Buying Collections

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>I have been grappling with the should I, or shouldn't I in regards to buying a bulk collection.<br /><br />My idea would be to buy it, sell off whatever I don't want, and hopefully either break even or get the ones I do want for "cheap."<br /><br />Has anyone done this (that is not a dealer) and what kind of success have you had. <br /><br />I saw this auction:<br /><a href="http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=2212968&mpre=http%3A//cgi.ebay.com/PSA-Babe-Ruth-Mickey-Mantle-T206-1952-Topps-1933-Goudey_W0QQitemZ230079212472QQihZ013QQcategoryZ448 21QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem">is this worth it?</a><br /><br />and thought, well, is it?<br /><br />(My question is not restricted to this auction in particular), but in general.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>well, if you were hoping to get this lot cheap...that won't happen anymore...you just tipped-off the whole board to this collection, and you will now get many people interested in this lot and new unwanted fellow bidders...<br /><br /><br />ahhh, grasshopper.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>I was using that auction as an example. I am SLIGHTLY smarter then that.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>my bad...i didn't see your last line of text...not limiting it to that auction...<br /><br /><br />to answer your question, don't bother, by the time you weed thru a huge lot, you'll probably love 30% of it, then you'll spend the next year trying to break apart & sell the rest, in hopes of "breaking even"...<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>First off, I wouldn't bid on a bulk ebay lot of this size because it would be impossible to determine actual value with the limited amount of information provided in the auction item description. If the lot were relatively small and all the cards were graded then you could reasonably conclude the value of the lot and determine if you want to hassle with it. But there would be a lot of others thinking the same thing...<br /><br />I would only buy a huge bulk collection if I could personally inspect it and if it wasn't on ebay. The only question is would it be worth the time to parse it out and sell it. '<br /><br />I've picked up small collections in the past and done this. Sometimes you can make out pretty good. I've walked away from more deals than I've picked up because people tend to believe what they have is worth much more than it really is worth.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Higgins & Scott and other reputable auction houses often have large group lots of cards, autographs<br />or memorabilia. This might be the place for you to get a bulk lot and see how it works. Whether<br />or not you make a profit, you will at least be assured you are buying authentic material from folks<br />who have an idea about grading.

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>The figuring out the value and the time it would take to sell off the collection is what holds me back. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Those are good considerations.<br /><br />I've bought and sold collections. If you have a hankering to buy and resell a collection, there's<br />nothing wrong with dropping $1,000 on a big lot. I would start with one of the reputable auctions,<br />so you are confident with the material. If you treat it as an experiment, the worst that will happen is<br />you will lose a few bucks and learn how the process works. If the lot contains a variety of interesting<br />stuff, you get to enjoy looking at in person even if you don't keep it.<br /><br />Having followed all the big auctions, there are decent deals to be had and also lots that are way overvalued.<br />So I wouldn't throw a dart.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I'm not familiar with baseball, but I try to do it regularly with boxing cards.<br /><br />The last couple I have done have been small but successful.<br /><br />I bought a collection of mixed cards for $700 of an auction house, sold the ones I didn't want for just over $800, and in the process kept a few cards, including one worth $200-$300. The auction house only displayed a dozen or so of the 33 card lot, so I took a gamble and got lucky with some nice cards in very nice condition.<br /><br />I also bought a small mixed lot of cards for $150, sold off a bunch of common cards for $150, kept a few nice vintage rarer cards for myself, and still have probably $75 worth of cards to sell (I got lucky with this one as a few of the cards weren't listed in the auction so they were a bonus).<br /><br />I guess a lot of collectors try to complete sets so probably avoid bulk lots of mixed cards, so there are bargains to be found.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>say.......1996...........<br />You could bid in and win large lots in Ron Oser auctions and do really well with them. I'd routinely buy $2-$5K lots, keep difficult pieces, and sell off the rest generally for AT LEAST what I paid for them and kept great cards for my collection. Sadly, with the marriage of Oser and Mastro, those days dried up pretty quickly in the late 1990's. Same for other auctions out there. There are still some deals to be had that way but you really have to study the lots. Its easier to do it with graded cards now because you have a list of all of them and the grades are more widely accepted. A lot like the one you listed from ebay is difficult unless you really know the seller and they do a good job picturing all the cards. What looks as EX may often be VG and the price differential is significant on something like that. But....it's a good way to add to your collection and defer a lot of the expense if you can do it......

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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>buying large lots, especially when the most valuable cards are raw can be very tricky. I think most think major auction houses and ofcourse ebay sellers tend to overgrade their cards, so you must take that into account. With these types of purchases, i agree with what was said above. Its very important to be able to see the cards first hand. When you buy cards one at a time you often can get a high resolution scan and have atleast some kind of idea of condition, but it can be a crap shoot in these big lots. I've seen some go for a large sum with bidders probably hoping that a few of those EX T206 might really be NM or NM-MT and were skipped over due to the size of the lot. but also they can be undervalued too, due to important details being left out of the auction. bottom line, caveat emptor! (hope i spelled that right) & good luck

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>A good number of years back I won at a good price at Mastro what must have been someone's personal<br />collection. It contained vintage 1960s bobble heads, team photo sets, autographed baseballs with 1960s teams<br />and even a Mickey Mantle single (I was happy when than resold for $150!), 1950 World Series tickets,<br />small pile of sports wirephotos including one signed by Bobby Hull, baseball pennants, Agentinian football <br />memorabilia including pins and silk pennant, other various ephemera. All of it resold well and it was good<br />fun handling it. If someone you didn't know on eBay offered such a lot you'd wonder what you actually receive if you win.<br /><br />It's nice to win a single item, but you know exactly what you're getting getting in the mail. There's nothing<br />better to me than get a big box filled with cool assorted stuff like above that will take you a few hours<br />to go through and appreceate. It's like Christmas.

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Posted By: <b>MEWheat</b><p>I agree 100% with Tom B. I've purchased several collections in the past and it was much easier to make money in the late 90's.<br /><br />The times I've been most succesful are when I've independently asked the sellers to e-mail me a comprehensive list/photos or I've been able to inspect in person. Of course, this eliminates a lot of the deals since most are too far or the sellers can't/won't provide that information for one reason or another.<br /><br />However, persistence pays off. I bought a collection of '55 Bowmans from a guy that got them in exchange for an old pick up truck. There were over 3,000 cards and contained 5 vg/ex Mantles. Not pre-war, but it was a great deal for me.

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>I guess my question is, what do you consider a collection??<br /><br />The link to that thing on eBay, to me, is not a "collection" but a "grouping" of cards. What I mean by that is, there is no focus, just a bunch of stuff thrown together to make a splash on eBay.<br /><br />To me, a collection is like what I used to buy when I was in high school. While my friends were spending their money on other stuff, I was buying their baseball card collections. Sure, it was mostly 1970's stuff but this was also only the mid-80's when I was doing this. So, I was able to pick up cards cheap that either filled holes in my sets or upgraded cards as far as condition went.<br /><br />Later, while in college, I bought a couple guys collections from when they were kids. The bulk of one collection consisted of Topps baseball cards from 1956-1958 with a few 1955's and 1959's. These cards were VGish and the 1957 Mantle had been used in bicycle spokes. The other collection were 1960 and 1961 Topps cards. These were in better condition, especially the 61's because the guy never really "got into" collecting cards. So, those two purchases really helped me as far as cards from that era.<br /><br />As far as Pre-War goes, I have missed out on a small collection of Diamond Stars and Goudeys. Another small collection of W502's. Three different stacks of B18's and the worst was over 1,000 tobacco cards from the 1880's. There were only 3 baseball cards (N28 of Clarkson, Keefe and Caruthers) but there were cards of Annie Oakley, Wild Bill Hickok, N28 athletes plus multiple complete sets of Fish and Birds series.<br /><br />So, today (and using the board as an example) buyin a collection to me would be like Leon's type card collection. Yes, they are varied years but there is a theme. Price?? Probably high but that is only natural because of rarities like the T231 fan card and also the time it took to put his collection together.<br /><br />So, what type of collection are you talking about?? Something that a kid put together, whatever the era, by buying cards in packs?? Something that someone has taken the time and energy to put together in a thoughtful manner or something like that link on eBay where someone has just thrown a bunch of stuff together??<br /><br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I only purchase amalgamations, because it's too hard to turn a profit on conglomerations.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>I have never before seen those two words in the same sentence...seriously.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>And both spelled correctly, too <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I admit I looked up the spelling of amalgamation before I posted.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>David- when I post I have my dictionary right next to me and I look up words all the time. It's not cheating, it's the way everyone should do it before they hit "respond" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The worst is when you do a spell check on a word, and your spelling is so off<br />the computer can't even offer a suggestion.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>NO AMALGAMATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION........<br /><br />Okay, I'm ready to go home and take a brief nap...........<br />I've officially lost it........<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>My take on buying large lots from a major auction house is that you will, most likely, be overpaying for the cards. The large auction houses get a different group of people bidding on their auctions as opposed to ebay auctions. I believe a substantial group of collectors with deep pockets would rather pay extra for their cards from these auction houses than scour ebay for the same cards. <br /><br />Next time Mastro has a group of 100 T206 cards or so, check the final price with the hammer. Then estimate what you would pay individually for each card, including shipping, if you bought it on ebay. I am willing to wager that the Mastro price exceeds the total individual ebay prices.<br /><br />Just my thoughts.<br /><br />Cy

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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>for a large lot like that, i personally would need the time (and money) to sort through and sell off whatever i didnt want...if this guy's bv is $50k then its probably worth $20k, since there are so many cards, its very possible to make up the $20k but is it worth the time, effort and money when you cant see the "true" condition of the cards?? if they were all graded, then i'd bid...otherwise i'd want to see them in person

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>You want to be buying within your area of experience and knowledge, but you also want to have<br />an open mind when buying bulk lots. If your mentality is "I love T206s, so I only want to buy a<br />bulk lot of T206s" or "I want to resell only A's lots as they're favorite team" you likely will overpay. Notice that my <br />mentioned group lot included a variety of memorabilia, including stuff I would never buy to add to my personal collection.<br /><br />Though, despite wanting to cast a wider than personal taste net, you probably don't want to buy a $10K Civil<br />War collection if you are ignorant about Civil War memorabilia. Even if it's all authentic, you may find<br />out you overpaid. If you want to buy a $500 Civil War collection that might be different story, especially<br />if you wish to see how that kind of stuff resells and you think it would be neat to look at the stuff.<br /><br />I once bought a giant 1930s-60s football news service photo collection that cost me several thousand. Beyond<br />reselling, boy did I learn about vintage college and pro football reading those captions and looking at those<br />pictures one by one. I learned about old players I knew little about, like Marshall Goldberg, Emil<br />Sitko, Steve Owen. It was an education. The best photo in the collection, and one I didn't know I'd receive,<br />was an original 1930s Harold Edgerton strobascopic (ultra-high speed) photo of former Ohio State All-American<br />Wes Fesler kicking a football. Edgerton was an M.I.T. professor who produced those famous high speed photos, like<br />of milk dripping, bullet going through a card (below) and atomic blasts (below). He had invented a high speed<br />camera that took the first ever unblurred images of a turbine engine running and a hummingbird's<br />wings flapping. Before his invention, no human in history had ever seen unblurred a hummingbird's wings in flight. <br />The Wesler photo was only vintage 1930s example of his photography I've seen to this day, and just <br />happened to be tucked in with wire photos of Gayle Sayers and Vince Lomardi.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/photography/images/photograph/medium/im00072.jpg"><br /><img src="http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-02/edgerton-atomic-bomb.jpg">