Any thoughts on Ebay's new $200 switch of bidder ID ? [Archive]

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02-03-2007, 05:50 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI, for one, do not like this new feature for one simple reason...... It's impossible to identify "shill" bidding anymore with this "anonymous" bidder listing that ebay automatically switches to, once the bidding amount exceeds $200. on a given lot. There must be beneficial reasons for incorporating this feature, and I'm sure you guys can enumerate them......so, what are your opinions on this numeric bidder listing ? TED Z

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02-03-2007, 05:57 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellI don't like it either Ted for a different reason. I like to know who I am bidding against as that will impact how much I bid for an it. If for example, I am bidding against Don Spence or Don Louchios I just give up immediately as I will not win. If I am bidding against a price sensitive bidder I will hang in there.

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02-03-2007, 06:07 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliI've met a lot of good people just by bumping into the same Ebay IDs over and over again, bidding on the stuff I like to bid on. Once in a while when I see the same ID, I'll reach out to that person and introduce myself. Occasionally that person has dupes I could use, or vice-versa. For that reason alone, I don't like it. I also pay attention to who's bidding on stuff I collect - it helps me understand the market. For example, on 38 Goudeys I used to keep a spreadsheet of every sale - including who was the buyer and who was the seller. This helps me understand who is collecting the set, and who still needs what cards. This way I can predict who I'll be bidding against if there's an upgrade on eBay that I'm interested in. Now I can't find that information out anymore. As far as shilling is concerned, I can see how that could be an issue as well, but I snipe everything and I only pay prices I'm comfortable paying, so as much as I hate shill bidding, I try not to get too riled up about it. -Al

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02-03-2007, 06:10 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisDITTO.....You hit the "nail on the head" with your comment. And, to follow up with what you said, I will not be able to see if I am contending against a friend, or perhaps a Net54 member, that I don't wish to bid against. TED Z

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02-03-2007, 06:14 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI don't like it either....and I wonder if it's going to cost ebay money in the long run. I used to avoid any private auction in the past and essentially they've made all $200+ auction private. I have also started to use the snipe option less and just going ahead and placing my bid since people can no longer track my bidding with the search function.

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02-03-2007, 06:18 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisGood points also...... And, I just thought of another disadvantage......if there is a lot of several cards and you might be interested in one (or two), with the old system you could contact the winner to see if they would be interested doing a deal. Now, I don't know how you can do this anymore.

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02-03-2007, 06:35 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaTed, that was one of ebay's objectives for making the change. They wanted to make it harder for people to contact each other because it cuts them out of the deal.

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02-03-2007, 06:39 AM

Posted By: jay woltTED - You stated that you wouldn't bid up a friend or LTS member, so that costs eBay some money and you stated you like to deal w/ bidders and if its not an eBay transaction, that too costs them some money. So I bet those were 2 reasons they did this. I miss the old way as well, the bidder #7, the bidder #3 & bidder #5 being the top 3 bidders leaves you flat when you want to see who was in the running on a lot you lost. Edited to add, Dan beat me to it

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02-03-2007, 06:50 AM

Posted By: Kenneth A. CohenTed - I agree. The new system stinks for all of the reasons cited. However, I believe you can still contact the winner as that is the one bidder who is still revealed to all once the auction concludes. Ken

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02-03-2007, 06:55 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI wasn't aware of that....but, I hope you are correct. Thanx, TED Z

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02-03-2007, 07:07 AM

Posted By: Steve M.The new system doesn't really bother me much. If its shill bidding you are concerned about there's not much you can do about it anyway. I suspect that it goes on not only on eBay but at the big auction houses as well. If you stick to a price you are comfortable with and look carefully at the seller's feedback that's probably enough protection. I do not like to bid against my Net54 friends. I check items early and often to see who is bidding. Unless it is a high price item and hits $200 off the bat I can generally pick up on who has interest in the item. If it is one of you I might send an email asking just how interested you are. If your interest appears greater than mine I will just hold off. For example I generally will not bid on PCL catchers as I know Patrick needs them more than me. When in doubt I will just shoot him an email. Admitedly the new system makes it more difficult to see what a particular bidder is bidding on. I used to check several bidders from time to time to see what they had picked up on. Can't do that now as once an item hits $200 it will not appear on his bidder page. But you know there are bidders who will never bid on an item prior to putting in a snipe bid at the end. I think we all know who they are. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Ted: Since you know who the winner is you can still contact him/her to see if they will break a lot.

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02-03-2007, 07:14 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanWhat Jim said is correct and the result of the new policy has been a painful one for me when bidding on expensive cards. Luckily, Don Spence uses a sniping service so the pain of losing to him is only apparent to me when there is 5 seconds left in the auction that I had been leading for 1 full second at the time my own snipe went in. However, each set, each issue has a particular group of bidders with their own set of quirks and limits as to how they bid. Many a card has been won by me (or lost) by knowing who is bidding a card up prior to the last frantic seconds. Without this information it feels as if I'm bidding in the dark.

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02-03-2007, 07:16 AM

Posted By: DaveOut of curiosity what is Spence's or Louchios' ebay handles?

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02-03-2007, 07:39 AM

Posted By: Rob DewolfThe point I would make regarding the thought that if you bid only what you feel comfortable paying, then shill bidding isn't a big concern is this: If you feel comfortable paying $400 for an item and place that bid, and the next legitimiate bid is $100 but a shill bid of $300 is placed, even though you might feel comfortable paying $310, that shill bid still has wrongly cost you $200. To me, this new system makes shill bidding so much easier to carry out.

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02-03-2007, 07:40 AM

Posted By: DylanIf you want to contact the high bidder to inquire about a specific card in a lot, thats still possible. once the auction finishes the top bidders ID is shown.

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02-03-2007, 07:48 AM

Posted By: barrysloateNobody seems to like it; however, if you are a bidder who prefers anonymity, it does offer that. But there seems to be more negatives for sure. And I agree with Steve that if someone is intent on shilling, he can do it either way. Nobody knows the ebay handle of every bidder, and just because a stranger bids doesn't mean something bad is going on. I know shilling takes place but I think there is a bit of paranoia about it going on- and I know I will get plenty of detractors, but that is just my feeling. Just place your high bid and forget about it- either you win the lot or you don't. There is nothing more you can do.

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02-03-2007, 08:05 AM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)I think that ebay should at least show the feedback level of the people bidding. In the past I'd shy away from auctions when I saw that all the bidders running up the auction had less than a few feedbacks. Anonymity is great but ebay should at least show the feeback rating of the bidders. If they don't want to show the exact number then at least show the feedback level of the bidder (0-10, 11-100, 101-200, etc). To me, the number of feedbacks of the bidders adds a little more credibility to the auctions.

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02-03-2007, 08:07 AM

Posted By: Jim Clarke I think most of us want to see who beat us out or who was interested in that item. Sometimes the winner of a card wants to sell it to the under-bidder? But those days are over. I think Ebay should allow EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE AUCTION TO SEE ALL THE NAMES. This would encourage bidders and you would still keep the ebay names private to all watchers. I'm sure there would be more early action to get the price up there to discourage other people in coming in. I know this practice happens in auction companies JC

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02-03-2007, 08:25 AM

Posted By: Steve M.go to the Bid History. Look to the right where you will see "view". Move your cursor. Allow it to load. This will give you the infor you are looking for.

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02-03-2007, 08:25 AM

Posted By: Joe D.but now I don't seem to care either way. There were occassions where I would email an N54er and say I was thinking of bidding on an item... but saw them as a bidder - and if they really wanted the item I would back away. Some times I would find out the person really wanted the item and I would back away, other times the other person would say -- no go right ahead and get it yourself..... and once both myself and the other N54er backed away at the same time letting someone else snag a very cool postcard (oops). Anyway, that option is gone now. I'm not sure if that is good or bad. I never really worried too much about shill bidding in the first place, and I don't really want to start worrying about it now. Hopefully eBay is putting in the proper safeguards to combat shills.

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02-03-2007, 08:47 AM

Posted By: AlanCan you imagine if the identities of Mastro (and the others auction houses) bidders were posted with their dollar amounts next to their date & time they bid ????

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02-03-2007, 09:07 AM

Posted By: David SmithAlan, Can you imagine going to a live auction and once the bidding hits a certain level on an item, everyone in the room has to put on blindfolds??? David

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02-03-2007, 09:10 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaAnyone ever been to a live auction where they are taking telephone or live internet bids? I think it would be easy for an auctioneer to spot a bidder with little or no sense (But lots of CENTS) and run them up themselves.

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02-03-2007, 09:29 AM

Posted By: Jim DaleMy conspiracle side suggests this is nothing more then a cost cutting measure. If you can't see who's involved the complaints on shill bidding will decline and they can lay off a few people that actually looked into the complaints. Big win for the cheaters.

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02-03-2007, 09:37 AM

Posted By: BobDave- I sent you an email re your question. tbob

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02-03-2007, 10:46 AM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Steve, Thanks for the information. That's what I was hoping to see. There's a lot of information in that little box.

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02-03-2007, 03:51 PM

Posted By: Bob PomillaCount me with the nays. I too, like to see who I'm bidding against, as all bidders have certain patterns and I can make a more educated bid when I know who's in the mix or whether I should even bid at all, depending on the bidders.

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02-03-2007, 03:55 PM

Posted By: Max WederOnce again, if you're against ebay's move, please email them. Nothing will cause them to change their mind, unless they hear from people. I have written, and will write again. I think this will cost ebay revenue in the long run: shilling I think increases, despite the information in the little box. More importantly for me, I used to track maybe 15 to 20 early bidders, who would bid on items of similar interest. You can no longer find these active auctions even under $200. I can check their closed auctions, and I see what I missed out on it. Max

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02-03-2007, 04:13 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishPersonally, I usually just bid what I am willing to pay. Who I am bidding against really doesn't matter that way. I've never used a snipe service and don't sit there with muliple screens near the end of the auction either. I can understand those who use snipes or the mult-screen view though as I usually hit the refresh button if I am at the computer near an auction's end about 8 times a minute!

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02-03-2007, 04:30 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackI understand both sides. eBay wants to stop people using eBay to make off eBay sales, which is reasonable. However, hiding bidders i.d.s will increasing shilling and other seller shenanigans. While acknowledging that solving one problem inherently conflicts with solving the other, I'm sure eBay didn't flip a coin to decide which problem to tackle. eBay loses money on off eBay sales, and makes money on shilling.

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02-03-2007, 07:24 PM

Posted By: Mike McculloughWhat will happen and is happening is that bidders are being pumped up to there maximum bids. A bidder with 2 ebay ids can put the screws to you and you will never know the difference. One bidder bids you up to find out your max and then pulls a bid retraction. His other ID comes in and bids just below your max. Ebay has forced me to snipe everything over $200.. What a shame.

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02-03-2007, 07:28 PM

Posted By: dan mckeeTed, I posted about this twice, it is pathetic and ebay condones shill bidding now. Some brain dead actually thought they check for shilling automatically, that was the funniest thing I have read in a year.

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02-03-2007, 07:36 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisMIKE This is exactly the problem, as you so aptly described it, as to why I started this Thread. And, are we to believe....as some have posted here....that ebay will be the one who stand to gain the most from this new feature of their's ? Is ebay that diabolical ? TED Z

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02-03-2007, 07:50 PM

Posted By: Mike McculloughThe ole Ebay claim of we are "just a venue" is tiresome. Ebay just lost a class action suit and I believe this new bidding scheme was part there remedy to the suit... Obviously, Ebay didnt think this one through,, Or,, ARe we saying that quite possibly they did??? Interesting indeed. I would vote for the latter.

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02-04-2007, 04:18 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisA few nites ago I won a $410 lot.....which I've had 2nd thoughts about. I didn't want to pay this much for it, but it was a multi-card lot that I am usually a sucker for. The reason I have mixed feelings about it, is that I was Hi bidder for several days at $195 (which I felt was fair these 8 cards). Then, an hour prior to ending, I was outbid; and, I was no-longer "tedzan" bidding, but "Bidder 5". Well, "Bidder 6" must've really "jacked- up" the bidding, because when I finally topped it off with 8 minutes to go, I was Hi bidder at $410. Now, I ask.....if "Bidder 6" was willing to bid $400 because he really wanted these cards, don't you think he would place another bid at $420 to win them ? Or, is this a pretty good example of a "shill bid" ? I do not like this new system and I will tell that to ebay, for whatever it is worth.....But, one lone voice is not going to make any impact. TED Z

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02-04-2007, 04:28 PM

Posted By: Scott SI think it Sucks!

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02-04-2007, 06:41 PM

Posted By: Jim ClarkeAgain, It would make almost everyone feel better, if they have a bid in. Then they can see the entire history during or after the auction close. I do not think spoof people will be placing bids to just spam 10 or so bidders. Biider should see the history of the auction. This will encourage bidders!!!!!! People that spend all the time searching for item will be rewarded as well under the new system. People that use other people's bidding history to look at items will have to work more. The problem is mosty people do not have the time, thus they will miss out on more items... Bottom line... Less people will be selling on Ebay and looking for other avenues.

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02-07-2007, 05:41 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisLast nite I was interested in a T206 CYoung (port)....graded AUTHENTIC for my Sovereign set. And, at $184 with an hour to go, I figured it was a good buy. Then it topped $200, and it got "crazy". Ebay "names" became #s and before you could take a deep breath, the CYoung went for over $400. The consensus of opinion here on this Thread appears to be opposed to this new system that Ebay has forced on us. Perhaps, if Ebay get's enough complaints they might reconsider this. However, as someone posted here, it's to Ebay's benefit. And, so far this appears to be so. As prices realized now for some cards are much more than they were in the recent past for the same. TED Z

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02-07-2007, 05:48 AM

Posted By: JoannI've sent them two complaints, and think they need to get more. My internet is still down (posting this from work ... shhhhh), but as soon as it's back up I'm going to send them another letting them know what I've bought recently from BST instead of ebay. I don't think I will be able to avoid ebay completely, but I'm definitely going to consciously try to use other means as much as possible to acquire cards. It might end up changing my collecting focus a little - non-ebay auctions aren't necessarily a good place to pick up G/VG T206 commons of Detroiters or whatever. Maybe I'll have to buy fewer, but nicer, cards. But I'm going to at least try. And let them know every time I choose something besides ebay. Joann

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02-07-2007, 06:19 AM

Posted By: Steve fJoann, Do you have an email address handy. I'd written last week but no acknowledgement. Hope youre back online soon. tia

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02-07-2007, 06:29 AM

Posted By: Steve M.Not real sure this is going to stop second chance offers. I received one for the e90-1 Keeler though I was the third highest bidder and my name was "Bidder 13". How did the scammer find me I wonder?

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02-07-2007, 06:34 AM

Posted By: Max WederSteve You can send email your comments at this url <a href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/newtoebay/suggest.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://pages.ebay.com/help/newtoebay/suggest.html</a> Max

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02-07-2007, 08:08 AM

Posted By: Max WederSteve M The scammer may have noticed you were high bidder when the auction was under $200. More work for scammers, but given that ebay suggests the new system should inspire more trust, the scammers might catch more people. Max

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02-07-2007, 10:01 AM

Posted By: warshawlawThe winning bidder should be able to see who the underbidders were, same as the seller, to prevent active shilling. No need to share the data with the rest of the world if they want to stop bogus 2nd chance offers.

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02-07-2007, 10:30 AM

Posted By: Steve M.I never bid at the sub 200 level. I'm not real sure that the winning bidder knows who the under bidders are. So, it is still a mystery to me how I got the second chance offer.

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02-07-2007, 10:38 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisIf it's an ebay lot I'm interested in, I've been "bookmarking" the Bid list just prior to the $200 threshold. This might or might not help, depending of course how hi the bidding goes. It's more work, but I have found this practise useful in at least one situation, so far. TED Z

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02-07-2007, 11:11 AM

Posted By: Joe D.Finding you is pretty easy. I am pretty sure the search by bidder (advanced search) is fully functional. So, now the scammers search by the bidder instead of searching by the item.

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02-07-2007, 12:33 PM

Posted By: sagardThe stats they post make it fairly easy to identify when you are likely being shilled. Unfortunately I don't think Ebay will ever respond to a complaint that Bidder 6 on auction 1351352345 is a shill. They will simply bounce an email stating there isn't enough evidence.

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02-07-2007, 01:04 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Maybe that's the real reason ebay did this... they were tired of answering people that claimed bidders were shills so they decided to hide the bidders on large dollar items so they wouldn't have to worry about people informing them of shill bidders... it's the lazy mans way out of doing the investigative work of tracking down shills people reveal.

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02-07-2007, 06:53 PM

Posted By: martin dalziel The Sunday Times did an investigation of Ebay and shill bidding a few weeks back and talked about how rampant the problem is. The main guy they investigated has been banned and hopefully with the exposure that the article has created there will be a lot more activity in scrutinizing Ebay's practices. <a href="http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article1323967.ece" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article1323967.ece</a>

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02-07-2007, 07:12 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCdave- i have dealt many times with Don Loucios & Don Spence, i also know their eBay ID's...BUT i will not reveal that, it is up to them to disclose...they are both very private, and i am sure they would want it to remain that way... Best- MS

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02-09-2007, 09:04 AM

Posted By: Cobby33If you take (or have) the time to click on the bidder information provided by eBay, you can tell, with similar certainty as before, whether a bidder is a shill. Not foolproof, but neither was the system when the ID's were provided.

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02-09-2007, 10:01 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI am not sure what you are saying......but, I'll say for higher priced cards ($500+ value), most "shill" bidding will occur considerably above the "$200 threshold". And, at this point with this new system, it is very difficult to detect. Prior to this new "$200 threshold" that ebay is forcing on us, there were certain measures that one could employ to detect with a high probability that shill bidding was evident. Besides, I like to be able to recognize who is bidding on a lot that I might be interested in. For no other reason than, I don't like contending against friends or Net54 members on a lot. TED Z

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02-09-2007, 10:23 AM

Posted By: Jim DaleWhat I think the previous poster is saying is that the new information provided (which I think only comes up after an auction closes (not much help there)) provides information like how often the bidder deals with seller and more. It can help you to identify a shill; but I have not checked into it during an auction - only saw it after. Still no names - no user names - just some input on bidding history, feedback, number of bids, and connections to the seller on the same. To be honest unless someone wrote a nifty script to search through those daily for shills...few will be found.

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02-12-2007, 11:50 PM

Posted By: RC McKenzieThe prices on ebay seem about the same. It was fun to see who the underbidders were when you won an item, and it was fun to see what other folks on the board were bidding on, but the bottom line is if you want an item, then put yer head down and churn and put in yer best price and see if you win. After seeing the results of the "Ruth Wrapper", there are apparently a lot of folks that I assumed read this board that don't read this board. Best