Player Relatives

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I once sold a T206 Cicotte card to Todd Cicotte -- the great nephew of the former Black Sox star. I have also met a woman in Baltimore whose great grandfather was Kid Elberfeld. I was wondering if anyone reading this board has any connection to the players in the T206 set, or any other pre-war set for that matter. I think it would make for an interesting book -- a collection of interviews of relatives of long-deceased baseball players and what those players still mean to the relatives.

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Posted By: <b>Cy</b><p>Henry Thomas is a man who sets up a table at the Chantilly, VA card show each time. (Next one is July 9-11.) That is where I met him. Henry is the grandson of the Big Train and is a wonderful guy to talk old-time baseball with. He also wrote the book, "Walter Johnson, The Big Train". And he also produced the tapes/CDs from Larry Ritter's "The Glory of Their Times".<BR><BR>I want to promote these CDs. Many of you have the book. If you do not have the CDs, go to amazon.com and buy them ($30 +/- with shipping). This is THE finest baseball item you can get. And I am not going overboard. When you hear Rube Marquard, Sam Crawford, Davy Jones, Smokey Joe Wood, my favorite, Jimmy Austin, and others, it will truly send goosebumps up your spine. I kid you not. Every time I go on a trip, I play these CDs. There is nothing like hearing how it was from the people that were there and in their own voice.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Cy

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>Worthy of a VCBC article at least. As with other posters I'm sure, I've sold memorabilia to a lot of relatives of baseball and football players-- including Harry Hooper and Edd Rousch. I sold an item to a current U.S. Congressman who's grandfather played Pre-War MLB ... Relatives and college alumni are what help keep final bids up.

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Posted By: <b>prewarsports</b><p>Was still alive and selling cards and memorabilia in the mid-1990's at the old Boston Peabody shows, his name was Bob Wood. Every T207 and Turkey Red I own came from him and he said they were originally owned by Smokey Joe Himself. It's not T206, but he was a nice guy to talk too

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>In another shameless plug for Jennifer's art (yet somewhat on topic), she has done a painting for the grand niece of Nap Lajoie (and no, the grandniece doesn't have any memorabilia, and I can't remember how she pronounced his name)<BR><BR><img src="http://www.ettinger.ca/naplajoie.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>There was a guy selling a 4 card lot of Ed Reulbach cards on Ebay about 10 days ago who said he was Reulbach's grandson.

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Posted By: <b>John/z28jd</b><p>From the old judge set ive talked with relatives of Frank Dwyer,Mike Griffin and some player named Larry Corcoran.<BR><BR>Mike Griffins relative is absolutely obsessed with him and can and will tell you everything possible about Mike.

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Posted By: <b>Peter Thomas</b><p>was a cousin or second cousin of my grandfather and the family came to America from Wales. My gradfather died 20 years before I was born so I don't know anything more about the relation. My dad was unaware or the relation until a conversation he and I had with his mother shortly before she died in 1970. I try to pick Ira Thomas items when I can.

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Posted By: <b>FatBoy</b><p>This subject was on the CU board a while back, heres what I posted.<BR><BR>I live about 10 miles from Columbia PA (Jimmy Sheckard's home town). Hes the only notable major leaguer (OK, in more recent years Bruce Sutter...but I'm a vintage collector) from this area (Oh...forgot about Don Wert, the famous Tigers 3rd baseman).<BR><BR>Anyway...about 15 years ago I was at an estate sale in Columbia that included a copy of Cap Anson's "A Ball Players Career" along with a ceremonial pamphlet concerning Lou Gehrig. Inside the front cover of the book towards the top was a signature of Sheckard....needless to say, I bought. I never tried to have the signature verified, but several years later there was an article in the newspaper here about a relative of Sheckard's and his push to have him inducted into the "Hall". Having several of his baseball cards and a genuine interest..I got ahold of his great grand son and invited him over. We spent an enjoyable evening talking baseball and looking at cards of his great grand father. Towards the end of the evening I got the book out and showed him. He verified that the signature was real and we suspect that possibly the book and the pamphlet were his...don't care if they are or they aren't, but its one of those tidbits of joy you just put in the back of your mind and smile about.<BR><BR>I gave him a T206 before he left. Keith<BR>

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Posted By: <b>Sean Coe</b><p>Sold a signed wire photo of Burleigh Grimes to a distant realtive not long ago. He wrote back to tell me that he was having it framed and going to hang it in his office. Very cool.

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Peter,<BR>You may or may not know this, but Ira Thomas was the first person to hit a pinch hit HR in a World Series.

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>A while back, I co-founded a sports historical society for the region of upstate NY I live in. One person who was born and died a few miles from my house was Myron "Moose" Grimshaw who was featured in the T-206 set. I discovered he was burried in an unmarked grave in my local cemetary. While trying to do research on him, I met his grandson, who now lives in Florida and is in his 70's or 80's... We converse often and he is a very nice man, often sending me family photo's of Myron in his Boston uniform as well as other momentos from his playing career and family days! On another note, my home down is also where Bill Dahlen and Bud Fowler were born. There's a street named for Dahlen.

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Carl Hubbell<BR>Konetchy (t206)<BR>Mitchell (t206)<BR>Sullivan (t206)<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I have sold and exchanged emails with a granddaughter of Bob Groom's. Wonderful person, told me some stories about him and how he taught her how to widdell (something like Waddell? ) I can't spell at times. One of the best experience I have had in the hobby.<BR><BR>I also sold a T202 Lajoie to a Duane Lajoie,but he did not respond to my email about whether he was a relative.<BR>

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Posted By: <b>John/z28jd</b><p>Lajoie mustve had a big family because ive talked to another relative of his from Brooklyn named Rob who collects cards of his.Hes a member of OBC<BR><BR>Also,least we forget our old friend Dan Mathewson wherever he is

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I know I've met a few relatives of ex-ball players, but can't think of them right now. Closest I remember is the lady who showed me a beautiful cabinet photo of Kid Nichols in a Kansas City uniform. It was signed on the back with a lovely note to "my dearest Millie". The lasy that showed me the card said her great grandma dated Nichols. Never could get her to sell, which is understandable.<BR><BR>Jay

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Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>Forgot to mention... when I was a little kid, I met Jim Cobb, son of Ty, and a daughter of Babe Ruth - all I remember is her name is very long! As for Jim Cobb, I had him sign a repo of one of his father's cards... thought it would be interesting!

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Quite a timely string--about a week ago I was contacted by the great grandson of heavyweight champ Jim Jeffries inquiring about an item I won at auction. There is a street in my city named after Jeffries, who settled here and ran a local ranch and training facility. <BR><BR>I sold a couple of Rick Ferrell items to a relative of his, a few years ago. <BR><BR>I've also sold cards and related items to a relative of turn of the century heavyweight Tom Sharkey. <BR><BR>Finally, a couple of boxers have fallen out of my family tree. No baseball players yet, but you never know.

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>The Library of Congress had John Weying's N172 mislabeled as his brother Gus' image. After several months of unsuccessful attempts to get them to correct it, I decided I needed reinforcements.<BR><BR>I just started looking in the Louisville, Kentucky (the Weyhings' home town) phone book for surviving relatives. I found a bunch and in the process became friendly with Gus' and John's nephew, Ed. <BR><BR>Ed had fond memories of meeting Gus and had a bunch of things he showed me (like Gus's silver lifetime pass) that I never would have seen otherwise.<BR><BR>Ed's family name <b><u>did</u></b> have some pull with the Library of Congress. He managed to get John's photo properly labeled.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Cowan</b><p>I have spoken with a few family members of players that were in the T212 Obak set. I have seen some family photos with the players etc. Additionally I have spoken to quite a few relatives of players who have appeared in the Zeenuts series as well.<BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>prewarsports</b><p>I met Silver King's great grandson via ebay, he was trying to buy anything he could get. He remembered going to his gandmothers house in the 1950's, and according to her, when she was a child there was a huge oil painting of King in his Browns uniform above his fireplace, as well as some baseball memorabilia from him in a curio cabinet (around 1910). She ran off and eloped with someone Silver disliked, and became less favored in the King family so she got nothing and hence this relative had nothing, but someone must have inherited all that stuff, probably the one who married right.<BR><BR>Another interesting story is that I bought a few items from the estate of Tony Mullane (you guys might remember last year when that Imperial Joseph Hall cabinet came up for sale). Well I got in contact with the guy and managed to secure a few items from his probate estate, but what is interesting is this, they cant find any heirs of his. The guy from the probate office told me they only sold a few things (the photo included) to cover some of his granddaughters debts, and everything else is still sitting in a box and the court will not sell it, they are waiting for an heir. He told me there are tons of correspondances and baseball items including "several" cabinet photos and other items. I wish my last name was Mullane! ANyone know of anyone who claims to be related to him?

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Have you consulted a lawyer in your state to see whether the advice you are getting is correct? In my jurisdiction, the property would escheat to the Crown (that is, the province would sell the stuff and pocket the money) after a certain period if no heirs were found. <BR><BR>Max <BR><BR>

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Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I sold a T222 Fatima card of Slim Sallee to a distant relative of his -- his great grandnephew, or something like that.<BR><BR>Paul

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Posted By: <b>prewarsports</b><p>The guy I bought everything from works for Lake County. I bought the stuff last year, and although I am currently in Law School in Indiana, I do not know the laws of Illinois well enough to have an opinion on this, just that the judge ordered certain items to be sold so some items could be paid. I think they assumed that the items left over had no "monetary value" and were only personal effects. Regardless, it wouldn't be worth hiring an attorney to look into because if it was ordered to be sold then someone that has more money than me would end up with it in a public sale and I would be out the lawyers fees.<BR><BR>I have the guys name that sold me the items and works with the judge if anyone else wants to persue it.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I once spoke with the niece of Fred Merkle. I don't recall the context, or if any business was transacted. She did say he was haunted his entire life by the his baserunning gaff, and to his death he was never fully able to come to terms with it. It was kind of sad to hear her tell that story.

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Posted By: <b>Gil Maines</b><p>Hi all,<BR><BR>I currently have three of five poses for Willard Mains (aka. Maines). Any leads which you can offer for getting more will be appreciated.<BR><BR>Thank you,<BR>G. Maines<BR>identify7@aol.com

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>I have a lot of vintage football photos, and put one of old-time Chicago Cardinal running back Marshall Goldman in auction. It was from shot before 'Marshall Goldman Day' in Chicago and and showed Goldman in full cowboy suit (chaps, hat, cowboy boots, etc). He held a football in one hand and a pistol in the other ... After the auction the photo's winner said he was Marshall's grandson. He said Marshall himself, then in his late 80s, saw the photo in auction and said he'd never seen it before. So his grandson bought the photo for Marshall.

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Posted By: <b>walter ruether III</b><p>Hello Im the grandson of Former MLB veteran pitcher Dutch ruether, My grandfather pitched on 4 pennant winning teams, He beat eddie cicotte in the first game of the 1919 world series, in fact He's the only pitcher to hit two triples in a world sereis game, you wont really see that in the books cause that was the infamous Black sox sereis. He also pitched for the Brooklyn dodgers & set the record for the longest national league opener in 1923 Dutch went the whole 14 innings as the game was called a 5-5 tie due to darkness. Dutch also pitched for the 1925 washington senators before being traded to the yankees where he finished his career going 13-6 for the infamous 1927 yanks. Dutch went on to play in the coast league untill 1933, then he managed for awhile before finishing his baseball career as a scout for the Giants in 1970. Id love to help you with your book, just email me anytime.

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Posted By: <b>Robershaw</b><p>I am the great great grandson of Silver King and would be curious to know who the great grandson is that is mentioned in this post who had been to Silver King's house. My grandmother Doris (the granddaughter of Silver King) was the one who eloped (by the way, she is still alive today) and it is true that she was disowned by the family for marrying my grandfather because he was a common man, not well-to-do as was preferred. Ah, but if they only knew.....my grandfather was a perfect gentleman and they lived happily ever after until he died a few years ago.<br /><br />Anyway, my grandmother was raised by Silver King for a time and she lived in the house where the oil painting and other memorabilia were. She said the oil painting was fabulous and it's the one thing in life that she wished she could have taken with her when she left the house. However, she left and never looked back, determined to make it on her own. <br /><br />My grandmother tells me that Silver King was a gentleman and used to play ball with the kids in the neighborhood even though he was 50+ years old. But, he didn't like to talk about his professional career too much. I guess he was really disgusted with some of the happenings in baseball in the late 1800's so he walked away and never went back. I have seen several write ups of Silver King years after he left baseball. <br /><br />I am just starting to research all of the history of baseball in the 1880's and find it fascinating. My ties to Silver King have got me started on an adventure and now I find myself hooked on learning this pre-1900 baseball stuff. I am in the process of creating a website for Silver King and I am hoping to fill the website with stories and pictures from the era including teammates, etc. If you have any photos to email or anything to contribute I would appreciate hearing everything related. <br /><br />Silver King played in 1886 for the Kansas City Cowboys; 1887-1889 with the St. Louis Browns which included two World Series; 1890-1891 with Pittsburgh Pirates, 1892-1893(partial season) with the New York Giants; 1893 (partial season) with the Cincinnati Reds; 1894-1895 retired; 1896-1897 with the Washington Senators. <br /><br />I know that there is a lot of history, changing of leagues, teams moving, players moving, etc. If you want to share your knowledge it would be great. Look forward to hearing from you. <br /><br />Most people have seen the N172 and N173 cards of Silver King. I know that Silver King was part of the E. R. Williams game set but I haven’t seen the card yet. I have a copy of a Silver King Cabinet Card but he is wearing a suit and tie, not a uniform. It is the only picture I have seen so far of him without a baseball hat and it shows his blond hair which lead to the name Silver King. I wanted have it graded but all for corners are cut and it is trimmed on the bottom so it got rejected. Wondering if anybody knows of any other Silver King cabinet cards or similar cards or memorabilia that is out there? I would love to purchase some things but I wouldn’t mind just getting email photos so that I can start categorizing them. Again, my goal is to start my own card collection and then create a website using Silver King as the headline but to expand to who knows what…<br><br>robert shaw

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Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>It's not pre-war, buy I once sold a 1953 Bowman Larry Miggins on eBay, and when the check came, it was from another Larry Miggins, his grandson ...

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Posted By: <b>Troy Kirk</b><p>I know the great grandson of Doc Bushong, who was a member of the St. Louis Browns championship teams in the 1880s. His name is Steve Bushong, and he actively collects the cards of Doc Bushong and has a website where he displays them. With last year's St. Louis-Detroit World Series, he was interviewed on local St. Louis TV about the 1887 St. Louis-Detroit World Series, in which Doc participated. He tells me that after the Browns won the World Series in 1886, Brown's owner Chris Von Der Ahe named a bunch of towns after the Browns players. There is still a town named Bushong.<br /><br />I've also heard from a bunch of relatives of movie stars that wanted to buy their old movie star cards. Robert Montgomery, Anita Page, and Spencer Tracy come to mind, as well as a lot of lesser-known stars.

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Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/uffda51/StandardBisJoeWoodauto.JPG"><br /><br />I obtained this from Smoky Joe Wood's son Bob, along with other items and photos, plus great conversation.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>When I used to more regularly sports photographs, relatives were regular buyers. My favorite was when I was selling a great photo of 1940s Chicago Bears All-Pro running back Marshall Goldberg. The photo showed Marshall dressed up in a cowboy suit for Marshall Goldberg Day in Chicago, six shooter in one hand and The Duke football in the other. The 80s year old Marshall himself saw the auction and told his grandson that he'd never see the photo before. His grandson won the photo and gave it to Marshall. <br /><br />Another not-so-famous-person sale was when I sold a 1950s Minnesota Gophers team photo with Wes Felser holding a big trophy. The winner told me he won the auction because elderly equipment manager in the lower left was his grandfather.

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Walter,<br />That is very cool. Thanks for your contribution.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...Walter appreciates the sentiment, but he made that post 2 years ago. This is an old post brought up by a new relative of a player.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Baxter</b><p>I was contacted a year or two ago by a descendant of Tim Murnane regarding a Spalding booklet authored by Murnane that I had already sold. <br /><br />A descendant of Jesse Haines (I believe his great granddaughter) either bid on won a 1933 Goudey of Haines that I was selling on Ebay a while back.<br /><br />Right now I'm working on some research for a possible book on Dickey Pearce. Once I get through the file at the local library (Pearce retired to and was laid to rest here in Onset, MA) I plan on contacting the three people in town who share the same last name, in the hope that one is a descendant.<br /><br />I've also been doing genaeology research on my mother's family for several years now and had hoped to find a connection between her family (Egan) and Richard Egan who played for Cinncinatti and appeared in the T206 set, But no luck so far.

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Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>I know the granddaughter of Clyde Milan. He played with Walter Johnson and was his best friend. She has several letters from ball players to Clyde. She has a wonderful one from Johnson about the death of his wife. She said Johnson used to let up with a big lead or players he liked. Milan would yell at him from centerfield to get tough. He never let up on Cobb.

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Posted By: <b>daryle</b><p>I have sold cards to Benny Tate's cousin (1936 WWG) and to John Stone's Nephew (1934 Goudey). Also met a guy and his young son at an Atlanta show who asked me if I had anything of Candy Cummings. They claimed to be relatives of his. They said that his family had some photos of Candy during baseball career and later in life. I begged them to sell me one of each but they wouldn't give in. Kinda wonder if there was any truth to it.......who knows????????????

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Posted By: <b>Jim</b><p>Although not baseball related, my grandfather Frank Reynolds was a semi-professional motorcycle racer in the 20's or 30's, I think. My father told me that at one time he held the world land speed record on a motorcycle in Bermuda. As a child, I remember seeing a few tattered posters in a suitcase that at one time hung on fences advertising motorcycle races with his name. The posters sadly were lost in time. I'd kill for just one of those posters now to frame.

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Posted By: <b>D Brown</b><p>I'll use this suddenly "new" thread to ask for help. My maternal great grandfather played in the MINK league in Nebraska, and then in Iowa (not sure if that was in the MINK or not) in the teens. If anyone has material about the MINK from the era, I'd love to hear about it -- g-g-father was Ledger Free, played for the Auburn (Nebraska) Athletics in 1910-1913, then, I've heard, moved on to play in Waterloo, Iowa. (Not the Lulus by then, not sure of the team name.) If anyone knows of deep midwest minor league resources, or might have postcards, programs, or etc. related to baseball in these towns, please let me now. (There is the phenomenal Nebraska Minor League Baseball site: <a href="http://marian.creighton.edu/~besser/baseball/second.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://marian.creighton.edu/~besser/baseball/second.html</a>)<br /><br />Family legend has it that L.D. (as he was known) got as far as a tryout for the Pirates, maybe in the mid or late teens, but had the flu and did not make the team. That's the story.<br /><br />thanks<br />David<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>I have the book Elden Auker wrote- Sleeper cars and Flannel Uniforms and his great nephew signed the book- it was great book! nice to understand what 1933-1942 era was like. I started collecting Aukers card 1939 Playball, 1941 playball. Anyone else know what else out there on Auker?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>David, that website is owned by Bruce Esser who has a phenomenal knowledge of baseball in Nebraska. His email address is on the site and you should email him to see if he knows anything about your grandfather. I have a pretty good knowledge of Nebraska minor league baseball and I have not heard the name before.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Topsy Hartsel was my Grandmother's Uncle. I got started on the family tree and my Topsy<br />collecting went nuts from there. My Aunt gave me his autograph she got before he died.<br />Now I collect all variations of his cards and other items.

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Posted By: <b>ErikV.</b><p> I'm the webmaster for the website 1919BlackSox.com. Over the past few years I've received a number of e-mails from family memebers of both the Reds and White Sox. The Reds relatives include Slim Sallee, Dutch Ruether, Edd Rousch, Bill Rariden and Sherry Magee. <br /><br /> I've also received e-mails from family members of the Cicotte's and McMullin's. Although I always find it an honor to correspond with them, I always felt a little akward as if I'm casting a shadow on their respective relatives.<br /><br /> I should also mention (and graciously thank) the relatives of Slim Sallee and Grover Lowdermilk for the photo and nice autographed postcard I received from them! <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>D Brown</b><p>Dan, Bruce Esser was indeed helpful with the family research, and filled me in on the demise of the MINK league in 1913 (1914?). My greatgrandfather's team had kept playing longer than most of the rest of the league, so when it collapsed there weren't positions around to take up. Esser filled in a missing link, the move to Waterloo IA after Auburn. I dream of a RPPC of either team, they must have existed. thanks for the suggestion.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I will keep my eyes out for a RPPC as I do a search for Nebraska baseball items on ebay every day. If I ever run across one I will let you know.

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Posted By: <b>Joe K.</b><p>Matty's Great Great Grandson lives in the same town as me in NJ, and lives a few blocks away. His son Daniel Mathewson(Matty's Great Great Great Grandson)is in the same 3rd grade class as my Daughter, Emily. Last month Daniel did a show-and-tell about Matty. Emily came home and told me that her friend is related to some old baseball player named Christy somethingorother...I was like, say what???<br /><br />... Time for a play date at the Mathewson house!

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>I believe Tommy Thevenow's descendant collects his cards, especially his 1933 Goudey card. As a result, the price is sky-high.