View Full Version : T4 Obak/PCL Experts out there
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10-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>I currently have my t4 melchoir for sale on ebay and I received an email from someone claiming he was told only 5 of each of the 175 possible player cabinets were produced. I've never heard this? Has anyone ever heard this?<br /><br />pete ullman
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10-20-2006, 01:49 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>No, I've never heard that, and I'm not sure how anybody could be that specific. Are you sure he didn't mean roughly 5 of each player is known (which seems kind of high, since I doubt that many T4's are around)? I can't think of any set where we know exactly how many of any card was produced.
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10-20-2006, 01:51 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>'82 Fleer Update.... 10,243,359 sets.... and that many rookies of Clemens....Puckett etc.... (sarcasm but maybe close?)
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10-20-2006, 01:55 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You left out my Puckett rookie. I didn't tell anyone I had one.
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10-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>thanks for responses barry...Leon. He said he was told by I believe Sotheby's...that 5 of each player were made...wierd!<br /><br />pete ullman
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10-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>I am constantly looking for Miller, San Francisco T4s. I think I have seen 2 or 3 others besides mine which is trimmed down to the oval.
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10-20-2006, 02:02 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If he was told by Sotheby's, forget about it. Nice bunch of folks, like them personally, but I don't know anybody there who is a T4 expert.
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10-20-2006, 02:32 PM
Posted By: <b>jP</b><p>People had to send coupons in to get these right ? Is it possible they were produced as they got orders for them,maybe not a high demand for back then, if so would this explain why they are considered scarce and only about 1/3 of them known to exist ?
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10-20-2006, 02:45 PM
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>jp...i agree with your reasoning there.<br /><br />pete ullman
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10-20-2006, 03:19 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Someone had to send 50 of these coupons to get a T4. The fact that you had to name a second choice in case they did not have the first leads me to beleive that they were not printed as they were ordered.<br /><br /><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/millerbr/bullet/cfront.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/millerbr/bullet/cback.jpg">
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10-20-2006, 03:29 PM
Posted By: <b>jP</b><p>Brian very good observation. hmmm makes me wonder now why exactly these bad boys are so few and rare. realistically was 50 coupons of obaks hard to send in back then ? is it possible people were to lazy to send them in or just were content with the cards they recv. in the cigarette packs.
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10-20-2006, 03:40 PM
Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>here's a link to the T4's in Lew's Novemeber 2005 auction with prices realized. Nice little write-up as well.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.oldjudge.com/archive/200511/baseball/t4/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.oldjudge.com/archive/200511/baseball/t4/</a><br /><br />P.S. I got two (2) emails from eBay today telling me that you had lowered the reserve. Did you in fact lower it twice or is it just another eBay foul-up?
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10-20-2006, 03:49 PM
Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>I noted that the coupon above is different from the coupon I have relative to the last line of text on the back of my coupon that is missing from the one above. Is anyone aware of other coupon variations? Thanks.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1161294557.JPG"> <br /><br /><br />edited to add name.
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10-20-2006, 03:51 PM
Posted By: <b>jP</b><p>ocjack, is the other side the same as the scan that Brian put up ? thx
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10-20-2006, 04:48 PM
Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>Here's the front of mine. I can't spot any differences. Maybe better eyes can. Let me know if you do. Thanks.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1161298094.JPG">
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10-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>noticed these expired dec.31, 1911. could be a reason for scarcity.<br /><br />was this the only year Obak offered the cabinets ? if not then each year probably had a similar exp.date for the respected years.<br /><br />Jack thanks for putting up the scan
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10-20-2006, 08:56 PM
Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Was talking to Mark Macrae about T4s at the National and he certainly knows his stuff. I would contact him, if he does not know the answer then noone does.<br /><br />Joshua
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10-20-2006, 10:37 PM
Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>Mark told me his views on T4s a while back. Hopefully I don't mess up the facts too much...<br /><br />The T4s were probably issued over multiple years. Mark mentioned seeing ads from a later time frame that required only 30(?), then 20(?) coupons to obtain a premium. Did they do this to get rid of left over premiums or because they weren't getting enough requests for premiums? Also, cards of the same player have picture cropping variations. This would lead one to believe that pictures were printed as requested.
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10-21-2006, 07:16 AM
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>There are slight differences in the fronts of the two coupons posted. For example, note the graphic used in the corners.
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10-21-2006, 07:52 AM
Posted By: <b>Alan O'Connor</b><p>Hi-<br />I collect T4's (Sacramento players only) and have 3--always looking for more! I know a few other collectors also have a small handful, but I'm not aware of the total population.<br />Alan O'Connor
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10-21-2006, 08:03 AM
Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>I must be going blind, I didn't notice the difference until it was pointed out. I'm posting both fronts side-by-side for additional comment.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1161352978.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1161352997.JPG">