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10-05-2006, 10:30 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>David and other photo buffs;<br /><br />Any thoughts on the authenticity of this blue-tint 8x10? <br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Shoeless-Joe-Jackson-Ty-Cobb-Wacter-Big-Train-Johnson_W0QQitemZ160035439560QQihZ006QQcategoryZ50 129QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/Shoeless-Joe-Jackson-Ty-Cobb-Wacter-Big-Train-Johnson_W0QQitemZ160035439560QQihZ006QQcategoryZ50 129QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a>

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10-05-2006, 11:16 PM
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Can't authenticate without seeing it in person, but there was a cyanotype <br />photographic process that existed during that era that produced blue and white,<br />instead of black and white images. I've seen a few cyanotype baseball real photo<br />postcards from the era, and I know Scott Forrest owns a cyanotype baseball cabinet<br />card.<br />

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10-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Patrick McMenemy</b><p>Robert Wood, the son of Smoky Joe Wood, had a bunch of copies made from the original one that he once owned. <br /><br />I happen to have a copy that looks identical to the one on ebay. The original was much larger.<br /><br />Patrick

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10-06-2006, 05:01 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I agree with Patrick- doesn't look right, and Bob Wood was always hawking his dad's image in one form or another. Probably a reprint. And considering an original is worth well into five figures and this sold for $300, I think the market agreed with that assessment.

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10-06-2006, 08:35 AM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p> I was highly suspicious the entire week. This seller doesn't accept Paypal. After some digging, found out this seller is tax delinquent($90K), in another State. (The tax lady asked me to tell the guy to, 'pay his darn bill').<br /><br /> Of course, there is no way of checking backgrounds 'til you've made the purchase.<br /><br /> Too many gigantic red flags here. I appreciate the guidance gents and will insist on a buyer protection form of payment.<br /><br /> <br />For David; Would you be willing to accept this and any other old photos for opinions?.. For a fee of course. (GAI once charged $80. and took many weeks.)<br /><br />I'm one EDITing fool this AM. <br /><br />I called the seller (number worked!) and told him that I will be paying through Visa. <br /><br />Called the HOF this AM. They have the same photo (It was a benefit game for Addie), and the photo dept staff wants to see a scan. They would be 'able to tell if it's fake'(uh huh). Also will send a scan of their example. I was surprised by their courtesy.<br /><br />Steve F

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10-06-2006, 10:58 AM
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>HOF Photo Department is a pleasure to deal with. Very nice people there.<br /><br />If it is a fake... I'm glad I didn't see that auction... because I would have been tempted to join the bidding. Doesn't eBay have some sort of protection against this? The listing calls it an original photo... not a print or a copy.<br /><br />If it is real... congrats - nice photo.<br /><br />

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10-06-2006, 11:01 AM
Posted By: <b>Rhys</b><p>I have owned hundreds of Cyanotype photos over the years, some sports and some not. I am not an expert but I would have to venture that by the 1910's they were absolutely on their way out the door. All the ones I have seen and still own are from about 1900-1907 or so and they were popular during that period. I highly doubt that a famous photographer like Van Oeyen would make several prints of this photo into Cyanotypes approximately 5-7 years after they were no longer a popular medium. Not only that, but I have probably seen at least 100-200 Van Oeyen originals over the years and NEVER seen him use a Cyanotype medium for a single photo before.<br /><br />Not a definitive answer, but all signs point to fake!<br /><br />Rhys

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10-06-2006, 01:13 PM
Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>Its a famous photo and well known because Cobb lost his Detroit uniform and is wearing a Cleveland uniform. If I remember right it was a game played for an Addie Joss memorial. Im not positive, as my memory is from when I was about 10 years old. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-06-2006, 01:54 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You are correct. That was taken at the Addie Joss memorial game.

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10-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Posted By: <b>martindl</b><p><br />Steve,<br />Did the seller tell you it was a blue tint/cyanotype photograph?<br /><br />The larger images appear blue in the scan but the frame also has a blue tint. The smaller image showing the copyright is probably closer to the images' real color i.e. while Rhys comments about Van Oeyen and cyanotypes is right, I don't think its a cyanotype.<br /><br />Is the copyright embossed or part of the image?

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10-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>Martin, I assumed it was blue. This seller is elusive. Now that you mention it, it is black. Reckon I didn't pick up on that.<br /><br />Finally found one -Lelands. This one is B/W... But it's cropped within the border differently. Highly noticable around the VanOeyen label and the catchers' left leg.<br /><br />Thankyou for the headsup.<br /><br />Now I'm even more daff'd. The Lelands $1,200. 8x10 shows less actual photograph than the possible reprint. I'll be busy for a few hours figger'n this out.<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=337&auctionid=505" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=337&auctionid=505</a>

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10-24-2006, 08:55 PM
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p> As advised by the board. This item, as is the seller, a fraud. Very thin stock, dot print with laser residue pattern, flat photog stamp, no gloss and failed the UV test... Paid by check <i>gulp</i>. Wish me luck.<br /><br /> Special thanks to David, Barry and others. I appreciate the time and energy.<br /><br />*It is black and white. Not Cyan as I initially believed.

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10-25-2006, 08:13 AM
Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>This might help from eBay if he doesn't refund your money -<br /><a href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/esppp-process.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/esppp-process.html</a><br /><br />Sean BH

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10-25-2006, 09:32 AM
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>I am aware of two originals of this photo. One was sold last year by Hunt Auctions for $51,750. The other one was sold (also by Hunt) eight years ago for $25,300. If this seller had an original, as he/she said, putting aside the wisdom of selling it on eBay as opposed to one of the major auction houses, the chances of him/her really being so stupid as to let it go for a few hundred dollars is probably about one in a million. Perhaps the greatest red flag that something is a fake is when a seller is willing to sell it for a minute fraction of its true worth, in this case less than 1%.