Update on Stolen Cards [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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11-21-2006, 05:16 PM

Posted By: Doug AllenI am pleased to announce that a portion of the cards stolen over a week ago have been recovered! Early indication is that a good amount of the Topps cards and regional issues are back home where they belong. None of the pre-war cards have been returned but I am pretty sure they will turn up. Actually they are easier to locate than the 50's issues. We have called every hobby shop and pawn shop in the area. The support we have gotten has cast a pretty wide net. Anyways keep on the look out for the Cracker Jacks, M116's, M101s etc. We will keep you updated. Thanks again for all your support!!! All the best, Doug

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11-21-2006, 05:26 PM

Posted By: barrysloateIt's rare when stolen material is recovered. That is certainly good news.

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11-21-2006, 05:38 PM

Posted By: leonHey Doug, That's great news. I think I was slacking a little and only bumped the other thread a few times. I will try to keep this one up on the first page for another week or so......Please be sure to let us know of any other news.....best regards and good luck !!

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11-21-2006, 07:34 PM

Posted By: barry arnoldGreat news!!! Do keep us posted. We continue to keep our eyes on the lookout. all the best, Barry

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11-22-2006, 02:42 AM

Posted By: John SDoug, Your efforts are definitely appreciated by all collectors. Having a collection stolen that has taken most of a lifetime to build would be an absolute nightmare. This is great news.

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11-22-2006, 03:20 AM

Posted By: bruce dorskind Who were the thieves? How were they caught? Let's hope they go to prison and suffer greatly for at least 15 years. Make sure the local government puts them away in high security prison for a long., long time. We need to treat criminals like criminals and make sure they are kept out of society for as long as the courts will allow. Why we have so many criminals on parole in this country or why we don't move to one strike and you;re out is beyond comprehension. I was pleased to see a coin dealer in Ohio who defrauded the state will go away for at least 15 years. Good job Doug....Care to tell us how the crime was solved?

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11-22-2006, 07:09 AM

Posted By: Josh AdamsBruce, Easy there big fella! You might want to consult your Eight Amendment to the United States Constitution. Glad to hear this collector got some of his cards back. Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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11-22-2006, 07:21 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJosh- what is the Eighth Amendment? I'm guessing something to do with cruel and unusual punishment. Bruce tends to take strong positions on certain issues.

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11-22-2006, 07:38 AM

Posted By: Josh AdamsBarry, "Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." 15 years for swiping a guy's baseball card collection seems a little excessive. Just trying to lighten the mood here! But this is definately a feel good thread with a happy ending! Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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11-22-2006, 08:09 AM

Posted By: David SmithJosh, I think Bruce is on the right track here. I mean, the guy whose collection was stolen is in his late 80's. He freaking bought the Goudy packs as a kid and pulled the cards out!! So, he has been a life long collector and put these sets together over a long time. Having his collection stolen is having a part of his life stolen. It's not like some rich guy who goes to shows and buys on eBay and puts a set together in 6 months or a year. This was a LIFE times work. So, the punishment should be more extreme. I don't know if you know of anybody who has had a lifetime's work taken away but I do. When I was in college, I had a part-time job in a Mom and Pop toy store in a small, touristy town. The couple was elderly. The man didn't talk about it much but he had once owned a carnival scene with who knows how many pieces that he had hand carved over the years. The figures were all to the same scale and intricate, or so I have been told because I never saw the set. The scene was already donated to a museum but had not been delivered because the gentleman had a few pieces left to carve. Well, one night there was a short in the old buildings electrical system and a fire started and, well, you can guess the rest. Everyone who knew the man said after the loss of his circus, he was not the same. There was a part of him that was gone. So, again, I believe punishment should be more harsh considering the circumstances in this case of stolen ball cards. David

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11-22-2006, 08:19 AM

Posted By: sagardThe punishment should be based on the value of the merchandise stolen for the most part. This guy probably stole at least a quarter million dollars worth of cards, the punishment if they are ever caught should reflect that.

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11-22-2006, 08:23 AM

Posted By: barrysloateRobbery is a felony and if the thieves are caught they will be prosecuted and could face jail time. However, I doubt the judge will impose a harsher sentence because baseball cards were stolen, as opposed to say cash, jewelry, a painting, or anything else. We may value baseball cards highly but to a judge it's just another criminal act.

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11-22-2006, 09:52 AM

Posted By: SteveGreat news indeed. Also, fwiw vintage jewlery was also stolen. The value of the otems should determine what (if any) punishment the thief (or thieves) get. Just because they are cards does not mean a light sentence. They could have stolen tiddly winks. the law does not care what is stolen it cares about value. Steve

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11-22-2006, 10:13 AM

Posted By: BobIf they are first time offenders, they will likely get a suspended sentence, probation, restitution and if restitution is paid up front (if there remains any) no community service or jail time, fine and costs. They will have a felony on their records until 5 years later when it will be expunged from their records on a showing of no further trouble. They can then have their voting rights and right to own a firearm restored. The only caveat is if they are shown to have broken in to a "habitable" dwelling (i.e. home) to commit the theft. In that case in many states, prison time is mandatory but with parole they should be back on the streets in 6 months to 18 months. I agree with Bruce, though, if they were MY cards, I'd like to see them placed in pillory and stocks or introduced to couple of guys named Killer and Bubba in the pen.

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11-22-2006, 10:32 AM

Posted By: CatIt would be nice to know the story. Doug Allen didn't say the crime was solved. He stated the cards "were recovered."

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11-22-2006, 11:17 AM

Posted By: AnonymousI remember i was watching an episode of the show Prison Break on fox and one kid who was locked up for 8 years or something said he lifted some of his friends dads baseball cards for a few exta bucks, and turns out one was worth 200,000 grand the t206 wagner. So he got hit with eight years for grand larceny. Whoops

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11-22-2006, 04:10 PM

Posted By: Paul Moss"Why we have so many criminals on parole in this country or why we don't move to one strike and you;re out is beyond comprehension." YES! Though leniency should be shown for minor crimes with justice metered out on the spot. For instance, overtime parking - a public flogging. Just equip every metermaid with a ticket book and a cat o' nine tails. Then again, I'm sure some here will be deliberately violating this law for a freebie. Sure beats (sorry for that word usage) paying the Dungeon Mistress a deuce every time the need strikes (again, sorry for the word usage). Thank the stars we have unlimited monies to house all these rascals in the appropriate institutions. For heaven's sakes, we already have more people in the prison system than China! Fact! As a matter of fact, we have more people in the hoosegow than the post Stalin Soviet Union ever had at one time. Lemme guess, someone here owns stock in private prison corporations that are utilized to house the overflow from our current bloated system.

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11-23-2006, 06:44 AM

Posted By: hangman Doug, DONT KEEP IT A SECRET ! whats the dillio ? tell us how it went down ?

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11-23-2006, 07:39 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldSociety wants all criminals locked away. Society does not want to pay for that expense. THAT is one of the big reasons criminals are probated or paroled. I don't doubt that everyone who whines about criminals not serving their time are also folks who got upper bracket republican tax cuts and are folks who still want lower taxes. They can't have both.

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11-23-2006, 07:55 AM

Posted By: JayFrank--We might be able to afford more prisons and still maintain current tax levels if we did away with the pork barrel spending that seems more rampant than ever. Your neighbor Senator Byrd is the king of that. Allowing the line item veto could eliminate some of the earmarks that waste all our money. Spending less on the war would also be good but that is a seperate can or worms that I would rather not open.

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11-23-2006, 07:56 AM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Wouldn't it be nice to have a criminal justice system that actually does what it's supposed to do. It's good news to hear that part of the cards were recovered because that would indicate that there are a few leads that could lead to the recovery of the rest of the material.

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11-23-2006, 08:41 AM

Posted By: bruce Dorskind Frank If it were not for the Republicans, most of us could only afford PSA 3 cards and creased T 206's and Goudeys While no party is perfect, the Democrats are the party of the displaced, disenfranchised, and left wing liberals who are welcome to protecting the rights of terrorists, card theives and drug dealers. Remember this country is about life, liberty and the protection of propety and criminals violate all of those rights...and must pay the ultimate price for their crimes. Bruce

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11-23-2006, 09:00 AM

Posted By: JoshI know this is not the proper venue for my statement, but neither is Bruce's uninformed rant. It is completely uncalled for. I am tired of people of his ilk who make the tired statement that democrats "protect terrorists." That is probably the most ignorant and downright foolish thing I have ever heard from anyone. But it seems to be the rally cry lately. Bruce, you'd be best to keep your political thoughts and misinformed statements to yourself. To honestly think that one political party would place the nation at risk is beyond comprehension. Perhaps you could put an "intelligent and cohesive thought" at the top of "America's Toughest Want List." Josh Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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11-23-2006, 09:05 AM

Posted By: barrysloateBruce- for someone who is so well educated you don't seem to understand how things work. I promised Leon I wouldn't discuss politics on the board but it upsets me when I see such a silly post that has no grasp of reality. It is more of a rant than an educated response. Leon, how am I doing <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-23-2006, 09:15 AM

Posted By: leonYou are doing fine as always. I wrote a long winded response to Bruce too, a few minutes ago, but didn't push the respond button.....what's the use? You just can't say idiotic things and earn respect. Bruce- you might want to give a little more thought to what you say sometimes. As an ex-felon of over 20 yrs ago (possession of drugs..and I got exactly what I deserved...short prison time) I am glad you weren't my judge. I would still be in prison, with no family, no wonderful little girl.....and wouldn't have been doing a lot of volunteer work the last 10 years....and wouldn't have paid lot's of taxes the last 20 yrs..... Punishment should fit the crime and we need to rehabilitate ex-felons/prisoners so they have some kind of occupation to make an honest living. The answer is NOT to throw away the key to most criminals...Don't get me wrong...I think we should be very hard on aggravated offenses and crimes against people..especially criminals that hurt someone or terrorize someone. If the thieves are caught, that stole the cards, they should get punishment based on their crime and their criminal history, or lack thereof..... take care

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11-23-2006, 09:23 AM

Posted By: JayBruce--It isn't the Democrats who protect terrorists; there are good Democrats just like there are bad Republicans. The organization I could do without is the ACLU.

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11-23-2006, 09:33 AM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Jay, Are you saying the ACLU hasn't "A CLUe" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-23-2006, 09:44 AM

Posted By: Brian C. DanielsBush: " we must stay the course!" Clinton: " we must stay the intercourse!" ( that's a joke for T-bob <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ) Brucey fails to realize he is a decendant of Adam and has the same sin nature. We have ALL sinned which of course includes Bruce. Pride is a biggy but the value of a man can be measured by how many show up at his funeral~ BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-23-2006, 09:49 AM

Posted By: barrysloateLeon summed up exactly what I wanted to add to this thread: Not all the so-called political arguments we have had on this board have been about Democrats vs. Republicans, or right wingers vs. liberals. I think the issue that pushes everybody's button is the stupid post. I will accept anybody's point of view- and I think most know I am a "liberal" Democrat and will wear that as a badge of honor for the rest of my life (I don't consider the term "liberal" an insult, to me it is a compliment)- but I abhor stupid, ill conceived responses. And Bruce, I think a lot of the things you say are purely for shock value and just to draw attention to yourself. And there are others who do the same. Say something intelligent and a positive discussion is likely to follow. Arguments on this board and in life (is Net54 part of real life?) are caused by silly inflammatory statements.

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11-23-2006, 09:53 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanA few things made me laugh; as much as I'm tempted to respond fully I'll instead just post these thoughts: 1) Bruce lists, in order, his worst categories of criminals and card thieves are behind terrorists but ahead of drug dealers. The man clearly has his priorities straight. 2) Bruce, what were you referring to when you said that card thieves should pay the "ultimate price"? Death penalty or being forced to collect cards in PSA 6 and lower? 3) Leon, I knew there was a reason I liked you. Anyone who has spent any time wrapped up in the criminal justice system usually develops an oversized ability to empathize with his fellow man.

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11-23-2006, 09:56 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- Leon and I discussed this and we both feel the only just punishment for stealing baseball cards is beheading.

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11-23-2006, 09:59 AM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Jeff, Re: response 2 - I'm serving a life sentence....

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11-23-2006, 10:03 AM

Posted By: Jason Leveryone getting warmed up for the Thanksgiving fights around the dinner table?? Since we are on the Dems vs Reps topic, I just thought it would be fun to point out this little factoid: Did anyone notice that Playboy stock was up almost 10% the day after the Dems took the elections?

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11-23-2006, 10:20 AM

Posted By: barrysloateNo, it's not about Dems vs. Reps- it's about civility.

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11-23-2006, 10:26 AM

Posted By: ScottIngoldWow Bruce, I never thought someone would be more to the right of me on these boards. But thats even to intense for me. Card thieves and terror lumped together ?

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11-23-2006, 11:24 AM

Posted By: Peter ThomasThere are many fine people on this board who can only afford the cards we love in VG and less, and there is nothing wrong with that. When the time comes that I decide to sell my 8 T204 Johnson or my 9 T204 Ferris, I might check to see that they get a good home, but I will not check for party affilation.

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11-23-2006, 11:30 AM

Posted By: BcDand you sir are NO pedestrian card collector! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Happy Thanksgiving to you.... and let's be more political~ GO COWBOYS! ( where is David Vargha when you need em!) BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-23-2006, 11:41 AM

Posted By: JimB# of al-Qaeda and al-Qaeda type terrorists in Iraq before we invaded - close to 0 # of al-Qaeda and al-Qaeda type terrorists in Iraq today - 10.000s Delared reason for invading Iraq - weapons of mass destruction # of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - 0 # of dead in Iraq as a result of fighting - estimates range from 50,000-650,000. If the cessation of senseless killing like that of 9/11 is our goal, then we seem to be going about it in a pretty ineffective way. Honest appraisal of Bush's policies - Priceless JimB

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11-23-2006, 11:47 AM

Posted By: Peter_SpaethHe who does not learn from the past is condemned to repeat it. The next slogan we probably will hear is "Peace with honor."

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11-23-2006, 11:54 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI found Bruce's favorite band. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-z2D9lo9-8" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-z2D9lo9-8</a>

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11-23-2006, 12:19 PM

Posted By: Patrick McMenemyBruce....thanks for clearing things up. Whenever I see another one of your posts, I'll know the WE means the Republician Party. Patrick

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11-23-2006, 12:28 PM

Posted By: bruce dorskind Barry Sloate and I have known each other for more than 20 years. We have always been "good hobby friends." Whilst one can understand Barry's ultra liberal views. Said views have no impact on our ability to talk about baseball material, Barry and other Board Members should know that my intention is never to "shock anyone" or present a different view point for the sake of being different. Rather, the responses I post are a reaction to sacarastic remarks about "the unfair tax system" or attacks on a government that supports a position that is different from that of the person who is posting. My only point is that crime must be punished and the law must either be followed or changed ( in accordance with the Constitutiion). The other point that is quite interesting is the call from collectors who believe that the rich (whoever that may be) are ruining the hobby and forcing prices to go too high. When these same "pure long time collectors" sell their cards, they tend to ask well above market and/or sell through the largest auction houses. Everyone who decides to sell an item should be able to realize the maximun value for said item. To state that they will only sell to such and such because of the nature of his collection or his/her political views serves no purpose other than to garner a reaction from other Board Members and cost the seller a great deal of money. One final point...Jim Blumenthal is a well respected collector and an internationally known Tibetan scholar. He should know better than to imply that the US policy in Iraq is solely responsible for all the terrorists in that country. Jim, yours is but another example of left wing journalism that distorts the facts. I am proud to be an American..proud to be the ultra conservative in my views and proud of my efforts to build my baseball collection. I will never back down because someone disagrees with me. I am not a great believer in compromise. And not a great believer in second chances. More than 70% of all violent crimes are committed by someone who had served time. Thus, Leon, you are correct that if I were a criminal court judge, sentences would likely have been much longer. Sometimes it makes sense never to forgive and never to forget. Bruce

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11-23-2006, 12:31 PM

Posted By: JoshHot. Air. Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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11-23-2006, 12:51 PM

Posted By: barrysloateBruce- sorry, but have to agree with Jim B. here. We have created the breeding ground for terrorists in Iraq. It was a horrible dictatorship when Saddam was in power, now it's just as horrible but in a different way. We've ruined that country and it is beyond salvation but getting rid of Saddam is something we can all agree was a good thing. After that, it's a lost cause. There will be sectarian fighting there forever more.

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11-23-2006, 01:18 PM

Posted By: sagardI am a conservative by nature but to continue blindly supporting the Admin (who is anything but conservative) isn't the right approach either. It is a sad state when the lefties are widely considered the more financially responsible of the two parties. Oh well at least we spin the wheels now for two years while the public remembers why the Dems are so inept.

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11-23-2006, 01:40 PM

Posted By: BobIf it were not for the Republicans, most of us could only afford PSA 3 cards and creased T 206's and Goudeys While no party is perfect, the Democrats are the party of the displaced, disenfranchised, and left wing liberals who are welcome to protecting the rights of terrorists, card theives and drug dealers.> Wow, when did Donald Rumsfield start reading the board?<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Bruce, take off the blinders, there are a lot of hard working, tax paying citizens in the Democratic party and many are politically moderate and some are conservative but who believe Bush has betrayed them. I guess after the elections you are now one of the displaced, yourself, as your man Dubbya got a resounding thrashin' BTW, guess you noticed that your man has agreed to sit down with the Iranians and Syrians and discuss a cooperative means of extricating ourselves from the mess in Iraq. Must have made you queasy since those are terrorist hotbeds and members of Dubbya's Axis if Evil. I hate card thieves as much as you but I am also bothered by the corporate thieves who steal and plunder on a mammoth scale.You won't find any left wing liberals in that group. Ask the people whose life savings' were ripped away by the white collar weasels how they feel. The words of John Kennedy are as true today as they were 44 years ago, "When the rights of one man are threatened, the rights of all men are diminished." All Americans, left or right or center, Republicans, Democrats or Independents should continue the good fight against the erosion of personal liberties in this country even when veiled in the "feel good" language of the Patriot Act. Happy Thanksgiving Bruce. tbob P.S. Born in Middle America and a Christian, just in case you were wondering.

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11-23-2006, 01:41 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Talk about digression... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> from a discussion about stolen cards to a discussion about political southpaws... now, back to our main programming... What about them Cubbies...

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11-23-2006, 01:44 PM

Posted By: Trevor HockingWOW Come on guys. This thread started out as a GREAT thread letting us know about someone getting back something we would all hate to lose and would be very happy to get a bit of it back. Now it turns into a political battle. I have to say this is the worst hijacked thread EVER. And people wonder why companies like Mastro or the people working for them don't post here that often, just look what happens to there threads. Come on guys grow up and remember this hobby is suppose to remind us to have FUN and to take the blood pressure DOWN!!!

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11-23-2006, 01:47 PM

Posted By: Trevor HockingJinks Fred we had the same thought as I am sure a lot of this boards readers do. We are on a BASEBALL CARD Chat board and this thread started out very very good!!!!

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11-23-2006, 02:05 PM

Posted By: Richard SimonIn response to the post from Bruce Dorskind, just read my first signature at the bottom of this post and I think it wholeheartedly applies. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

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11-23-2006, 02:18 PM

Posted By: barrysloateBob- very well put, I couldn't have said it better myself. In the spirit of Thanksgiving, regardless of our political affiliation, don't we all really want the same thing? Peace in the world, an end to the war, a little money in the bank, a comfortable life, and a few baseball cards to boot? Then why is this country so divisive? Why does everyone feel that only their way of thinking is right, and that the guy who has a different opinion is just an idiot? I will never figure that out. And Trevor, this is not nearly the worst thread ever. My vote for the worst ever was the dinner in NYC one. That one was in the Twilight Zone.

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11-23-2006, 02:27 PM

Posted By: Trevor HockingOk Barry I will give you that one for sure!!!! But come on lets give the political agendas the office (bad pun intended) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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11-23-2006, 02:43 PM

Posted By: JoannTo further hijack the thread, a few comments for Bruce. I am pretty much as ultra liberal as it gets, do not consider it an insult, and plan to stay this way. I think your latest post, while I don't agree with it, was well thought out and well presented - at least enough that I can read it and conclude there are different world views. I also note lately that the "we" has been dropped in almost all contexts, except for card transactions. I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but I have and I appreciate it - it has to take a conscious effort to do that. Finally, I will completely agree with your post that liberals want to protect the rights of terrorists, card thieves and drug dealers. Yep. Right on. You bet I do. Proudly. I would never condone the ACTIONS of those groups of individuals - the actions are crimes and the people criminals. But as a good American, and as a conscientous (sp?) American, I would absolutely adovocate for their rights to the fairness of the sytem, under the Constitution, and for every other right this country stands for. Advocating for the rights of the unpopular, as well as the popular, is one of the most partriotic things a person can do, in my opinion. Joann

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11-23-2006, 03:05 PM

Posted By: JimBI think it is always important to remember that good people can disagree. As Barry mentioned, most of us have very similar aspirations. I would like to address a couple of points that Bruce directed toward my comments. I will preface this with saying that I have had several very enjoyable conversations with Bruce about baseball cards and have found him to be very friendly, knowledgable, and dedicated to the hobby. I hope our differences of opinion on politics do not interfere with our hobby friendship. However I feel I must address a couple of points he raised in his comments directed towards me. >One final point...Jim Blumenthal is a well respected collector and an internationally >known Tibetan scholar. He should know better than to imply that the US policy >in Iraq is solely responsible for all the terrorists in that country. Jim, yours is >but another example of left wing journalism that distorts the facts. I did not claim or intend to imply that US policy is solely responsible for all the terrorists in Iraq but I do think it is quite fair to claim that US policy has been the largest single factor. Had we not invaded Iraq, they simply would not be there in anywhere near the numbers of terrorists in Iraq that there are today. And many (both Iraqis and foreigners in Iraq) are certainly new to terrorism since our invasion - no doubt enraged by our arrogance. Second, Bruce, you claim that I have distorted facts. Can you be more specific? I do not see a single distortion in anything I have posted. I just heard on the radio today that the UN announced that 3,709 Iraqis were killed in the month of October. That is more than were killed in America on 9/11. I am of the opinion that every needless human death is a tragedy. Having brown skin or being born in the Middle East does not make their deaths any less tragic. They all have mothers and brothers and sisters and friends who mourn their deaths. The needless killing that is a result of US policy is a terrible shame. Yes, I do think US policy has played a major roll in these awful events, but any good scholar knows that things are not as simple as we would like them to be. There are certainly other factors. You are right on that count Bruce. I love this country, but I have been very ashamed of many of the actions it has taken around the world in the past few years. Happy Thanksgiving, JimB

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11-23-2006, 03:08 PM

Posted By: Bob"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow. OK, on with the card discussion.....

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11-23-2006, 03:31 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, you don't have to be ashamed to be an American. Honest. And why are the lives of Islamic fundamentalists worth the same as American lives when they care so little for theirs that they are willing to blow themselves up with smiles on their faces? And I thought that upon blowing themselves up they end up in heaven to meet up with 72 virgins? And why do you say that their families mourn - normally their families are congratulated after they blow themselves up in the name of Jihad - I've watched videos of their mothers proudly talking about their sons and openly wishing that their other children will blow themselves up in the name of Jihad. I would think that their families would share the same occasional shame that you feel about being an American.

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11-23-2006, 03:54 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAnd furthermore...the 3709 dead Iraqis you refer to are those killed by other Muslims, no? Jim, you claim that these murders "are the result of US policy." I wasn't aware that American troops forced Muslims to blow other Muslims up or torture them to death by the thousands. Interesting that Muslims are more likely to kill Muslims than Americans are to kill Muslims. I feel deep shame for these Muslims that would kill each other in such a needless fashion.

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11-23-2006, 04:10 PM

Posted By: Frank Wakefield'Time has come,' the Walrus said, 'To talk of many things: Of shoes and ships and sealing wax.... and baseball cards. Time has come to lock this thread. I wish all a safe Thanksgiving.

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11-23-2006, 04:14 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldAnd Joann, please email me. Frank W.

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11-23-2006, 04:29 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliDoug, I am SO glad that the collector got some of his cards back! He must be elated. I can only imagine what it would be like to have a collection that took so long to assemble disappear like that. He must have felt so violated. I can only hope that if something like that happened to me, it would generate the same degree of interest that this thread has. I hadn't checked into this thread for the bulk of the day, but when I logged in this evening and saw all the posts, I immediately scrolled to the bottom to add my response so that I could be quickly counted among the supporters. It's great to see everyone pull together in support of a fellow collector like this. It sort of restores my faith in humanity when people from all walks of life can all pull together in solidarity when we remain focused on a topic of common interest, like baseball cards. Best of luck to him in finding the rest of his cards and catching the bad guys. -Al

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11-23-2006, 04:36 PM

Posted By: JimBJeff, I never said I was ashamed to be an American. I love this country. I said that I was ashamed of some of the actions it has taken around the world in the past few years. Jeff, you cannot honestly believe that because some Muslims are deluded enough to think that they will go to heavan if they blow themselves up that the hundreds of thousands of relatives and friends of dead Iraqis, most of whom were not suicide bombers, are not mourning. The discounting of all lives lost amounts to nothing less than racism. I am not defending the actions of the terrorists or suicide bombers. I have a very hard time understanding where they are coming from and in my quieter moments I find myself developing feelings and prejudices that I wish did not arise in my mind. But to deny that US policy in Iraq has not created the instability which has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, many just as innocent as those who have died on our soil, is to simply live with blinders on. I wish I could just keep my mouth closed, but.... JimB

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11-23-2006, 04:45 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisJEFF L You are the true voice of reason on this Forum. And, I say that with all the sincerity in me. Since we got rid of the Sadaam regime the fine people in Israel are certainly living with less fear from terrorists. Sadaam would give terrorist families 10's of 1000's of dollars if they offered up their children as suicide bombers to murder innocent Jews. These terrorists exist in a culture of DEATH ! I just came back from visiting the land of my family....Greece. I have been there many times. The Greeks know how to live. They have always enjoyed a vibrant LIFE. And, this is why the Greek culture has survived for 4000 years. The people who desire DEATH will not survive. God put us on this beautiful earth to live our lives fully and to do so with enthusiasm (a Greek word meaning "with God"). Jeff....I would like to meet you some day.....and perhaps you can critique my ongoing T206 surveys, or my Old Cardboard article on the 1949 Leaf BB set. Have a very Happy Thanksgiving. TED Z

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11-23-2006, 05:05 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, the great majority of Palestinians support jihad and homicide bombing - not just a mere few. The leaders of the Palestnian territories, Syria, Iran and Lebanon (and yes, I consider Hezbollah and Iran/Syria to be the 'leaders' of Lebanon) also support the blowing up of Muslims in the name of Allah. To suggest that a small majority of Muslims in these countries supports suicide bombing is a distortion of fact, period. As for the innocents killed in America and Iraq you should at least appreciate that all of the innocents killed in America and the great majority of the innocents killed in Iraq were done at the hands of Muslims. At some point people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of pointing fingers at any convenient scapegoat. And nations which proudly admit that they favor cultures of death over cultures celebrating life are usually the ones behind the most mayhem in the world I would respectfully suggest. Ted, I had posted my comments on your Leaf article on another thread but I think you were away; I'll send you an email. And thanks for your kind words.

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11-23-2006, 05:07 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI agree with all that America is still the greatest country in the world, but sadly in the last six years we have gone terribly astray. On the eve of Thanksgiving let us wish peace to everyone in every country on earth and let's hope the war will come to an end and the troops will soon come home. And Ted and I are on the same page, as we share our love for the beautiful country of Greece. I have spent much time there and it is a paradise. Everyone...please have a great Thanksgiving, and good health and happiness to all.

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11-23-2006, 05:35 PM

Posted By: ScottIngoldAs usual Jeff has hit it pretty well.

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11-23-2006, 05:38 PM

Posted By: JimBJeff, Please do not put words in my mouth. I try to be very precise with my words when discussing topics like this. I said nothing about Iran, Syria, Lebanon, or Palestine. I talked about the grieving families and friends of innocent Iraqis. I agree that there is a very unsettling number of Palestinians who support acts of terror and are committed to disrupting any peace process as was witnessed by 70% of Palestinians voting Hamas into power in their last democratic election. If I were Palestinian, I imagine I would be ashamed of the acts of Palestinian terrorists as well. I not biased in my disappointment in humanity. I find suicide bombers and Abu Grahib torturers both to be dispicable. I would rather not continue this discussion, both because I don't think we will come to agreement and because it has nothing to do with the intent of this forum. Why don't we all pray for peace and have a nice Thanksgiving holiday. JimB

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11-23-2006, 06:02 PM

Posted By: leonI think we should get back to cards. I hope there is peace as much as anyone. I hope these crooks that stole the cards get caught and the cards returned...and last but not least I too hope we all have a very safe, happy Thanksgiving....and with that thought please don't go off topic in this thread anymore. Forewarned is fair warned. best regards

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11-23-2006, 06:36 PM

Posted By: CatBy the time us West Coast folks sit down, read the board, and start tracking with these emotionally charged threads, Leon either Locks them or gives them the kiss of death if there are off-topic posts... a real buzz kill. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Not that I really had anything to add. ________________ <a href="http://www.audiocomedy.net/soundboards/jacket.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.audiocomedy.net/soundboards/jacket.shtml</a>