T206 Experts....Any info on how the T206's were distributed

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>I'm wondering if any of the T206 experts here have any knowledge or know of anything that states how the different T206's were distributed? My thought is unlike today I would have guessed back in 1910 that cigarettes were largely sold by region. Not like today where you'd find Marlboro's anywhere...Any knowledge as to this? Were Old Mill's found mainly in the Southern U.S.? Were Drum's found only in certain states? etc? Any thoughts on this would be great...

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Posted By: <b>Jim</b><p>Not sure about distribution but I live in Richmond, home of the T206 and I've seen exactly 5 since moving here in 1997 and they were all in an antique store back in 1998.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>You've seen what Jim? 5 T206's?<br /><br />I'm assuming with the common numbers of Piedmont and Sweet Caporal that they were the Marlboro and Winston...and I would think that those two were distributed all over the U.S....but as far as the other brands..not sure. Just curious if someone in Montana even had a chance of pulling a Tinker with a Lenox back (if there is one, I didnt check)....or if he had just Piedmonts and Sweet Caporals to choose from.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Look at the Factory # and the District on the backs of these cards and you can get an idea<br />where these cards were distributed.<br /><br />Factory 25 (Virginia) is one of the most common ones that is found on Piedmont, Sweet Cap.,<br /> Sovereign, Old Mill, Broad Leaf, etc. brands.<br /><br />Sweet Cap/Factory 30 is in New York....Polar Bear (chewing tob.) is in Ohio.... Piedmont 460,<br /> Factory 42 is in North Carolina.<br /><br />I once acquired a large collection which comprised of only Piedmont cards and it was originally<br /> from a town on the border of Viginia and North Carolina.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Ted...but the factory number just indicate the state produced correct? I'm assuming the ones with NC factories were used and distributed all over the southeastern U.S...and the same with the ones from NY. Perhaps the NY factories were the cigarettes sent out west? I'm assuming with the rarity of Drums, Broadleafs and such...that they were very small market cigarette companies...perhaps just available in one or two states? <br /><br />Just my crazy idiotic mind at work...

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>My understanding is that all the T206 cards were printed in NYC and then sent to the various Tobacco Co.<br /> to be inserted in their respective cigarette packs as premiums.<br /><br />Yes, Factory #25 out of Virginia (Am Tob. Co.) distributed to a wider area in the Southeast. I have heard<br /> of Piedmont collections originating from the Carolina's and Georgia, circa 1909-1910.<br /><br />Factory #42 (NC), which was the Liggett & Meyers Tob. Co., also distributed their packs (with BB cards)<br />throughout the Southeast, circa 1911.<br /><br />For more detailed information on this, you have to read Scot Reader's excellent book "Inside T206".<br />It's available online.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Jim</b><p>Dave - I'm saying that if T206's were distributed in and around Richmond as the factory numbers indicate, I would expect to see a higher concentration showing up in garage sales, antique stores, estate sales etc. Thus far, I have not. Maybe that thought process is skewed or perhaps I'm not explaining myself correctly.

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Posted By: <b>Judson Hamlin</b><p>When I started at U of R in 1986, I had the same thought- that I would find t cards around and about. Ernie White had the biggest card store in the area,just north of the Amtrak station, but even he didn't get a whole lot, and many of them were dogs. I think they got cleared out by dealers long ago. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>My two large finds of T206's....one 400+ cards and a 2nd, 220 cards that I have acquired<br />this past year were from one seller who was in Florida.....and, the other seller who was in<br />Pennsylvania. However, when I inquired further, the 400+ T206 collection was his grandfather's<br />who collected the cards growing up in the southern part of Virginia. And, the 2nd collection<br />was originally from South Carolina.<br /><br />The point I am making is that you cannot expect these 100 year old collections to stay in<br /> their original regions after they have been passed thru several generations in a family.<br /><br />TED Z

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Ted has told you correctly, and you need to download and print Scott's work.<br /><br />I think that back in the 70s, and before, regional cards were still found regionally. But not so afterward.<br /><br />Before WW II, folks didn't move much. Nowadays folks move every 2 years, on average. WW II railroaded folks all over the US... and folks were more likely to marry someone 'away' from home. Before WW II cards hardly moved geographically at all.<br /><br />By the 70s, folks moved around... many of the 'original' collectors of T206 had passed away, moving the cards into the hands of a later generation. So cards were moving because of that. <br /><br />Plus, the old cards were moving because of heightened collector interest. Collectors would advertise, seeking cards. They would shop around.<br /><br />The modern 'homogenizer' is eBay... Today, we mail cards all over creation. I have about 100 ZeeNuts, I guarantee you they weren't in candy sold back here in Kentucky. <br /><br />While I think it is possible to find a small group of regional cards in some backwoods antique mall... it is no longer likely. Folks get on the internet and try to figure out what they have. Yet I still fantasize about driving back roads down to New Orleans, stopping in Louisiana at a small antique store, and finding a box that has a few dozen Kotton cards, and a couple of dozen "undiscovered" T206s, southern league players with Hindu backs... maybe 4 or 5 Jackson, New Orleans... I could keep one, sell two, and trade two. Might only trade one, and give the other to Ted Z.

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>"Old Cardboard" issue #3 (Spring 2005) has a good story <br /><br />"T206 Brands: The 16 Backs and How They Were Packed" (by Jon Canfield)<br /><br />Article is 7 pages, tons of good info, with many color photos of the cigarette packs.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Maybe I"m confusing everybody..I'm not trying to say someone is going to still find certain cards from the original area they were sold. I was just looking for information, if any exists as to where each cigarette company that included T206's at the time...had cigarette sales. My point was if Broadleaf cigarettes were only sold in the eastern US, than in 1910 a fellow in Spokane Washington had no chance of obtaining a T206 with a Broadleaf back because they didnt exist there...My curiousity only lied in how far of a sales range each cigarette company had in the U.S. from 1909-11

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Well the Spokane dude could visit back east, the eastern folks could visit out west, someone could mail him the card, he could have lived back east then moved out west... but generally the guy in the east had a better shot at Broadleaf cards, and the guy in Washington state had a better chance of getting Obaks. <br /><br />But as time goes by the cards move around, more and more.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>so is it your opinion that T206's with piedmont backs may well have been sold in the entire U.S.....while say American Beauty backs and I"m just throwing some states out here..could very well have only been sold in Indiana and Illinois? Likewise with T206 Southern Leaguers....only sold in the south?

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Posted By: <b>Judson Hamlin</b><p>I'm not sure the ATC gave a great deal of thought to what particular card got into a pack of cigs. If a Piedmont pack went to a store in Binghamton, NY, I can't imagine that there was any attempt not to put a Violat in there as opposed to a non-SL card, or, for that matter a non-sports card. And while Old Mill appears to have been more aggressively marketed to the southern states, if you walked into a store in Chester, PA, and they had a pack, it was probably even money as to what you would find. As I think about it, though, it might make sense that the T210's were shipped, en masse, to the south, while all white borders went north and west, SL's included. Any thoughts?

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>Speaking of WW2 sometimes i wonder how the hobby would be different if the world wars never happened. All the sets that werent produced, all the supply drives cause of war. Makes you wonder...

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Makes me wonder about the few Cobb's out there that had the Cobb ad on the back. I would guess it was a short run of Ty Cobb cigarettes actually produced. And I would assume it would have mainly been available to buy them either in Detroit where he played or in Georgia where he was from? I do wish there were a way of finding out through the Tobacco association years cigarette brands were active and where each brand was marketed..but I guess that is a dead end road.