E94 back variation?

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I was comparing the backs of some E94s and noticed what seems to be a back variation. On one card, there are missing quotes on the left of 4 names. <br /><br />"OLD" CY YOUNG is missing both ticks on the left quote ( OLD" )<br /><br />"HARRY" DAVIS<br />"TY" COBB<br />"TOMMY" LEACH are all missing the left tick on the left quote ( 'TOMMY" )<br /><br />I looked at the card under high power magnification and checked for paper loss, etc. All of the original paper stock and gloss is there. A printing freak or are there several cards out there with the same missing quote marks? The ink strike on all adjacent letters is strong and whole. In addition, the quotes around "HUGH" above "CY" is all there. Seems like they would have been affected as well if it was a mis-strike.<br /><br />Can anyone confirm if their E94s have a similar "variation"?<br /><br /><a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/e94backs.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Its my understanding that any e94 missing on or more quote marks is fake. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Richard,<br />I just went through my E94s and one of mine has the exact same print missing. <br />JimB<br /><br /><img src="http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/8659/e94cobbbacker8.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Jim - Good news indeed! I am not seeing things!<br /><br />Josh - Sorry, if it was a one of a kind print defect, I would have just given you the scrap <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Richard,<br />Can we come to an agreement that this rare variation quadruples the value of the card?<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Seriously though, what does qualify a card as a variation?<br /><br />Richard, what is the front of yours? Mine is a purple Cobb.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>"what does qualify a card as a variation?"<br /><br />Good question. I think more than one of the exact same difference is a very good start.<br />

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Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>same player on front, but 2 different backs would be a variation.<br /><br />See if it is found only on certain players or all the players?<br /><br />It might just be from an earlier or a second printing or something, like the R300 Fox/Foxx Klien/Klein back variation, or the R306 Sept./Oct. variation.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Jim - forgot to answer your other question. My front is an olive Cobb.

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>I guess the question now is, are there any purple or olive cobbs without the variation noted above.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Josh - yes there are.

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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Guess's who's on front of this one?<br />Are there cobbs without this?<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/caramelcard/assortedcaramels/websize/e94backvariation.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>So we have 3 examples of the variation and all have Cobb fronts, but with different colors. And we know that people also have these Cobbs without the variation. This is getting interesting.<br /><br />We are waiting on you TBob. Give us your data. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>Interesting guys...I pulled out my 3 e94's and the devore w/violet back(on the left) only has 1/2 of a quotation mark in front of ty cobbs name and the murray w/lime green back has the full quotation mark...both have quotes @cy young.<br /><br />pete ullman<br /><br /><img src="http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/ullmandds/e94backs.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>ockday</b><p>I have 18 E94's...no Cobbs...and all have exactly the same back..no variations<br /><br />Alan

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>My scanner went haywire tonight before I finished but here's my report&gt;<br /><br />143 E94s with the traditional quotation marks;<br />3 E94s (all Cobbs) with the single quotation mark on Davis, Cobb and Leach;<br />1 E94 (Green Bescher) with the same 3rd variation that Pete U. found, a single quotation only on Cobb.<br />I looked carefully with a magnifying glass and there is no paper loss and it is a high grade card.<br />Here are 2 of the 3 Cobbs I inspected:<br /><br /><img src="http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/trophybob/cobbs.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>143 tbob? what the f**k? no wonder they're so hard to find!<br /><br />pete in mn

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Well all this talk about variations is very interesting, but I'm still stuck on "143 E94's". GEEZ. Wow. That's really inconceivable to me. I don't even have 143 total cards of all kinds put together. lol<br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Bob - thanks for the detailed report!<br /><br />Here are the totals to date:<br /><br />Variation #1: Cy Young missing both left quote marks. One missing left quote on Davis, Cobb and Leach.<br />Variation #2: Ty Cobb missing one quote mark on left.<br /><br />200 total E94s:<br /><br />1) 192 have no variation<br />2) 6 cards have Variation #1. All 6 are Cobbs: 1 Violet, 1 Blue, 2 Olives, 2 Reds. Cobbs in Voilet, Blue and Red are confirmed with no variation as well.<br />3) 2 cards have Variation #2. Devore voilet and Bescher green.<br /><br />I'll update as more information becomes available.<br /><br />Thanks guys!

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Bob, when will you be able to look at the rest of your e94's? (in addition to the 147) WOW!<br><br>

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I went 0 for 9 on ebay 2 nights ago so the number may stay there for a while <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> Plus I have 3 Cobbs (oh by the way my other Cobb is olive) and 3 Wagners to go yet so the ultimate goal is very distant even if the cards turn up.

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>having 147 e94s is like having 14853 t206s <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>...you never win any on ebay but i'd say you're doing very well picking stuff up here and there. nice overprint also! I much prefer them over the e98 OP. Good luck with the master set, I think you're the only one left carrying out that quest?<br /><br />q.

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Yes, but now Bob is screwed. He has to get 12 Cobbs (6 colors no variation and 6 colors with variation #1)<br /><br />Now who would want to be in Bob's shoes! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>That's a great accomplishment having that many of those things. WoW!! ... Of the 10 I have all are the regular quotation types.....best regards

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I think we should all prostrate at the E94 feet of TBob. We are not worthy!<br />JimB<br /><br />P.S. That red Cobb is a blazer!

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>hey bob did you upgrade the red cobb? i remember you used to have another lower red that you bought from the lelands lot that was mislabeled as an e98?

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Posted By: <b>B.C.Daniels</b><p>two complete graded sets<br />one purple variation set minus 3 cards<br />and 3 overprints<br /><br />I bought a super high grade st from Rob Lifson in 1993 complete for 17k and built from there...<br /><br />and Richard.........you know I have some Cobbs in colors<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Brian -<br /><br />That's a lot of E94s and a lot of data you can contribute to the thread. Do you mind checking your E94 backs and posting your findings?

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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>c'mon brian...do it...do it.<br />

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Posted By: <b>B.C.Daniels</b><p>when I go to the bank and check out my dafe deposit box. learned this from "Q" never leave cards at home worth money!<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Darrell</b><p>Richard<br /><br />I just checked 19 of mine -- found no variations and ......I still have no Cobbs.... Will let you know on 5 more soon -- interesting thread ....at least I know where many of the Cobbs are !! ----- thanks Darrell

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Thanks to Leon and Darrell for the updates. Here is the latest:<br /><br />Variation #1: Cy Young missing both left quote marks. One missing left quote on Davis, Cobb and Leach.<br />Variation #2: Ty Cobb missing one quote mark on left.<br /><br />229 total E94s:<br /><br />1) 221 have no variation<br />2) 6 cards have Variation #1. All 6 are Cobbs: 1 Violet, 1 Blue, 2 Olives, 2 Reds. Cobbs in Voilet, Blue and Red are confirmed with no variation as well.<br />3) 2 cards have Variation #2. Devore voilet and Bescher green.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Richard,<br />Are there one each of the no-variation-Cobbs that you mentioned?<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Here is an update:<br /><br />Variation #1: Cy Young missing both left quote marks. One missing left quote on Davis, Cobb and Leach.<br />Variation #2: Ty Cobb missing one quote mark on left.<br /><br />240 total E94s:<br /><br />1) 232 have no variation<br />2) 6 cards have Variation #1. All 6 are Cobbs: 1 Violet, 1 Blue, 2 Olives, 2 Reds. Cobbs in Violet, Blue and Red are confirmed with no variation as well.<br />3) 2 cards have Variation #2. Devore voilet and Bescher green.<br /><br />Jim - to answer your question regarding Cobb's without the variation, not everyone has responded with the level of detail on whether or not they have Cobbs without the variation so I am not sure if I can state anything with any level of accuracy. However, there has only been a single Violet, Blue and Red with no variation reported so far.

[ullmandds]

As I draw nearer to completing this set...I was looking through old threads and I thought I'd reprise this thread with my latest observations...nothing revolutionary here...I can add that I now have 30 e94's and my olive cobb follows the pattern of Variation #1. I have 2 devores...1 violet and 1 red and they exhibit variation #2...which I have observed that in addition to a single quotation only on Cobb, there are stray type marks in front of Moore...and a more pronounced/larger stray type mark in front of byrne on this variation as well and not present on the other 2 back types.

I have a bescher on the way and will be curious if this back follows the pattern of Devore...with variation #2.

[steve B]

I just had a look at the few I have and they're all the normal backs.

I did notice a couple oddities.

The comma after Devlin sometimes has the lower half missing making it look like a period.

The first quote before Ty Cobb is sometimes missing some of the left side.

Those are consistent on the one player I have 2 of, so it's probably just the quirk of that section of the sheet.

From the scans it looks like the variations also have the top of the second b in Cobb complete. On the normal backs it's got a gap. That's a pretty common thing with actual type. And it does look like the backs are typographed rather than lithographed.

Steve B

[gnaz01]

I just looked at my Olive Cobb & Red Mickey Doolan (Both Ex-Lionel Carter Collection) and it has both "ticks" for quotations for "Ty", not the single mark on the left. Although on Lord, there is an "N" all the way out to the right border on the back on that line, almost DIRECTLY below the "N" in National on the above line where Leach is. Weird!!

[ullmandds]

hmmm, Greg...that seems to buck the trend!? How about some scans?

[gnaz01]

hmmm, Greg...that seems to buck the trend!?

Peter, Have you heard of the "N" below the "N" in National RIGHT BELOW the Leach?? I will try and post a scan later, but it is odd, almost as if these were made 1 at a time :confused:

[ullmandds]

I have NOT...I'll recheck mine when I get home...added 2 more today...3 more should be coming this week.

So if I'm understanding you correctly...there's a stray "N" on the line of Lord...after American just hanging out there?!?!

[gnaz01]

I have NOT...I'll recheck mine when I get home...added 2 more today...3 more should be coming this week.

So if I'm understanding you correctly...there's a stray "N" on the line of Lord...after American just hanging out there?!?!

Yes, that is correct!

[tbob]

Wow, I can't believe all the posts about my E94 master set attempt. :D I am still working on it 4 years later. A lot closer but still not finished.

[ullmandds]

Bob...we all recognize you has the e94 god...but I believe this thread was started about e94 back variations!:)

Oh and I checked mine and no stray, dangling N's?!?!

[gnaz01]

Oh and I checked mine and no stray, dangling N's?!?!

OK, Peter, here is 2 pics. the first one shows the back of a Red e94 Mickey Doolan with the "N" and the 2nd is the back on an e94 Olive Ty Cobb showing name in quotes. Sorry for the bad photos, I never claimed to be a photographer :D

Thoughts??

[steve B]

Id think that one with the stray N is a printing error.

You can see parts of the an from the line above, and a bit of "sb" from Pittsburgh as well.

It's probably what's called a "kiss print" where the paper is set onto the type, but slightly off, then moved into the correct position and printed.
In this case it looks like the paper was touched while on the type in the wrong spot so the area printed came out pretty solid. Usually it's more like a light hint of doubling.

Unless the backs are lithographed, then ignore all the above as it's a typography thing.

Steve B

[ullmandds]

Hmmm...that's definitely...different...and odd!?!?!?!?

[E93]

Hmmm...that's definitely...different...and odd!?!?!?!?

+1

[gnaz01]

Hmmm...that's definitely...different...and odd!?!?!?!?

Yeah, but definitely cool as I can picture someone loading sheets into a printing press and getting them slightly off (I have a vivid imagination :D)