Granted I'm<br />not a big eBay spender, but I wonder if other sellers are doing similarly.<br />Presumably, when a collector lists his favorite eBay sellers for the benefit of<br />a fellow collector who asked, he doesn't pick sellers who who do things <br />that infuriate him.

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>If the people who close auctions early are those people who for lack of a better term, "walk into" a nice collection or card and don't really follow the hobby. Therefore, when there is no bid for the first few days and they get a high offer, off goes the card from the board so to speak.<br /><br />Now, an experienced dealer (Let's say Levi or Kevin Savage just to name long time dealers) will post a card and even if no big bid comes in early, they know to wait till the sniping starts.<br /><br />Does this make sense to everyone.<br /><br />Rich

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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>i've never ended an auction early...though asked only about 1/4 of the time on really good cards, and every time the "end it early" offers were lower than what the card sold for...

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Posted By: <b>Sean Coe</b><p>I've never ended an auction early and I've received some tempting offers. Part of me just doesn't think its fair, that once I've commited to selling this way I should see it through to the end. On the other hand I'm also a bit of a gambler and I have faith that if it's a good item bidders will come.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I once put up for auction a large trophy given to football HOFers George Blanda & George Connor for winning a celebrity golf tournament. A Bears fan offered me a liberal price to end the auction early. I told him to bid instead, as his offer was higher than the trophy would go for. He won the auction at lower price (as I expected), but higher than I paid for the trophy-- so we were both satisfied. As a seller, my rule was to never end an auction early if there was at least one bid, so the dilema of whether or not to end the auction was not an issue.<br /><br />Two reasons I never ended an auction early if there was a bidder was because I felt it was unfair to the bidders, and two I figured there would be a fair chance the jilted bidders wouldn't bid in my future auctions. A third (of two) reasons is I felt it important for efficiency's sake to have set rules before running an auction-- shipping, returns, end, etc. When everything about an auction is up for negotiation and debate (usually with yourself), you'll go crazy. If no ending an auction is the rule, it's one less thing to worry about.

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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>another good point david, i hold "grudges" against certain sellers if they are rude in replies, never send a scan or answer a question if i've asked several times, etc...<br /><br />but on the other hand i'm down to needing only 2 cards to finish my collection and if anyone has it, i'll put aside the previous encounters if they are selling...<br /><br />so if you have that zeenut weaver for sale, send me your scans and price...*hint, hint*

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>David, I'm beginning to think that the Gods are against me.<br /><br />First I started my post by questioning your post as one being posted by an imposter.<br />Then I went back to re check the thread and I found that your post had a few edits added to it. ... sigh of relief, that's when I knew it was you.<br />As I'm still tapping away I noticed that it started to snow in Virginia.<br />After a short panic, I rushed out to get food supplies.<br />Then I had to deal with an auction.<br /><br />Six different items going off at the same time.<br /><br />For a sniper that doesn't use any contraption but his own timing. ... that sort of stuff can lead to a nervous breakdown. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />By a stroke of luck, @ss and a touch of collectors insanity, I went 6 for 6.<br /><br />Too worn out to continue my post, I waited till today to finish it.<br /><br />David, you and many others on this thread have valid viewpoints as to what might make a Houdini seller behave.<br /><br />I think that all of us can agree on one thing.<br />In most cases the scared Houdini will miss out on a GOOD hit.<br /><br />I then tried to post this.<br />Found out that I was no longer registered.<br />It erased everything I had written.<br />Had to sign in again, and write everything from memory.<br /><br />BTW David, I'm glad you came back.<br />As a betting man, I wudda looked up my favorite bookie and laid some bread down that you wouldn't show up.<br />I wuz wrong, I wudda lost. ... but I'm glad you showed up. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />There are 8 million stories in our Naked City.<br />..... and this has been one of them.<br /><br />Joe P.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>There's something on eBay I really want at the moment. After seeing several items disappear because of what you are talking about, I specifically told the guy that I would be interested in knowing a BIN price that they would be willing to end the auction for. He told me that it was his policy to never end auctions early. At least now I have some assurance from him that this won't happen.

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Posted By: <b>T E</b><p>I don't end auctions early, as a rule, but it is a rule I am beginning to think may deserve the old heave-ho. <br /><br />The problem with sniping is that, if you are depending on this "game" to bring in your daily bread, it is becoming harder and harder to know what the hell you are going to be earning this week when all is said and done. All of you snipers out there (almost the entire board, I would think!) might want to consider this: An early bid doesn't mean you have to immediately launch a WW3 bidding war. It simply expresses to the seller that there is a legitimate buyer interested in his or her item.<br /><br />Personally, I wish ebay could go to a format like the major auction houses employ online, where you have to have a bid in by a certain time, and then the auction doesn't close until there are no bids for, say, 1 minute. Will never happen.<br /><br />Well, I've probably said too much already. Think I'll go to bed and finish The Thin Man, which I amazingly have never read before. Book is MUCH better than the movie, which is saying something. It is the kind of book that, as the pages left to read become fewer and fewer, brings a sadness to the heart that there is not just one more chapter to go through.

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>*