The Dallas Dinner- Curing the hobby's ills [Archive]

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01-20-2007, 09:02 AM

Posted By: leonAndy B. was in town yesterday so he, Scott B., and I got together for a little meat lovers dinner. We talked about curing the hobby's ills and what it would take. We decided we would leave it to someone else and we are having fun collecting just the way we are. None of us have ever collected by the number, other than the ACC #, although I know Scott has a registry set or two. We agreed that there's room for slab collectors, raw collectors, and everything in between. The dinner and conversation were very good....We'll be anxiously awaiting the report back from the NY get together....

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01-20-2007, 11:34 AM

Posted By: Scott Elkinsas much as I would love to see the Hobby cleaned up, it would be an arduous task. I, for one, am glad Jim Crandell took it upon himself to act on this aspect, as I wouldn't have the time or patience myself. Jim, at least, has Barry Sloate to help him. Barry has been around many years and has seen and heard many things, so that should be very helpful to Jim and his quest. For the most part, I agree with Leon - I am content to set back and enjoy collecting and the "chase" for new cardboard. However, I did extend Jim my help and told him that if he ever needs any help from me, that I would be more than happy to aid him in any way possible since I do love this Hobby (which I am almost certain any of us would help Jim as well). In the meantime, the best way I believe we "veteran" collectors can help is to educate the newbies and point out altered cards to others, as Mr. Sloate has done on this board in the past. I feel that if we keep a watchful eye and report wrong-doings publicly, then that is one step towards improving this great Hobby. Happy Collecting!

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01-20-2007, 12:21 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThanks Scott- and we'll see how that meeting goes. The real question is: how was that skewered steak? How long did it take for your green lights to turn to red? (Leon can explain that as he did to me).

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01-20-2007, 12:26 PM

Posted By: Jeff PriznerIf that's a Fogo De Chao reference, I'm guessing the meat was delicious and plentiful!

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01-20-2007, 12:28 PM

Posted By: leonWe went to a place that is a Brazilian steakhouse....called Fogo De Cao <a href="http://www.fogodechao.com" target="_new">http://www.fogodechao.com</a> Everyone has a little round piece of cardboard, about the size of a silver dollar on the table. One side is green and one is red. If you have it on green the waiters bring around an assortment of 15 different steaks, marinated chicken, and sausage, on skewers. When your plate is full you turn the green cardboard over to the other side, which is red, and it tells the servers to stop pushing meat in front of your face. When you are close to finished with what's on your plate you turn it back to green until your plate is full again. Repeat until bloated..... <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1169240785.GIF">

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01-20-2007, 12:31 PM

Posted By: barrysloateAt Peter Luger's you eat what they give you...if you tell the waiter you are still hungry they drag you into the parking lot and beat you up. Hey, it's Brooklyn!

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01-20-2007, 12:32 PM

Posted By: deletedwe have one of those places in Manhattan as well. Same thing with the red light / green light system. you have to go there hungry!

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01-20-2007, 12:33 PM

Posted By: barrysloateJoe- I never heard of it. Do you know the address? I guess it's a chain.

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01-20-2007, 12:36 PM

Posted By: Brian Weisner Hi Barry, It's on the corner of 1st and 1st next to awesome Ray's, and Kramer is lost downtown..... Have a good weekend Brian

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01-20-2007, 12:39 PM

Posted By: deletedgo hungry.... actually go starving. And leave the green light on in front of you. <a href="http://www.porcao.com.br/en/default.asp" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.porcao.com.br/en/default.asp</a>

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01-20-2007, 12:41 PM

Posted By: MikeI'm told there is going to be one downtown Minneapolis. Two blocks from my old office of 21 years. I will have to check it out. I'm not sure when it will be opening. Because collecting old baseball "stough" my other hobby, along with my wonderful wife, is finding new restraunts. We do it every two weeks or so. Kind of fun. And it is so much cheaper than "Old cardboard". But tastier. (No offense towards the terrific periodical)

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01-20-2007, 12:43 PM

Posted By: barrysloateYes- Kramer had a girlfriend downtown, remember it well...are we starting another Seinfeld thread? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-20-2007, 12:45 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCmy aunt & uncle went there for thanksgiving (the place in NYC), they said it was an amazing meal...my uncle is a very talented chef in his ownright, and is very critical of restaurants...he couldn't stop talking about this place! sounds like it's pizza & beer for us next week, however.

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01-20-2007, 12:49 PM

Posted By: barrysloateWhy wasn't this "on our menu" when we were planning that NYC dinner? Maybe Jim C. wants to have the Jan 25 meeting there next week. P.S.- I'm going around the corner for baby backs tonight!

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01-20-2007, 12:50 PM

Posted By: Josh AdamsI've been to the one here in Chicago. It rocks. The one in NYC is at 1st and 1st?! That's at the nexus of the universe! Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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01-20-2007, 12:53 PM

Posted By: barrysloateUh-uh...here we go. I was just sharing this line with Bruce Babcock, another Seinfeld fanatic: "the air is so dewy sweet you don't even have to lick the stamps."

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01-20-2007, 01:00 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCBarry- this place didn't come up for conversation on the famous "NYC Dinner" thread, because that was way before Thanksgiving...i didn't know this place existed until then...

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01-20-2007, 01:12 PM

Posted By: barrysloateFair enough- and I think Jim wants this in his office so let's leave it at that. And for those who plan to attend- and Jim if you are reading this feel free to respond- what do people hope to accomplish at this meeting? While evrybody would like to see the business run on the up and up, exactly what can we as a group do?

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01-20-2007, 01:17 PM

Posted By: MVSNYCbarry- just teasing about the pizza & beer... i don't care what we eat, just looking forward to meeting everyone. MS

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01-20-2007, 02:04 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellWe had our dinner last week at Hibiscus in Dallas--ever been there Leon? Thanks Scott--appreciate your offers of help. If everyone comes who says they will we should have 8-10 guys. Jim

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01-20-2007, 05:30 PM

Posted By: leonIt sounds like a plant to me?....never been there. Fogo is literally 1.0 miles from my office, which is in Addison (North Dallas)..I went straight there from work...I hate to venture anywhere near downtown....there are some nice places but I prefer the suburbs....Had you not wanted to meet so late we could have gotten together. I think I was home by 9:15 last night....Starting at nine would be too late for me...on a weeknight..Besides, I think we got it all figured out last night ...it's all good. best regards

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01-20-2007, 05:38 PM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffBarry, To answer your question, you, Jim, and the others will all be teaming up with O.J. to find the real killer. -Ryan

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01-20-2007, 05:41 PM

Posted By: barrysloateIsn't O.J. busy these days doing the book signing tour?

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01-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Posted By: AnonymousLeon, I hope so. Restaurant in Highland Park? Had a business dinner which carried on well into the evening at the bar at the Mansion at Turtle Creek so it was all for the best. But hey--you live near Dallas and you probably don't know the single most important person in card collecting who happens to live near there and participates on this board. Jim

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01-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- vintage card important, or PSA 8 important?

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01-20-2007, 05:54 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaUh Oh!

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01-20-2007, 06:09 PM

Posted By: leonI probably don't hang around the same crowd as you or the folks you know. I like to hoot and holler and make friends and have fun. I think you said that's not why you come around here. I consider one of the most important collections around this area to be one I am going to see in a week or so. It's from a very humble, quiet, gentleman. He collects cards, not slabs, and I doubt has very many graded, if any. Other than that I have several good friends locally..... I give though.....who is it? (please don't say Dr.Beckett as I spent a fair amount of time with him at the last National..which was the first time I had the pleasure of meeting him and was truly my honor.)

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01-20-2007, 06:15 PM

Posted By: AnonymousLeon, I think this guy is more fun than you are but then again I have never hung out with you.

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01-20-2007, 06:18 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaOkay I'm going to guess you're talking about Rich Klein....I don't even know if he's from Dallas, but I do know that he works for Beckett.

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01-20-2007, 06:58 PM

Posted By: leonI get together with Rich every now and then and definitely consider him a friend. I would imagine there are thousands of people more fun than I am in Dallas...(I would say millions but there's only a little more than a million in Dallas in total). For the record I have eaten at The Mansion a few times. It's one of those 5 star "hoity toity" places....you have to wear a coat and tie I believe....but don't remember...I know we did when we went...I think one of us wasn't wearing a coat and they gave us one to wear. (hey that sort of sounds like Bruce)....anyway, we weren't impressed by the 9 green beans and 6 oz filet with blah blah sauce......Last night rocked, as far as eating and company goes.....There's more than enough room for everyone to enjoy this hobby the way they want to. In any major city there will be lots of great collectors I am sure........take care

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01-20-2007, 07:00 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWell, I guess Crandell's not going to let the rest of the hobby know who the most important person in the hobby is???

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01-20-2007, 07:08 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDid Adam J. Moraine move to the Big D?

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01-20-2007, 07:11 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaOnly if Bob Feller moved there. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-20-2007, 07:14 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblittplaying the hoity toity card....... I'm with you.......keep your pinky from poking and eat large chunks of meat.....steak doesn't need special sauces.....

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01-20-2007, 07:15 PM

Posted By: AnonymousDan, Not to guys that are rude. Leon doesn't care so I will drop it. Jim--not Crandell

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01-20-2007, 07:18 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, I'm actually curious -- you're not referring to Don Spence, are you?

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01-20-2007, 07:20 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaJim, how will we ever know who the most important person in card collecting is if you don't tell us???

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01-20-2007, 07:21 PM

Posted By: AnonymousJeff, I wasn't but Spence has one of the top 5 collections in the hobby. Simply amazing and a lock for the Hall of Fame this year. Jim

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01-20-2007, 07:22 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWhat Hall of Fame?? Is there a card collector hall of fame?

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01-20-2007, 07:25 PM

Posted By: AnonymousDan, PSA Set Registry Hall of Fame--started 4 yrs ago and they let in 1 person per year. Jim

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01-20-2007, 07:31 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblitta couple of the guys are juicing......might not make the hall.......

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01-20-2007, 07:38 PM

Posted By: AnonymousTom, Is that what is keeping Bill out? Seriously, I would be an advocate of Bill Bengen making it in the future. Jim

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01-20-2007, 08:26 PM

Posted By: Cobby33Registry guys are on the juice? Who??? --Or are you saying the PSA grades their cards have are juiced? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-20-2007, 09:10 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDon is also one of the nicest guys I have met - either in or out of the hobby.

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01-21-2007, 03:11 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellJeff, How do you know Don Spence? Jim

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01-21-2007, 05:17 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, I've gotten to know him recently and spent some time with him when he was in New York a few months back. He is a very decent, humble, funny and kind man. And his enthusiasm for the hobby is endearing. Jeff

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01-21-2007, 05:50 AM

Posted By: mvsnyci can second the vote, that don spence is a super guy, real gentlemen...i too met up with him while he was in NY recently...we have done a few transactions...

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01-21-2007, 06:02 AM

Posted By: AnonymousJeff and Mike, I met him briefly at the PSA Set Registry luncheon at the National and based on just a brief chat he seemed to be all the things you said. He is the poerfect example of the point I have made several times on this board that high-grade PSA vintage card collectors are every bit as passionate about the hobby as low grade collectors. Jim

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01-21-2007, 06:27 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI think everone who collects, regardless of the grade or their budget, enjoys what they do. Otherwise, what's the point?

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01-21-2007, 06:28 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBarry, very true. I do find it amusing how everyone in this hobby is from such diverse backgrounds yet when talk of cards comes up we are all on the same wavelength for the most part.

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01-21-2007, 06:32 AM

Posted By: barrysloateWell, vintage cards are the glue that keeps this group together...it certainly isn't politics, we've already proven that <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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01-21-2007, 06:37 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellExactly--there are some however who talk about the investors in this hobby and how bad it is and they don't know anything about cards blah blah blah. I am still looking for an "investor". Everyone I know who collects loves the hobby.

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01-21-2007, 06:53 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThere are some people who start out by purchasing cards purely for investment, but each of them will eventually want to learn as much as they can about them; and there is a certain aesthetic appeal to baseball artifacts that in the end is hard to resist.

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01-21-2007, 10:20 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBarry, I wonder if anyone who actually buys rare baseball cards does so as an investment only. There are so many investment vehicles and most are less speculative than rare cardboard -- you'd be hard pressed to find any financial advisor that would ever suggest in a serious manner that cards are a prudent part of any investment portfolio. That being said, clearly one can make plenty of dough investing in cards. In my mind, I have yet to meet a single person -- even among the most mercenary of dealers -- that was not initially drawn to cards due to their love of the game or hobby.

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01-21-2007, 10:26 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI think there are people who do buy cards as an investment, but probably get some enjoyment out of owning them along the way. I know everybody says they are not a good form of investment, but if you bought a lot of candy cards five years ago, I think you would be ahead. What they do starting tomorrow is anybody's guess.

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01-21-2007, 10:40 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellI see no reasons why cards shouldn't be a part of an investment portfolio. I love the hobby but I include it in my investment portfolio. The assets are liquid, it has outperformed(vintage high grade cards) most other asset classes, more people are entering the hobby, the supply is limited and the direction still appears to be up. Sure beats a CD or a govt bond. I would have no qualms about recommending a portfolio have 10-15% in vintage graded cards.

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01-21-2007, 11:06 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim -- agreed. But do you know any financial planner that has ever suggested cards as an investment vehicle?

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01-21-2007, 11:07 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- I agree. Nothing wrong with squirreling away a few quality cards purely for the sake of investment.

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01-21-2007, 12:29 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellJeff, No--I don't. Unless mine has after hearing my pitch for them. Jim

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01-21-2007, 01:13 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisOver the past 30 years the following investment breakdown has been a winning formula for me...... % Invested....Instrument 55........Real Estate (homes, wooded property, etc.) 20........Sportscards (BB, FB, BskB) 15........Stocks 10........Bank CD's during the late '70s to mid-80's....after which gains were Xferred to above 3 items)

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01-21-2007, 02:36 PM

Posted By: CatI have been thinking a lot about cards and my percentage of net worth tied up in my collection. I am probably twice as passionate about the stock market as I am collecting cards. I enjoy each but certainly cards a little bit more. I have kept a personal balance sheet since 9/20/1991. I was worth ($20,892) on that date. Yep, I was upside down in life. Half of the debts were student loans...not an "investment" I will ever bitch about. About three/four months ago, I decided having 23% of my net worth in cards was too much, and I wanted to go to 20%, but today I have about 25% of my net worth in cards...whoops wrong direction. I believe my cards will be passed to my heir(s), so no way do I consider them an investment. In fact, I look at them as an asset, but a dead asset (no return, assets only have returns when you sell them, until then it's just paper gain). I am a firm believer in the stock market, but only keep a small portion of my net worth in individual stocks, but approximately 50% of my net worth is in mutual funds. Real Estate can be very lucrative but equally disastrous.