The solution to all of these threads- altering? [Archive]

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11-30-2006, 07:13 PM

Posted By: leonOk....here's the deal. I think I have spoken to 100 "card" people on the phone today. Ask the guy next to you....we probably spoke. We have a fairly evenly divided split on whether to let this stuff go or can it. Unfortunately (to quote Dave F- whom I spoke with about an hour ago) I have to make a decision. If I do nothing then that is a decision. What I am going to do, most likely, is lock some of the redundant threads and let the others go. If that doesn't work I will figure something else out. I don't want to stop the folks from talking about such an important topic and I don't want to continue to take the calls saying this is killing the hobby for many people that actually like to relax and collect. So, I am going to lock some threads in a little while, let some go, and I don't want to see new ones pop up. If I do I will delete them unless there is something new. Like Barry, I can't keep up with all of them and all of them are discussing the same topic....I just don't know what else to do....and this is as good of a compromise as I can think of right now. I reserve the right to change my mind though <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. When you see locked threads it's not anything personal...it's doing as I said I would...take care and happy collecting

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11-30-2006, 08:02 PM

Posted By: Brian GoldnerBest news that i've heard all day Leon. Though there are significant issues here to address, it becomes a difficult problem to approach, when it is not clear whom or how many people are performing the various alterations that are deemed unpermissable. I certainly appreciate the fact that many throughout the hobby are concerned about this (myself included), and hopefully some constructive conclusions may be reached, to provide a partial solution to these issues. With regard to a full solution, i just don't believe it to be possible, without the grading services eventually becoming equipped with technology that is able to detect the highest quality of professional restoration. In the meantime, it would be advantagous if the Collectors, Dealers, and Grading Services could be on the same page, on all of these sensitive issues. Working together will work far better than the divide and conquer mentality, that seems to be the norm here these days. From this perspective, the multiple threads have crowded out what i thought was the major reason that this board exists, and all for the sake of accusation, and the resultant in-house fighting. I've done quite a bit of thinking about this today, and considering the number of threads, and that the general tone of the discussion seems to be non-solution based, i have to wonder what exactly the agenda really is here. Perhaps there is more to this, than meets the eye.

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11-30-2006, 08:33 PM

Posted By: joe brennanAmen People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

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11-30-2006, 08:41 PM

Posted By: Steve DawsonThank you Leon! You're a good man <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Steve

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11-30-2006, 08:49 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)The bottom line is that if you know it's one of "those" threads then you don't have to read it. This will run its course and be done with and maybe we'll have all learned a little bit from it. I still think a periodic forum that includes auction house and grading card reps would be kind of informative and interesting. Find a topic and let them answer but don't beat them up for telling us like it is or else we'll run the risk of not feeling welcome. You have to hand it to Doug Allen and Steve Verkman, Barry and anyone else from the industry that came on board to answer questions.

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12-01-2006, 04:25 AM

Posted By: barrysloateLeon- you did the right thing by redirecting the discussion to a single thread so that we can regain some focus. With that out of the way, I will say I do not like the state of affairs on Network54. What could ostensibly be a project to help clean up some of the bad things that go on in the hobby has degenerated into what always seems to happen here- the personal attacks. There are so many people attacking so many other people, throwing out slanderous statements and cutting each other down, and so many others totally fed up with the direction of each of these threads, that I am beginning to think the board will implode. Leon, I know you like to let discussions evolve on their own and you do not like to censor them, but I think you have lost control. Your response has always been that things will cool down, and they do for a time, only to always start up again with all hell breaking loose. One thing I have learned about this board is no matter what the topic, everybody has a different opinion and is not afraid to shove that opinion down the throat of the first guy who doesn't agree with it. I think it's time to do a little soul searching here and decide if the board can survive if every controversial topic is going to end in a bar room brawl.

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12-01-2006, 04:32 AM

Posted By: DaveWhile some of the "bitching" does seem to get repetitive...I honestly don't think there is much of a way for Leon or anyone else to control it. This is basically a "chat room", as much as I hate that term. Not just this site, but any site you go on there are always going to be arguements that break out. Main reason is this is the internet. It is fantasy land. Most of the guys here that like to bitch and argue and stir things up would be quite different in person IMO, maybe even a little meek. But, as long as this is the internet, and people can be more brazen...then thats whats going to happen. The ONLY way it will stop on here is if Leon decided to give specific daily topics for everyone to join in on....non controversial topics...and that would not be much of a free speech forum. I think Leon can only do so much...I think everyone looking to Leon to stop what can't be stopped also gets a little insane. IMO Leon is a great guy, nice as hell since I've been around, but he's a board moderator, not anybody's daddy. Everyone here (I think) is an adult, and to expect Leon to always step in and stop fighting is just not prudent. Besides, last I remember Leon still had a day job...Boys will be boys.... *edited to say, I myself have gotten caught up in the past with T206King...it happens, I have no ill will towards T206King or anyone else. Arguements break out, get out of hand, and then dissapear at some point into the lost threads

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12-01-2006, 04:49 AM

Posted By: Joe D.thank you leon.

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12-01-2006, 05:26 AM

Posted By: AlanI think this song sums it up... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s04MUjL-HmI" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s04MUjL-HmI</a>

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12-01-2006, 05:39 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblittfor the services you provide.....lock baby lock..........

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12-01-2006, 06:06 AM

Posted By: MikeI get so tired of the bickering and fighting and name calling. It is pointless. There are infinite opinions, and thoughts on this suject, I have mine. My opinion on this subject will never change. Reading a hundred posts on a specific thread, will not change my mind, only bore me to tears. And I learn nothing....Thanks for locking these pointless, endless, and meaningless threads. I am a collector. Not a dealer. I buy what I want, and I pay what I think is a reasonable price. I won't buy an altered card, and I do not alter cards. I trust my judgement. I do own one card that has been altered. And I know that. It is a 34 Goudey Gehrig. It had a couple creases knocked out of it, and had the grade raised two levels. A masterful job. No one in this forum would ever know, by looking at it. I' m not selling it. And If I did I would tell the buyer. But I digress. lets talk about something else for a change. We all know altering goes on, and it will never change. So why debate it endlessly...tired of it. No amount of policing will ever stop it.