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11-06-2006, 11:40 AM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesA few years later, a different World Series. Deciding game. Extra Innings. Tie game. Man on second, the slowest man on the team: Muddy Ruel. A ground ball through the infield. Ruel scores. Series over! But wait. Ruel scored from second on a ground ball through the infield? Not even a throw home! I smell a rat. 1924 World Series Yes, Walter Johnson deserved it. But unless I have something wrong, this is fiction.

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11-06-2006, 12:12 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaEarl McNeely hit the ball to third base and it took a bad hop over Giants 3rd baseman Freddy Lindstrom's head. I've never seen anything anywhere that would suggest that this game was not on the up and up. Muddy Ruel may have been slow (he did steal 7 bases though in 1924), but I can envision many scenarios where even a slow player can score on a hit that takes a bad hop over the third basemans head....do we know how shallow the left fielder was playing? How close to the line was Lindstrom playing? Did McNeely's hit go down only as a single because it was a game winning hit when under other circumstances the hit may have been a double?

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11-06-2006, 12:38 PM

Posted By: Max WederGil I haven't read anything about the ending not being on the up and up. However, after reading your post, I decided to search Proquest for articles on the 1924 World Series (a benefit of SABR <a href="http://www.sabr.org" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.sabr.org</a>, but only until the end of the year, unfortunately). I've only started looking, but interestingly enough, an October 2 article in the Washington Post mentions that Jimmy O'Connell, OF and Cozy Dolan, coach were banned from the World Series. They weren't banned for attempting a WS fix, but for trying to bribe a Philadelphia player in the ending of the National League Pennant race. Max

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11-06-2006, 12:52 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesI too have never read anything which indicated that this series outcome was questionable. Jimmy O'Connell was just starting his career and Cozy Dolan was McGraw's right hand man. Neither of these guys had the means to fund the bribe attempt. The account which I have read, indicated that Irish Meusel charged the ball, fielded it cleanly, put it in his glove and ran off of the field.

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11-06-2006, 01:49 PM

Posted By: dennis"In Game 7 the Senators fell behind 3-1, but caught a break in the eighth when Harris' apparently routine ground ball hit a pebble and took a bad hop over Giants third baseman Fred Lindstrom. Two runners scored on the play, tying the contest at three. Walter Johnson came in to pitch the ninth, and the score was still 3-3 when Washington came up in the 12th. With the bases loaded and nobody out, Earl McNeely shot another grounder at Lindstrom, and again the ball took a bad hop, scoring Muddy Ruel with the Series-ending run."

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11-06-2006, 02:05 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesFrom the Elysian Fields Quarterly: Bucky and the Big Train By Bruce Markusen and Ron Visco Earl McNeely then hit a solid grounder toward Lindstrom at third, a tailor-made double-play ball. For the second time in the inning, fate took a hand. "Whatever McNeely's ground ball hit, a pebble or a divot or a minefield, it took a freak high hop over Lindstrom's head into the outfield," wrote Shirley Povich. Left fielder Irish Meusel, anticipating that Lindstrom would field the grounder, got a late start getting to the ball. Incredibly, when he did reach it, he made no throw but put it in his glove and ran off the field as Ruel, the slowest man on the Senators, rounded third and steamed toward home. With Johnson standing on second base, Ruel scored the winning run. Washington and Walter Johnson had taken the victory 4–3 in twelve innings, and with it the world's

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11-06-2006, 02:14 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThere were 7 errors committed in that game -3 by the Giants and 4 by the Senators. 2 each on the repective teams shortstops. I haven't read anything about Meusel holding the ball, but looking at the box score shows that there were a lot of players that switched positions throughout the game. You now have my interest piqued Gil.

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11-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Posted By: BobThe "goats" were not Lindstrom but Hank Gowdy, Travis Jackson and McGraw. Gowdy circled under Ruehl's pop up, an easy play, and stepped on his catcher's mask. His foot stuck and he tried to kick it off, when that didn't work, he lunged and missed the ball. Given a second chance, Ruel blasted a double. With one out and a runner on second, Walter Johnson had to bat to stay in the game and hit a grounder to Jackson who in his eagerness mishandled the ball. That should have been the 3rd out. Instead, McGraw made two crucial decisions which qualified him, not Lindstrom as the goat: first, he kept Irish Meusel in left rather than putting the strong armed Ross Youngs in left with right handed dead pull hitter Earl McNeely at the plate (McGraw had made this switch in the 11th with Osse Bluege at the plate and it worked); second and more damaging, fearing McNeely would bunt, he instructed Lindstrom to play even with the bag instead of deep and 12 feet off the line. The pebble was never found but the ball went over Lindstrom's head and Ruel trudged around to score. Meusel was late getting to the ball to his right and simply pocketed the ball when he saw he had no chance to get Ruel. Few blamed Lindstrom but the youngest player ever to appear in a World Series game drank himself in to unconciousness at the Giants' train rolled back in to New York that night.

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11-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Posted By: BobThe Merkle Boner, Merkle and Myers missing a foul pop up, Snodgrass' muff, Lindstrom's pebble. A different outcome on these 4 plays might have contributed to 4 more world championships for the "cursed" NY Giants. Their dynasty might have rivaled that of the Yankees had fate been kinder.

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11-06-2006, 03:12 PM

Posted By: Max WederI'm not sure what this means, but a week after the world series, Muddy was sailing to Europe with the Giants and White Sox, and breaking the ship's shuffleboard record <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="http://static.flickr.com/109/289922990_64b4affcd7.jpg">

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11-06-2006, 03:39 PM

Posted By: barrysloateHey Bob- Good to see you! Added to say what about the 2002 Giants. Shouldn't they have won the series, too?

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11-06-2006, 03:51 PM

Posted By: barrysloateAnd while we are at it, if McCovey's liner is six inches higher the 1962 Giants might have been champs, too. What is it with that franchise?

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11-06-2006, 04:13 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesI guess that whether Meusel could have thrown out Ruel, or even tried, is open to opinion, tbob, until additional evidence is available. However, as far as the potential for the Giants of that period rivaling the Yankees, that possibility would have required the Giants not giving away so many key players for nothing. That is, what was obtained for Hack Wilson, Rogers Hornsby and Lefty O'Doul? Nothing of value. How can a team afford to lose three players of that caliber? You can if you are getting Hubbell, Ott and Terry. But if you had these six, or reasonable trade value for them, you may have a chance to rival the Yankees of that era.

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11-06-2006, 04:44 PM

Posted By: dennisthe veteren burleigh grimes did not get along w/mcgraw so on February 11, 1928 he traded him to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Vic Aldridge. Grimes went on to win 25 the next season for pittsburgh,aldrige won 4 for NY and was out of baseball the next year.after winning 25 in 1929 grimes won 50 more in the next 3 years!

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11-06-2006, 04:50 PM

Posted By: MikeUmmm....electric vibrators? Just what kind of cruise was this?

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11-06-2006, 05:35 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesThe bribe which cost O'Connell his career (he wasn't just banned from the WS, he was thrown out of baseball), the '24 Series, giving Wilson to the Cubs on waivers (come on, McGraw ain't that stupid) trading yes, Grimes, Hornsby, O'Doul for nothing. A conspiricy theorist may conclude that McGraw was cashing out his career. There are many other examples, many to complex to easily describe here. But Im glad that I am gullible. And that I believe in the good in a person. Certainly, some think that not all of the actions of McGraw during this period were above board.

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11-07-2006, 10:13 AM

Posted By: BobMcGraw always felt letting Edd Roush get away was the stupidest thing he ever did. No one is even mentioning Roush who was a fantastic player and eventual no-brainer for the Hall of Fame. McGraw always claimed it was a clerical error that permitted Hack Wilson to be snatched away when the Giants failed to protect him. With his reputation for drinking you might wonder, as all his managers had a rough time dealing with him. When he went to the Cubs and did so well, everyone thought he had it under control but alas, he didn't. I think he died at a young age, didn't age?

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11-07-2006, 10:37 AM

Posted By: Mike CampbellThere was a book on Hack Wilson that came out about the year 2000. Very good. Next to the one out the same year on Waddell, one of the better Bio's. Hack Wilson died penniless at the age of 48 years, eight months and 27 days. Very sad story. The description of him, at the hospital, on his last day, will send shivers down your spine. I won't spoil it......read the book. It was written by Clifton parker. The book is called "Fouled Away" The Baseball tragedy of Hack Wilson"