Three Presidents Coming to Dinner on Thursday [Archive]

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01-24-2007, 03:34 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellOur attendee list for our New York dinner just keeps getting more distinguished all the time. With the unexpected but welcome news that Bill Allen, president of Mastronet will be joining our esteemed group on Thursday, we now have three presidents at our Thursday dinnerr--the others being Dave Forman of SGC and our own Al Crisafulli--president or at least chief moderator of Lets Talk Sportscards. Best news yet--anyone and everyone is welcome to come--but you must let me know to get the secret password at jdc122@aol.com. Jim

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01-24-2007, 03:37 PM

Posted By: Scott B.President of Mastronet is Bill Allen???? Not Doug Allen???

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01-24-2007, 03:38 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI don't have the secret password- but I will be there and I do hope everyone will join us, despite the ten degree temperature expected Thursday night. Think of it as invigorating! I missed that too- it's Doug!

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01-24-2007, 04:22 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellWhoops I am combining Doug Allen and Bill Mastro's names. Obviously its Doug. Jim

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01-24-2007, 04:27 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback"Hail to the chief moderator" I'm not a president but I own a Dead Kennedys album. Does that count?

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01-24-2007, 05:04 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishI am impressed at the punk rock attitude on this list. First Black Flag, now DK's........

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01-24-2007, 05:04 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThey were supposed to be a pretty good punk band, but I never heard them. I think they used to play at CBGB's.

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01-24-2007, 05:06 PM

Posted By: fkwDK, right on David......Your one notch cooler in my book! DK's singer Jello Biafra was almost SF's Mayor in'79 (coming in 4th in a field of 10 behind Feinstein)

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01-24-2007, 05:12 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThat was a year after Moscone and Harvey Milk were assassinated.

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01-24-2007, 05:18 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishNow we gotta talk BR and Social D!

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01-24-2007, 05:21 PM

Posted By: bruce dorskindThree of the key discussion points on Thursday evening have to address What are our objectives? Whose hobby is it anyway? Or more accurately is this still a hobby? Whilst there are a cadre of bothersome issues such as grading disparities, changes in E Bay's policies. and a lack of transparency in the auction and sales process, we suspect that there are, at most only a few thousand collectors who really are both aware of these issues and care about them. The Summit must place some definitition to the hobby (i.e. is someone who collects every Old Judge as much a hobbyist as someone who spends $100 a year on his annual visit to the card show? If the Presidents "and their men" want to discuss standards, it is imperative that their target audience is precisely delineated It is also important that any ideas regarding regulations has an enforceable enforcement component. This, in our opinion, will be rather difficult to achieve. It might make sense Jim to ask each of the attendees to bring along an agenda and an outline and prepare a 3 minute formal discussion. In that way you can keep the discussion focused. We will certain look forward to watching what actionable steps are taken as a result of this gathering. Lots of good luck! Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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01-24-2007, 05:22 PM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffJello was born and raised right here in Boulder, CO. Vote Biafra/Rollins in 2008! -Ryan

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01-24-2007, 05:27 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliWell, ummm... I ran a punk label for 8 years, I've met Jello, Rollins, and my personal favorite Joey Ramone (although one of them is dead and the other two wouldn't know me if they tripped over me), and I was personally devastated when CB's finally closed, but there is certainly NOTHING about me that I would call "distinguished." Thanks, though. Can I still come? -Al

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01-24-2007, 05:28 PM

Posted By: John SDon't forget Husker Du.

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01-24-2007, 05:30 PM

Posted By: Max Weder[not meaning to continue with the hi-jack thread, but ...} Very cool, Al, about the record label. In the music world, did you ever run into Bill Nowlin, president of Rounders Record, who is a huge Ted Williams collector and has written several books on the Williams and the Red Sox? Max

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01-24-2007, 05:38 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliNever met him, no. I wasn't particularly special then, either. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> But I do love Husker Du. -Al

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01-24-2007, 05:39 PM

Posted By: barrysloateBeing a hippie from the 60's, I missed out on the punk scene. But if you have any questions about Buffalo Springfield, Country Joe and the Fish, or the Yardbirds, I'm your man.

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01-24-2007, 05:48 PM

Posted By: BobThe Yardbirds are the most underrated rock band of all time. Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton....I can't believe no one has ever made a real documentary about this group.

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01-24-2007, 05:52 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThe late Keith Relf on vocals, Paul Samwell-Smith on bass, and Jim McCarty on drums. And they became Led Zeppelin-making it more imperative that their music never dies! What does all this have to do with Jim C's meeting? I think we digress.

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01-24-2007, 05:58 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCjim- just to confirm michael sarno & dar schuster will be there... secret password?

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01-24-2007, 06:04 PM

Posted By: AlanJim/Barry - Why don't you bring in a band to play for entertainment after dinner ? Why not ? Bring in the Yardbirds !!!

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01-24-2007, 06:09 PM

Posted By: Chris CountsBuffalo Springfield ... now we're talking! Those guys were the best ever, in my humble opinion ... I went to a Black Flag concert back in about '79 and I almost got beat up for looking too straight ...

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01-24-2007, 06:18 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblittof the hobby there, we feel confident things will move forward. We believe the password will be olly olly oxen free or 'the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog'. Hopefully there will be a conference call number with which we can join in the fray. Please send instructions on how to get the password (secret or otherwise) for the conference call.

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01-24-2007, 06:19 PM

Posted By: ScottIngold"Whilst" Where else can we see this used on a daily basis ? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-24-2007, 06:25 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellTom, Not funny--and I left how to get the password. Jim

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01-24-2007, 06:26 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellMike, I got both of you guys-thanks.

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01-24-2007, 06:38 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblittwill email you.....laugh ocassionally.....it'll prolong your life........

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01-24-2007, 06:45 PM

Posted By: James FeaginOn the British punk scene a X-Ray Spex, Buzzcocks, Damned, Fall, old Siouxsie and the Banshees guy..... On the American bent I loved the Avengers, pre-Rollins Black Flag, Husker Du bands.... Then there is my favorite Revelation NYC sXe scene with Gorilla Biscuits, Youth of Today, and Side by Side leading the way.. Good memories.... James

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01-24-2007, 06:49 PM

Posted By: barrysloateYes Chris- Buffalo Springfield was as good as music got. Their album "Buffalo Springfield Again" was one of the highlights of 60's rock.

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01-24-2007, 06:57 PM

Posted By: Dan KotelesIdaho ?....then you punkers can say "my own private Idaho"! "Captain Beyond" is a much better group then all mentioned. Good luck !

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01-24-2007, 06:59 PM

Posted By: JoannGee willikers. I hope that the group includes the guy spending $100 at the National when they define whose hobby it is. Oh - and also includes the various groups on the UES of NYC. You know - everyone. Hobby. Collecting. Pretty simple to me. Sincerely, The left elbow of the hobby, rotting in my little shack.

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01-24-2007, 07:07 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThe greatest punk rock band of all time.....I saw them when I was 16 years old...sometime in the 1980s. Jodie Foster's Army. JFA <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k1sS0NfPd7Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k1sS0NfPd7Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> And just for Barry <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nQNTQauBJHA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nQNTQauBJHA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

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01-24-2007, 07:10 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCgetting way off topic guys... looking forward to thursday... should hopefully get some great dialogue going with all of the heavyweights there. MS

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01-24-2007, 07:26 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishOK-Jodie Foster's Army clip is definitely old school......

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01-24-2007, 07:41 PM

Posted By: jay behrensYou guys are forgetting some classic punk bands like Television, Bad Brains, MC5, The Minutemen and countless others I am forgetting. Watch the documentry Punk:Attitude. It's the only show I've ever seen that actually captures what punk was really about in the 70s and 80s. Jay I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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01-24-2007, 07:47 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaTelevision was a great band....Richard Hell wrote some great songs for Matthew Sweet (another of my favorites).

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01-24-2007, 07:54 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellTom, I laugh all the time but not when I am insulted--no unsolicited advice either--I don't appreciate it. Jim

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01-24-2007, 07:56 PM

Posted By: JimBYou all are really forgetting the greatest punk bands: X, and the Germs. L.A.'s punk scene was the best! JimB

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01-24-2007, 08:11 PM

Posted By: fkwMy fav.....Wire, Buzzcocks, DK, Jam, Undertones, Fall, Killing Joke, Soft Boys, Sonic Youth, Butthole Surfers, X, Stranglers, Gang of 4, Joy Division. Saw many of them in the early/mid 80's here in SF (Chi Chi Club, I-Beam, Old Waldorf, etc.) and across the bay in Berkeley (Berkeley Square). PS blame David, he started it <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-24-2007, 08:17 PM

Posted By: BobSigh...I forgot how old I am there for a minute seeing Steven Stills and Neil Young back in the day. Thanks for the clip.

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01-24-2007, 08:17 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaSonic Youth...another favorite of mine. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2T4BsnXmJaI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2T4BsnXmJaI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> I loved Husker Du and thought that Bob Mould had some great stuff with Sugar (File Under Easy Listening is one of the great albums of the 90s)...I listened to just about anything that you couldn't find on mainstream radio in my younger days...now I tend to listen to talk radio only because the student radio station at the U of Nebraska plays hip hop and other stuff I don't listen to. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-24-2007, 08:19 PM

Posted By: RhysDid someone mention a meeting in Idaho? Sweet. I'll see if the Smurf Turf at Boise State can be rented out. It might not be that private though. I cant believe you guys are talking best old school punk bands and not a single person has mentioned Bad Religion or NoFx (1980's old, the 70's were before my time). If anyone wants to check out the best punk band of the 1990's, you have to get some Strung Out CD's. Their second album, Suburban Teenage Wastleland Blues, is amazing. After the NY meeting, let me know when the hobby has been saved from certain destruction. Rhys

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01-24-2007, 08:23 PM

Posted By: Ricky YTwo favorite topics morphed into one...baseball card hobby and punk rock... wow I saw Jello at the old Mabuhay Gardens in SF ... I think I'll slam dance and go flip some cards now... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Ricky

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01-24-2007, 08:23 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThere's a whole lot more punkers here than I would have guessed.

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01-24-2007, 08:42 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBob Mould's solo stuff beats Sugar hands down in my opinion.

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01-24-2007, 08:57 PM

Posted By: DJDJ's Top Fifteen Punk List (Proto-punk, new wave, secondary, post punk...) 1) The Ramones 2) Black Flag 3) Dead Kennedys 4) Television 5) The Clash 6) X 7) The Stooges 8) MC5 9) The Pixies 10) Husker Du 11) Sex Pistols 12) Minor Threat 13) Plasmatics 14) Joy Division 15) The Damned DJ

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01-24-2007, 09:05 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaJeff, are you related to Alan Lichtman the presidential historian I see on MSNBC all the time? As for Mould's solo stuff I think it's on par with Sugar, but F.U.E.L is one of my top 10 albums of all time.

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01-24-2007, 09:06 PM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffFear Crass Subhumans Rudimentary Peni The Cramps D.O.A. The Plasmatics Just wanted to take advantage of the only opportunity I'll ever have to mention those bands on this board. -Ryan

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01-24-2007, 09:08 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI still have Bad Music for Bad People by the Cramps on vinyl.

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01-24-2007, 11:08 PM

Posted By: BcDby Country Joe MacDonald Barry? or maybe: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DspcTcVslsI" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DspcTcVslsI</a> BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-25-2007, 02:12 AM

Posted By: John SThey may been mentioned already but listening to them was about as anti-social as an 8th grader could get...the Dead Milkmen and the Meatmen. Can't believe I forgot the Butthole Surfers, they sold out a little at the end.

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01-25-2007, 04:29 AM

Posted By: barrysloateDan Bretta- you are my hero! Thank you so much for that clip- my wife and I just watched it and we were in awe. What memories come flooding back from 40 years ago! (I wish I knew how to use youtube- I'm a computer idiot). And BcD- what a wonderful song that is- it was a theme from the film "Monterey Pop", the best movie to ever document the music and spirit of the 60's. But there are no pictures of Scott MacKenzie in it, and I think that is the first time I saw him. What a treat to wake up to those two great songs! Thanks guys.

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01-25-2007, 04:39 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDan, no relation to Alan. As for the Cramps -- I have that album on cassette! And how can anyone put the Clash on a list and not put them first?????

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01-25-2007, 05:06 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliI'll put The Clash on my list, but not ahead of The Ramones: Off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing somebody important: 1) The Ramones 2) The Clash 3) Sex Pistols 4) Black Flag 5) Dead Kennedys 6) Sonic Youth 7) Husker Du 8) Bad Brains 9) Patty Smith 10) The Damned 11) Buzzcocks 12) Soft Boys 13) Replacements (nothing after 1987) 14) Plasmatics 15) The Misfits 16) Television 17) X 18) MC5 19) The Stooges 20) The Circle Jerks With a nod and a wave to the Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls and The Who. After the meeting can we all go to CBs and protest? -Al

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01-25-2007, 05:06 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI agree- the Clash is one of the most important bands in rock history. RIP Joe Strummer.

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01-25-2007, 05:18 AM

Posted By: BruceSorry to keep this off topic, but its good to see some old punkers like myself. I agree that the Clash is #1. Fortunately, I was able to see them a few times before Mick Jones left. Best shows I ever saw. Though here in DC in the early 80's we were admittedly a bit snobby about our local bands like Minor Threat, Scream, Bad Brains etc..

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01-25-2007, 05:37 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliCome on, guys. How can you put The Clash in front of The Ramones? That's like putting Willie Mays ahead of Babe Ruth! Mays was great, great, great, but the Babe changed the whole game! -Al

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01-25-2007, 05:44 AM

Posted By: barrysloateAl- let's analyze: Ramones 1) I Want to be Sedated 2) Rock n Roll High School The Clash 1) London Calling 2) Rock the Casbah Four great songs...edge goes to the Clash. Besides, not much longevity in the Ramones- they are just about all dead. Didn't they take their vitamins and eat their green vegetables?

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01-25-2007, 06:01 AM

Posted By: Bruce MacPhersonBarry, no offense, but IMO you probably picked two of the worst Ramones songs they recorded. Al, the Ramones are in the top two, but I would liken it to Cobb/Ruth. Cobb amazed everyone with his style of play, until Ruth came along with a different, more powerful style. BTW, Johnny Ramone used to hang out in the audience before shows. He was a very nice guy to talk to. I dont think you could say that about any Clash members.

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01-25-2007, 06:07 AM

Posted By: judson hamlinBarry- One summer when we were at Wildwood Crest, the Ramones were at Art Stock's Playpen and ate at the same place we did. There were no vegetables harmed in the dinner that I saw. And yes, the Clash wins the head to head. Plus they get bonus points for Joe Strummer & the Mescaleros (I miss Wetlands) and Mick Jones' work with Big Audio Dynamite.

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01-25-2007, 06:09 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI don't know too many other of their songs, but "sedated" is great- which ones do you like better? (ever see the Ramones appearance on an episode of "The Simpsons" singing Happy Birthday to Mr. Burns- it was a riot).

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01-25-2007, 06:12 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliHi Barry: First of all, punk rock guys are SUPPOSED to be dead. One, two albums, that's it. This is not Crosby, Stills and Nash, making crappier and crappier albums until they're in their 80s. This is PUNK ROCK, man! These guys are supposed to make one, two records, and then have some cataclysmic event that causes them to stop making records. And most of the dead guys died BECAUSE they took their "vitamins". And what could be more punk than that? I give big props to The Clash. Love 'em. But The Ramones made it all possible. Plus, Joey Ramone was uglier than all the guys in The Clash combined. -Al

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01-25-2007, 06:12 AM

Posted By: AlanFrom a music encyopedia: "From their earliest days as a band, the Clash stood apart from their punk peers with their musicianship, as well as their lyrics; the passionate, left wing political idealism in the lyrics of frontmen Joe Strummer and Mick Jones contrasted with the anarchic nihilism of the Sex Pistols and the basic simplicity of the Ramones. Although they were a major success in the UK from the release of their first album in 1977, they did not become popular in the US until 1980." I'm definately going to see some live music while I am in Cleveland at the National. Maybe even some punk rock.

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01-25-2007, 06:16 AM

Posted By: judson hamlinThere are some great clips (musically) of the Clash at the Capitol Theatre in Passaic in 1980- The video isn't 1st rate, but just listen. Search "Clash Capitol"

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01-25-2007, 06:20 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliBoy, I forgot all about the Capitol Theater. -Al

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01-25-2007, 06:22 AM

Posted By: barrysloateAl- I know, punkers should die young. Live fast, play hard. And I know the "vitamins" they took. And CSN&Y, as well as the Stones, should pack it in. Enough is enough. I'd rather remember them when they were young. That is one advantage Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin had. We only knew them in their prime. And the Ramones were trailblazers, no doubt about it.

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01-25-2007, 06:26 AM

Posted By: judson hamlinwas a great venue. Oddest concert I saw there (and one of the best) was an MTV sponsored show with Run-DMC, 24 Karat Soul (an a cappella group) and the headliners, Lou Reed and Jim Carroll. You can imagine the mix in the crowd- as I said- odd.

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01-25-2007, 06:39 AM

Posted By: Griffin's<<<<Watch the documentry Punk:Attitude. It's the only show I've ever seen that actually captures what punk was really about in the 70s and 80s.>>> Jay- You didn't like The Decline of Western Civilization?

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01-25-2007, 07:01 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorI'll take Never Mind the Bollocks any day over anything the Ramones or Clash put out. I really like the Clash, but I can't hardly listen to the Ramones. RIP Sid & Nancy

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01-25-2007, 07:07 AM

Posted By: Neal KaneRamones and the Clash as well ...

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01-25-2007, 07:23 AM

Posted By: Joe ToccoRanked by whose music I actually like to listen to, not by importance: 1. Joy Division 2. Bad Religion 3. Ramones 4. Clash All were influential in their own way, but amongst punk nothing gives me goosebumps like Joy Division's "Atmosphere," and nothing rocks quite like Bad Religion's entire "Generator" album. Joe

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01-25-2007, 07:34 AM

Posted By: MikeIf anyone here ever saw the MC 5 live, you'd not even mention any other punk bands. The toughest, the loudest, and done with soul. And unlike many others mentioned here, they could actually play..Detroits finest......the MC 5. Long may they live. In an interview, even Iggy said they were the greatest ever. "kick out the jams &#_)!*(> !!!!

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01-25-2007, 07:37 AM

Posted By: Chris CountsI saw the Clash the last time they performed. They literally broke up on stage after Joe and Mick went on an anti-Ronald Reagan rant. It was at a big festival out in the California desert, and the crowd was more metal heads than anything (they were there to see Van Halen, I think). The fans didn't appreciate their politics and pretty much rioted ... it was the craziest thing I ever saw ...

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01-25-2007, 07:40 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorI love Joy Division, too, but I hardly think they qualify as punk -- they were the beginning of New Wave, even if they were inspired by seeing the Sex Pistols live. And New Order absolutely rule... If you like Joy Division, you should know that Anton Corbijn (DM and U2 photographer) is putting the finishing touches on his movie "Control" about the life/death of Ian Curtis. And, of course, there's 24 Hour Party people, which is also a must see movie about JD.

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01-25-2007, 07:53 AM

Posted By: Rich KleinWas a big time baseball card collector, when I was in college in the late 70's-early 80's; I used to see him at all the major NY area shows. Rich

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01-25-2007, 08:18 AM

Posted By: ChadNo one's mentioned Fugazi? I have albums of a lot of the stuff mentioned, but I listen to the Clash and Social Distortion most of all. And nobody's mentioned that Blondie came out of the NYC punk scene. Punk contains multitudes. --Chad

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01-25-2007, 08:23 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliFugazi! Blondie! Talking Heads! Three big ones I forgot. That's what happens when you go off the top of your head. Somehow I don't think this is what Jim intended with this thread. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Sorry, Jim. I'll be better at the meeting, I promise. I'll only talk about jazz. -Al

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01-25-2007, 08:40 AM

Posted By: scott brockelmanthat there is more interest in Punk rock than solving the hobbies greatest mysteries. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Perhaps the meetings theme should be changed for greater participation.

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01-25-2007, 08:51 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanOk, I'm going to say this one last time and please take this as gospel because it is 100 percent accurate: The Clash is first on any of these lists, plain and simple. Yes, the Ramones came before...but if you go by that then you'd have to include the Velvet Underground which was probably the most influential band not just in the area of Punk but Metal as well (though the Ramones certainly started the scene in NYC). Indeed, the Velvet Underground and Nico might be the greatest album of all time (I named a dog Nico in reverence). As luck will have it, I had a friend who was close with Laurie Anderson and arranged a dinner for me with Lou and Laurie in NYC a few years back. I'm not ashamed to say that it was one of the greatest nights of my life. To be able to ask Lou question after question about lyrics, albums, concerts, artists was to die for. He was completely open, completely cool and answered every single sycophantic question I could muster. Example: favorite solo album: Magic and Loss. We ended the night smoking cigars and Lou showed me how to properly dump my ashes. As for the Clash, as I was about to pick the jury on the biggest case of my life I sat in court with Guns of Brixton blasting in my ears. I swear I had tears in my eyes after listening to that song and getting ready for battle. Barry, Combat Rock, which contains "Rock the Casbah" was, incidentally, the end of the Clash as we know it. While there were some great commercial songs on that album you could see that the band was being ripped apart by the Jones-Strummer artistic differences. Also, one Clash footnote: Elvis Costello wrote "Watching the Detectives" after listening to the Clash's first album for 24 hours straight.

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01-25-2007, 09:04 AM

Posted By: Rich KleinNow all we need is a couple of things 1) A discussion of the best restaurant in NY to discuss the punk scene and have a nice dinner. I'll take any and all suggestions 2) How many of us would let our kids (if we have them) listen to a similar message today <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Rich

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01-25-2007, 09:25 AM

Posted By: MikeOne last comment on the music thread. Blondie in the same class as MC 5 ?? That's like comparing Barry Manilow to Robert Plant. Come on now........

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01-25-2007, 09:30 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- great story about Lou Reed, and the Velvet Underground is a much underappreciated band today. All my record buying was pretty much in the 60's, so the music I know from the 70's on up is limited to what they play on the classic rock stations, which is of course mostly hits only and very repetitive. One day I will allow myself the pleasure of hearing many of the great songs that have eluded me. One of my experiences with a cult figure, and I must say it was an unpleasant one, occurred when I drove Abbie Hoffman from Long Island to NYC after he did a performance at C.W. Post College, where I was teaching at the time. He was a miserable SOB and I nearly turned him in to the cops when I reached the Midtown Tunnel. He was famous indeed, but a terrible carmate. Never even said thank you for the ride.

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01-25-2007, 09:36 AM

Posted By: ChadThe band came out of the New York punk scene. That's not my fault, it's just a fact. I've just always thought that was interesting. (For what it's worth, I like Blondie adn MC5. But then, I listen to a lot of different stuff and I'm not a musician so I can't really tell you who's competent or groundbreaking and who's not. I just like what I like. My girlfriend hates it when I break out the Roger Miller and then follow him with Ned's Atomic Dustbin and then Sam and Dave, though.) --Chad

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01-25-2007, 10:21 AM

Posted By: Dave Grimes...all these Punk Rockers from 20 - 30 years ago - becoming staid members of society, and spending all their disposable cash on little bits of cardboard <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> And they though we Hippies would turn out a bad lot <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-25-2007, 10:54 AM

Posted By: AndrewI'm glad someone finally mentioned Fugazi, my all-time favorite. And don't forget about Minor Threat! Andrew

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01-25-2007, 11:05 AM

Posted By: Joe ToccoIt's all semantics really, but I consider Joy Division punk. The early stuff, particularly the Warsaw demos, are classic stripped down lo-fi punk. By the end their music was hinting towards what New Order would become, but you'd still never confuse the two. I was born far too late to live through Joy Division, and even too late for New Order's heyday, but I did fly to Manchester for their reunion show in 1998 <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. I've gone to almost every North American show since. Joe

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01-25-2007, 11:26 AM

Posted By: DJYou simply can't throw Blondie or the Talking Heads or even Velvet Underground on this list. They simply don't make me angry like "good punk"...when the musical message is all about rebellion. Don't get me wrong, I love all three (espeically Lou Reed) but we are straying too far away from genuine punk. We'll be adding Survivor and Rascal Flatts shortly. When I saw Suicidal Tendancies in the mid-eighties when they first arrived on the scene, I got my ass kicked...people throwing themselves in my direction, not to injure...but it was about a unity of outcasts. Hard music, leather, mohawks, a ventilated face, black T-shirts..."Heart of Glass" never made me want to go into a violent fit. Can we throw Motorhead on this list? Lemmy...not an attractive man. Of course I consider "ST" more a post, post punk band that borders on heavy metal (and even thrash metal), but I wasn't able to see the great bands that we speak of during their prime. Butthole Surfers...great band. There is this movie called "The Devil and Daniel Johnston", a movie about a disturbed folk singer named Daniel Johnston and they interview Gibby while he is at the dentist working on his teeth. One of the most disturbing things you will ever see. What about G.G Allin? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I'm just glad no one here considers Good Charlotte or New Found Glory punk. Phew! DJ

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01-25-2007, 11:42 AM

Posted By: BruceWow, I forgot about G.G. Allin. He may have been the most hardcore of the hardcores. Never got to see him live but I had all his albums and recall seeing a good documentary on him in the 90's. Before baseball cards I collected punk/hardcore singles and albums. Now the only vinyl I have left is a few of the Misfits 7" that I can't seem to part with, even though I no longer own a turntable. I suppose they will find their way to ebay at some point so I can buy more cards.

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01-25-2007, 11:46 AM

Posted By: JimBDan, Thanks for the Sonic Youth video. Here are my favorites: 1. X 2. Sonic Youth 3. Germs 4. Black Flag 5. Clash 6. The Jam (sort of punk or they would rank higher) 7. Sex Pistols 8. Dead Kennedys 9. Social Distortion 10. Lydia Lunch JimB

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01-25-2007, 11:58 AM

Posted By: PCClash vs. Ramones -- Clash by a mile. The Clash have better musicianship (to the extent it matters in punk), lyrics and intensity, across entire albums. In my humble opinion, the Ramones mailed in a lot of their material. And I'm a Ramones fan, just have to be realistic in the comparisons to the Clash. And I think The Clash pale in comparison to The Jam (the greatest UK band that most Americans never heard of). Paul Weller took the band in a very different direction after the first couple of records, but it is all great. If you don't have it already, pick up the Jam compilation "Snap". And their live record "Dig the New Breed" is also amazing ... they are very English sounding, which maybe explains why they never took off in the US the way they did in England. But overall I prefer the American bands -- DKs, CJs (I was surprised reading through the posts how long it took before the Jerks were mentioned) and BF. And for more recent (meaning post 70s and 80s) punk-ish material, Social Distortion is great. I recommend "Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell" to all. What a great album. Interesting OT posts here. And glad to read about yet more common interests.

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01-25-2007, 12:05 PM

Posted By: Zach RiceI'm a huge fan of the British punk movement as well as what broke ground here in the U.S. The Buzzcocks, The Clash, Siouxsie and the Banshees, etc. The Dead Boys are a group I don't think I’ve read about in this thread yet, they were amazing. Who can forget Sonic Reducer? And though not totally "punk" but defiantly not easy listening either and more rock and roll, Iggy Pop and the Stooges need a mention in this thread.

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01-25-2007, 12:15 PM

Posted By: S GrossWhenever I feel old hanging out in Savannah with some SCAD students, I can always get a nod and a smile with my City Gardens stories. King Tut's City Gardens, 1701 Calhoun St. Trenton NJ 08618 609-392-8887 (TUTS). An old stand alone super market in the worst area of Trenton, painted brown on the outside and black on the inside. Saw Ramones in '78, DKs in '82, and SD in mid-80's. Now I'm getting all misty ..... And since this threads gone complete punk, lets list our DKs "Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegitables" album varities: I have ---- Orange with full 6 piece band on back

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01-25-2007, 12:30 PM

Posted By: JimBPC, I agree, Clash by a mile over the Ramones. Maybe it is just a New York thing and I am from LA, but the Ramones always seemed just sort of ok to me, but nothing special. Sonic Youth on the other hand, I think is one of the best bands in the past 25 years. And The Jam were incredible. I know they started with punkish roots in '76 abd '77, but I usually think of them more as a mod band than punk. they were one of my favorite bands in high school, along with X, The Specials, etc. JimB

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01-25-2007, 12:30 PM

Posted By: JayI would like to echo Zach's words---who can forget Sonic Reducer? (Great for removing cellulite from those hard to exercise places)

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01-25-2007, 12:50 PM

Posted By: John Basilone " I forgot about G.G. Allin. He may have been the most hardcore of the hardcores. " Agreed.

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01-25-2007, 01:07 PM

Posted By: AlanOK, that does it... Now, I'm definately going to see a punk concert while I am in Cleveland at the National.

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01-25-2007, 01:13 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThis is the best punk band none of you guys have ever heard of....Mercy Rule. Unfortunately nothing on youtube so I can't share with you how great they really were. <a href="http://www.speednebraska.com/page7.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.speednebraska.com/page7.html</a>

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01-25-2007, 01:24 PM

Posted By: barrysloateHate to get back on topic, but I think somewhere about 90 posts ago we were talking about tomorrow night's meeting. Well, I just heard the weather report and the prediction is for bitter cold, heavy winds, and some snow- a deep arctic freeze is heading in. I'm taking the subway, but for those travelling by car or otherwise, should we be keeping an eye on this?

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01-25-2007, 01:58 PM

Posted By: Elliot"the prediction is for bitter cold, heavy winds" Not to mention what the weather outside might be like. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-25-2007, 04:28 PM

Posted By: Frank EvanovBarry, dress warm. Single digit temperatures. 1 inch of snow. Frank

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01-25-2007, 04:37 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI love the cold, but some people may have commuting issues. It could get pretty icy out there. I would hate to see several weather related cancellations.

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01-25-2007, 04:55 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishWow, what a response to a tossed off line! Well, since everyone is waiting with baited breath (I'm sure): 1) Bad Religion 2) Social Distortion 3) Hooton 3 Car 4) Descendents/ALL 5) Leatherface 6) Avail All still active except for #3.

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01-25-2007, 05:13 PM

Posted By: martin dalziel Ah, my youth comes to life right before my eyes. Joy Division were definately punk. Got to see them in Manchester in 1978.Great show. Saw the Pistols a couple of times, Damned, Buzzcocks, Television, Rezillos, Jam, Clash, Adverts, Only Ones, The Saints and a ton of others. One of my drinking mates was Terry Hall, so when the Specials took of in Coventry we all went the Ska route. Great times. I sold off a bunch of my records a few years back - just like many cards, i wish i had them back.

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01-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Posted By: Max WederFrom CNN: <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/01/24/obit.liles.ap/index.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/01/24/obit.liles.ap/index.html</a> ex-Social Distortion bassist was killed in crash. Max

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01-25-2007, 05:57 PM

Posted By: Matt Bojorquez1). Circle Jerks 2). The Exploited 3). DRI 4). Cro-Mags 5). NOFX 6). Sick of it All 7). Youth of Today 8). Oxymoron 9). Pennywise 10). Biohazard

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01-25-2007, 05:59 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI love Social Distortion -- but for some reason they just don't seem punk to me. More like rockabilly mixed with blues with a touch of punk at best.

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01-25-2007, 06:22 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliI saw Social D with Sonic Youth and Neil Young/Crazy Horse, and Neil Young was the most punk of the three. -Al

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01-25-2007, 06:43 PM

Posted By: AnonymousGiven, I haven't heard some of these bands, but the ones mentioned that are bands or artists for the ages are: Buffalo Springfield, Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, Gang of Four, CSNY, The Clash, The Pixies, Patty Smith, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Velvet Underground, Talking Heads, Sam and Dave. The others are mostly dust bin; I don't care if I never here them again. Bring it on:)

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01-25-2007, 08:05 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliOSeedy, you inadvertantly left The Ramones off your list. Just letting you know. You can just click "Edit Message" and put them right at the top. -Al

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01-25-2007, 08:14 PM

Posted By: Ricky YIf you can get ahold of Urgh! A Music War video...its non stuff live conert footage of bands like the Dead Kennedy's, Surf Punks, X, XTC, Surf Punks, the Cramps, Pere Ubu, the Gang of Four...all in their hey day... so...any collectors here still sport any mohawks? Ricky

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01-25-2007, 08:57 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWhen cultures collide - This is what happens when you mix hippie music with punkers - the greatest cover song of all time. Although Husker Du's rendition of the theme song to the Mary Tyler Moore show is pretty good too. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NeqyCwAeT3I"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NeqyCwAeT3I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

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01-26-2007, 12:31 AM

Posted By: davidcyclebackAs I accidentally started this thread and as something of a hardcore punk advocate, I'll say that my picks for the best hardcore albums are 1) 'Damaged' by Black Flag, 2) 'Complete Discography' by Minor Threat and 3) 'Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables' by Dead Kennedys ... Damaged is in a league of its own within hardcore, and arguably contains the most brutal, physical, controntational music ever recorded. As a British critic once wrote, "Nothing you have experienced on the face of this earth will prepare you for this sonic assault." And before people get the wrong picture idea about me, I also have season tickets to the Seattle Symphony.