Jeter and Today's baseball [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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10-05-2006, 12:00 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisHey, you anti-Jeter guys....beat that performance.....WOW ! I will never forget that "heads-up" play that Jeter pulled off several years ago against Oakland in the 3rd Play-off game. Oakland was leading the Yankees 2-0 in that Play-Off series. In a play that will go in history as one of the best post-seasons plays ever, Jeter scoots over from his SS position to 1/2 way down the 1st base line. He cuts-off the throw from the OF, then spins around and flips the ball to the catcher just in time to throw out the Oakland runner, who is trying to score. Oakland never recovered from this tremendous play, as the Yankees swept the remaining games to win that series. It was an AWESOME play......BB doesn't get much better than this. T-Rex TED

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10-05-2006, 12:30 AM

Posted By: Anonymousbottom line....Jeter is a stone cold clutch player.

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10-05-2006, 01:22 AM

Posted By: steve f.

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10-05-2006, 01:29 AM

Posted By: RhysWhen your team makes it to 12 straight postseason appearances and you are there for ALL of them, that gives you a lot of opportunity to get comfortable in the situation and many many chances to shine under the spotlight as well. In his first World Series Jeter batted .250 and guess what, his postseason batting average for his career is LOWER than his regular season batting average (.306 compared to .314 I believe). I would NEVER have thought that was true but I just looked it up. Clutch postseason hitter, yes. Overrated, YES.

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10-05-2006, 03:48 AM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffWow, this board can be pretty irrational and misinformed at times. Never is this more apparent than when discussing the Negro Leagues or Derek Jeter. These are two topics I happen to have interest in. I'm usually pretty good about quietly ignoring these kinds of threads, but this one was too hard to read and stay quiet. I figured this might be a good place for some actual facts. Whether you like Jeter or not, as you ruminate about the Yankee captain, at least do so with accurate information, not bogus propaganda that the Jeter/Yankee-haters would have you believe: 1. When YOUR team (the team that you play for and are the captain of) makes 12 straight postseasons in a row, you are either very good and one of the main contributors to their success, or very lucky and riding on the coattails of your teammates. Which one describes Derek Jeter? 2. In Jeter's 1st World Series, he did hit .250. That was his 3rd postseason series. In his 1st postseason series he hit .412. In his 2nd postseason series he hit .417. Including his .250 average in the World Series, he hit .361 in his first postseason. Oh, and he was a ROOKIE. Also, his team won. 3. Jeter's career postseason average is .315, not .306. 4. Jeter's career regular season average is .317, not .314. 5. Here are some comparisons the board will love: TY COBB: .366 career batting average. DEREK JETER: .317 career batting average. TY COBB: .262 career postseason batting average. DEREK JETER: .315 career postseason batting average. TY COBB: 104 points lower average in postseason than regular season. DEREK JETER: 2 points lower average in postseason than regular season. TY COBB: 24 seasons (all full seasons.) DEREK JETER: In his 12th season (all full seasons.) TY COBB: 0 World Series rings. DEREK JETER: 4 World Series rings (and counting.) TY COBB: = Overrated. DEREK JETER: = Underrated. TY COBB: = Alex Rodriguez DEREK JETER: = Joe DiMaggio TY COBB: = Wilt Chamberlain DEREK JETER: = Bill Russell TY COBB: = Loser DEREK JETER: = Winner 6. You'll notice that nowhere above did I mention the word "intangibles" to describe what Jeter brings to the playoff table. Anyone who has watched the Yankees in the playoffs from 1996 until now has seen that in action. To argue otherwise means you either haven't been watching, or are so blinded by Jeter/Yankee hatred that you have missed the artistry of one of the greatest winners of our era. Oddly, one might think that only Red Sox fans could be capable of falling into the "Derek-Jeter-is-Overrated Trap of Misinformation," but my experience has been that most Red Sox fans, as misguided as they are, usually tend to be educated baseball fans who actually watch baseball and know how clutch Jeter is and how important he is to the success of the Yankees. That's why they hate him so much. No, it seems to be Yankee-haters of the non-Red Sox fan variety that hate Derek Jeter the most. Why is that? My guess is that they hate the Yankees so much that they don't even watch them in the playoffs unless it's against their favorite team. This is why they are so misinformed about who Jeter is as a player and what it is that makes him so good. Believe it or not, there are some things that cannot be encapsulated in statistics. Even in baseball. -Ryan P.S. If being a fag means making $20,000,000 a year while playing shortstop for the Yankees and sleeping with hot super models, actresses and singers, I'd sure like to know how to become a fag.

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10-05-2006, 04:27 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJeter is as good as it gets. It's hard to objectively say he is overrated. Who would I rather have playing shortstop in a key game? Nobody.

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10-05-2006, 05:43 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI'm laughing my butt off at the notion that the reason Jeter went 5-5 last night was because he's had so much practice in the post-season. Gee, Rhys, if only you'd been the 25th man on the Yankees roster over the past 10 years you might have gone 4-5! Say what you want but Yogi Berra, with all of his 'exposure' to these sorts of situations, never had 8 hits over 2 games in the postseason. Jeter has.

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10-05-2006, 06:28 AM

Posted By: Jason LJeter is totally unlikable. plenty talented, certainly overexposed and way too much hyperbole. I would rather have Ozzie Smith Of course, I am a die hard NL guy who likes to watch players who don't appear to be *******s to the general public...but that is just me. kinda quirky, I know

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10-05-2006, 06:29 AM

Posted By: MVSNYCdid someone actually just say "jeter is overated"??? he is a lock for the HOF right now...has been absolutely dominent in his era (the main criteria for the Hall)...and even more impressive than his offensive numbers, is his defensive magic... i'm going to shea today for the Mets game 1...

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10-05-2006, 06:33 AM

Posted By: JayOne game doesn't make a post season but that one was sure a hell of a start. On another positive note for the Yankees, A-Rod hit the ball hard three of the four times he was up. Unfortunately, two line drives were at someone. Yankees in three over pussycats.

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10-05-2006, 07:12 AM

Posted By: john/z28jd I think the fact that theres a thread on a vintage baseball board after 1 game of the playoffs is proof enough of Jeter being overrated and people who love him not being able to accept that so they feel the need to defend him at every chance. Its not that hes not a very good player whos great in the clutch, its that he could bat 400,go 40/40 and not make an error all year and he wouldnt match the hype that has surrounded him since he first hit 300 because he plays in NY

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10-05-2006, 07:21 AM

Posted By: jay behrens12 years into a career...tons of media hype...loved by Yankeee fans...considered a great player...lock for the HOF...Mattingly Yup, he's a lock for the HOF PS...not a hater, I thought Leon had asked for a moritorium on new OT posts, but if he lets it slide, that's his call. Jay I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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10-05-2006, 07:39 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorJay, Now you're just making stuff up: Mattingly was "done" 6 years into his career. 12 years into his career his numbers looked like, well, Kirby Puckett's. Puckett is the closest thing the Twins have had to Jeter. Puckett is a HOFer, but Mattingly is not -- check their numbers and then answer the question, why? Something to do with Puckett's two World Series championships perhaps? Well, Jeter has 4. That's why Jeter is a lock if he died tomorrow. In order to be in the HOF you need 10 great seasons. Mattingly had 6, tops. The last time Mattingly hit over .300 in a full season, with > 20 HR and > 100 RBI was 1989. To compare Mattingly with Jeter and say Jeter's HOF status may be as tenuous as Mattingly's has become is just an effort to annoy Yankee fans by reminding them that their beloved Mattingly -- who Puckett named "Donnie Baseball" -- is not a surefire HOFer (even though Puckett, with the same numbers, is).

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10-05-2006, 07:54 AM

Posted By: leonPersonally I don't care too much about todays games and all...but this will be the thread to talk about all baseball going on today...pennant games, players etc....I am going to lock the other one. Nothing personal. I only want one going at a time though ...when this one gets too long we can lock it and start another...This IS a vintage baseball CARD chatboard. I don't mind members having a place, on the boards, to talk about current baseball though....in moderation...

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10-05-2006, 08:00 AM

Posted By: Josh AdamsIt's easy to look good, or to make it to 12 straight playoffs when your owner just buys up all the all-stars in the league. Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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10-05-2006, 08:00 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorMy original post was an impulsive shout of excitement after last night's game, and not intended to start a dialogue about today's baseball, which, I agree, really has little or no place on a vintage baseball card board.

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10-05-2006, 08:06 AM

Posted By: leonThanks for understanding. I think there is an overwhelming sentiment to talk about today's baseball games (not by me but by others). Like I say ....I don't mind the board providing that place...but in "a" contained thread....kind regards and carry on...

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10-05-2006, 08:10 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliJeter is a monster. Period. You can quote me all the Bill James stats you want. You can tell me he's a defensive liability and not even the best shortstop on his team. You can point to Bernie Williams and tell me he's got better postseason numbers with half the hype (which is true). You can even point out that stats would indicate that Jeter is not the "clutch" performer that people say he is. But when Jeter goes into the HOF, which he will, people will talk about what he meant to these teams he's been on - and NOT his statistics. I watch this guy play every day. For the past 11 years, there has ALWAYS been a Yankee I liked better - Paul O'Neill, Jorge Posada, Bernie Williams, Mariano Rivera. But the bottom line is this: Derek Jeter takes all the hype, all the media and fan scrutiny, all the pressures of playing for George Steinbrenner's Yankees, all the pressure of the EXPECTATIONS of winning the World Series every year, and consistently delivers. He's been a rock in that lineup since 1996, he's one of the most fundamentally sound players in the game, and he's a superstar. No, he's not Michael Jordan. He's not Gretzky. He's not Pujols. But you can throw all sorts of "close and late" numbers and sabermetric stats out the window with Jeter. Because when the Yankees desperately need a guy to come from out of nowhere, catch an errant throw and dish a shovel pass off to Posada, Jeter is there. When the Yankees need someone to dive face-first into the stands to catch a foul pop and inspire his team, Jeter is there. When the Yankees need someone to hit a leadoff home run in the Subway Series to get his team sparked, Jeter is there. And when they need someone to calmly go 5-for-5 and then deflect all the praise to his teammates, Jeter is there. If I'm building a new franchise today, Derek Jeter is the first guy I take. Not because I'm a Yankee homer, but because I want my first guy to be a leader who understands the importance of a team game - and can consistently deliver fundamentals at a very high level. Ozzie Smith? Great player, HOFer. Not in Jeter's league. -Al

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10-05-2006, 08:14 AM

Posted By: chris blandI saw Albert Pujols mentioned above as someone who isnt as good as the immortal Jeter. Pujols hit a 2 run HR in game 1 of his playoff series to lead the Cardinals to victory. Maybe if Pujols went out clubbing with Mariah Carey and had people like Johnny Damon, Bobby Abreu, Gary Sheffield and Alex Rodriguez batting before and after him, he could be thought of in the same class as Jeter...

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10-05-2006, 08:29 AM

Posted By: James FeaginComparing player batting averages and postseason performances separated by nearly one hundred years= OVERRATED.

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10-05-2006, 08:44 AM

Posted By: JayThe more I think about it, Jeter is probably the second best shortstop ever. Pretty amazing when the team also has the greatest closer ever and the player who may someday be regarded as the greatest third baseman ever. BTW, whoever said they preferred Ozzie Smith to Jeter needs to think again. I don't think Ozzie should even be in the HOF, let alone be compared to Jeter.

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10-05-2006, 08:52 AM

Posted By: chris blandAlex Rodriguez as the greatest third baseman ever? If I want a guy who will hit a 2-run homerun in a 10-3 ballgame, he would be my guy. Other than that, I can think of many others throughout history I would take over him. Cant argue with Rivera though...

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10-05-2006, 09:03 AM

Posted By: Jim ClarkeGot to love him... Actions are louder than words... Better start buying up those Little Sun Jeter Cards!!!! His true rookie card.

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10-05-2006, 09:04 AM

Posted By: JayChris--I agree but 100 years from now when people look at the numbers A-Rod may look like the best third baseman ever. Rivera is the no question best closer ever and the most valuable player in baseball over the last decade.

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10-05-2006, 09:05 AM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffJay, You might want to reconsider posting multiple times in threads asking for them to be deemed "OT" and have Leon lock or delete them. I say this because you start more OT threads than anyone else on the board and post regularly in every thread mentioning the word "steroids." I'm pretty sure that's not a word that would come up very often when discussing vintage cards, so those threads are probably all OT. It's interesting that you have no problem with threads about Barry Bonds or the Twins, but when Jeter gets mentioned, it's time for a thread to be locked. But like you said, you're not a hater, right? I'm all for OT threads being deleted or locked, or at least kept to a minimum, which hopefully will include ones about horse racing or football or other topics, even when moderators are interested in those subjects. As long as it is consistent and fair, which has usually been the case, we won't need to worry about having to ask for threads to be locked or deleted. It will just magically happen when it's appropriate. For all the other Jeter-haters, I would like to suggest one simple guideline when constructing your argument for why Jeter sucks. When comparing a player to Jeter, let's consider using a one-ring minimum requirement. Pujols is incredible. In fact, there are only 3 players that can even be considered when discussing the most clutch hitter in the game: David Ortiz, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols. Still, save the Pujols comparison until he gets his first ring. Why aren't you Jeter-haters pointing out that Ortiz is as clutch as Jeter? Oh, that's right, it doesn't count because he has Manny Ramirez hitting behind him and there are other good players on his team. According to you guys, it must be easy to be as clutch as Ortiz because all the players on his team don't suck. For Jeter to get any respect I think he'd have to resurrect the 1899 Cleveland Spiders and form an expansion team of zombies that he leads to a World Series victory. Actually, I take that back. He still wouldn't get any respect outside of the Yankee fan and zombie communities. And why is it unreasonable to compare postseason performance from one era to the next? Is it because the immortal Ty Cobb is beyond reproach? Yes, it is. Especially here. There's no denying Cobb is one of the greatest individuals ever to play. Too bad baseball is a team sport. If only Cobb had been a golfer or tennis player. Maybe then he could have won at least one championship in 24 years. He did win a bunch of batting titles, though. So he's got that going for him. Okay, enough from me on this thread. Feel free to continue arguing why U.L Washington was better than Derek Jeter and how Cobb just never had any decent teammates. -Ryan P.S. Alex Rodriguez sucks. Give me Brosius or Nettles any day. It has yet to be proven that the Yankees can win in spite of having Alex Rodriguez, the anti-Jeter on the team. His only redemption can come from an absolutely monster World Series where he is the reason the Yankees win. And then do it again 2 or 3 more times.

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10-05-2006, 09:19 AM

Posted By: joe brennanHow anybody can compare Jeter to Ty Cobb and then pick Jeter is unbelievable. But then again, its all apples and oranges. Just 1 thing to add. Bring the thread up again when Jeter hits over .400. People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

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10-05-2006, 09:23 AM

Posted By: runscottSince everyone else is throwing in their 2 pennies, here's mine... Jeter is great, and a lock for the HOF. I don't find Jeter particularly likeable, but don't dislike him either;however, I am a true Yankee-Hater. I also loved Don Mattingly and thought it was a crying shame that they never put it together until after he retired - he was incredibly likeable and yes, I would put him in the HOF. But he obviously hasn't had the caliber of career that has Jeter, even if you ignored Jeter's post-season play. As an Astros fan, I despise Pujols, but I would rather have him on my team than anyone else in either league, even Jeter. (Disclaimer, as I am also the guy who would trade Ichiro and Sexton to Cincinnati for Adam Dunn and minor league speedster).

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10-05-2006, 09:30 AM

Posted By: James Feagin"And why is it unreasonable to compare postseason performance from one era to the next? Is it because the immortal Ty Cobb is beyond reproach? Yes, it is. Especially here. There's no denying Cobb is one of the greatest individuals ever to play. Too bad baseball is a team sport." You answered your own question. It's unreasonable because baseball is a team game, Jeter himself would probably tell you one of the reasons he is so "clutch" is because of his teammates. So I will ask Ryan, how is it in any way comparable that a player with 65 post AB's can be evaluated with a player one hundred years apart with 400 post AB's? I understand your point, and its fun to challenge conventions of greatness, but it's only natural to glamorize history. You do that with your baseball focus, so others will as well. "Okay, enough from me on this thread. Feel free to continue arguing why U.L Washington was better than Derek Jeter and how Cobb just never had any decent teammates." The old "I get the last word and bail" technique. C'mon you're better than that. I think most would probably rater say that Jeter is not over-rated, but over-exposed. This "jealousy" is better directed at Fox and ESPN which seems to think there are a total of 4 teams in all of major league baseball. "P.S. Alex Rodriguez sucks." So is it stats or intangibles? Wouldn't you like to be making $25,000,000 and sleeping....nevermind. Look at A-Rods total post-season stats, which only paint a brief picture of his cumulative greatness. Yankees fans don't deserve A-Rod.

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10-05-2006, 09:31 AM

Posted By: Jason LYou mentioned: "The more I think about it, Jeter is probably the second best shortstop ever. Pretty amazing when the team also has the greatest closer ever and the player who may someday be regarded as the greatest third baseman ever. BTW, whoever said they preferred Ozzie Smith to Jeter needs to think again. I don't think Ozzie should even be in the HOF, let alone be compared to Jeter." That was me, and it's merely a preference, and I can think about it every day until I die, and I will always give you the same answer: Ozzie Smith over Jeter....who is your first pick at SS, as you mention that Jeter is second-best ever? Regardless, Ozzie is in the HOF, he was a first ballot, and no one else went in with him, so there are other voices behind mine that speak louder and with far more authority... BTW, I'm not arguing that Jeter's not great, or that he won't be Hall-worthy...I'm merely saying that you always need a guy to hate, he happens to be that guy, and I don't want him on my team if I were choosing sides in a sandlot game... It is interesting that so many people hate him though...

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10-05-2006, 09:32 AM

Posted By: Patrick McHughI may be wrong but this may be the first year in mlb history there is no 20 game winner. Discuss.

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10-05-2006, 09:37 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliRyan, you had me firmly in your camp until you wrote "Alex Rodriguez sucks." Alex Rodriguez most definitely does not suck. He's been a disappointment this year for sure. As a kid, Graig Nettles was my idol. And I was thrilled to get Scott Brosius. And between the two of them, in their entire careers as Yankees, they produced only one season that was as strong offensively as Rodriguez was THIS year, his worst season. That's Brosius' first year as a Yankee, when he hit .300 and drove in 98. If Graig Nettles or Scott Brosius EVER had a season where they hit .290 with 35 HR, 121 RBI, 113 runs scored, 15 stolen bases, and .302 with 85 RBI with RISP, Yankee fans would have done cartwheels. Rodriguez had a seriously off year (for him), and he'll probably be gone as a result of his whining and inability to deal with the pressure. But he's a dynamite player, in general, one of the better players of all-time. -Al PS - I also agree that Pujols is a monster, a better player than Jeter and just as important to his team.

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10-05-2006, 09:52 AM

Posted By: warshawlawI would take Jeter over Cobb any day. At shortstop. Jeter is a great player and anyone who says otherwise is ignoring the facts. He hits over .300 for a career from a position that is typically light hitting, and is young enough to reach 3000 hits. He also hits with power, for a middle infielder. The stat heads may say he's not a clutch performer, but the highlight reels say otherwise. He is involved in memorable play after memorable play and delivers big hits. The Yankees would have lost that game yesterday without his hitting and his fielding. Speaking of fielding, I agree that Jeter is not Ozzie Smith. Guess what? No one else is either. It never ceases to amaze me how people criticize Ozzie's HOF selection because he was an average hitter yet criticize those who advocate for Jeter in the HOF because he is not Ozzie Smith with a glove. The overall package is what should be discussed. Oz was a HOFer because he was one of the best fielders ever at his position (arguably the best) and a decent hitter for his position. Jeter is a HOFer because he is a superior hitter and a better than average fielder for his position. Compare Jeter to his contemporaries at his position. Who rivals him at shortstop for his career? A-Rod and Ripken (maybe, as he was at the tail end of his career at the start of Jeter's run), both HOFer material. That's a pretty short list of rivals. Jeter is one of the top 2 or 3 shortstops of his era, if not the top, and he has sustained it for 12 years in the most unforgiving baseball market in the world, with class and dignity. That is a HOFer in my book.

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10-05-2006, 10:01 AM

Posted By: Tim NewcombRe this comment: "The more I think about it, Jeter is probably the second best shortstop ever. Pretty amazing when the team also has the greatest closer ever and the player who may someday be regarded as the greatest third baseman ever." I'm a Steinbrenner-hater but not a Jeter-hater. He's a great player. So are the others mentioned. But this kind of comment...And Yankee fans wonder why there are so many Yankee-haters around? Pretty amazing organization! Amazing owner! Killer scouting system! Gee, do you think any of this amazingness could have anything to do with their amazing 500 kazillion in TV revenue and their amazing 400 kazillion payroll, and their truly amazing ability to buy any player on the planet??? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> NAAAH! After all, Jeter and Rivera are homegrown-- oh wait a minute, if they had come up with the Twins or Marlins, the Yankees would have had them after four years anyway. I'm also amazed how Yankee fans hate A-Rod. There seems to be some kind of inverse emotional logic where if you love Jeter, you hate to spew out all your negative stuff on somebody who is at least as talented as he is. Tim PS: Greatest shortstop ever: a guy named Honus. The others are WAY behind.

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10-05-2006, 10:03 AM

Posted By: Matt GoebelAlthough I equate rooting for the Yankees to rooting for the IRS, and the endless stream of mercenaries and sell-outs are very distasteful, and Goerge Steinbrenner is an aboniation - I find it very hard to dislike Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera. Jeter is unquestionably clutch/winner/intangibles whatever you want to call it, and Rivera has been the most powerful weapon in the game over the last 15 years. Both guys are also classy, and likeable off the field (although Jeter's perfume deal was a crack in his armor). I would take either of them on my team any time. WOW - that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be!

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10-05-2006, 10:09 AM

Posted By: prewarsportsLets get a few things straight. First, I never said Jeter sucks, he is a VERY good player period. I never claimed I was better than him which is just a stupid playground thing to say when you have nothing better to say in an argument. The guy is going to have 3000+ hits and probably a .305 career average when it is all said and done. Good enough for the Hall of fame but not even good enough to hold Ty Cobb's Jock. Second, I just looked up his stats Ryan. Going into this postseason he had 142 hits in 462 at bats for a .307 career postseason average. I then went to approx 10 different websites that all quote his career postseason average at .306. So unless all these websites are wrong, you are off on your numbers. Even if you factor in his 5/5 last night he is at about .310. He is not even in the top 10 all time MIDDLE INFIELDERS in postseason batting average. Now that is stone cold clutch! Once again I do NOT hate Jeter, I just get tired of people who are weirdly obsessed with a man-crush on the guy when his numbers simply do not justify it. When you have a .310 average in the most postseason at bats of all time, you are going to get some big hits.

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10-05-2006, 10:09 AM

Posted By: JayHonus Wagner

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10-05-2006, 10:13 AM

Posted By: BobInteresting that the Twins thread gets locked but the Yankees thread goes on... Typical.

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10-05-2006, 10:23 AM

Posted By: JayI think we should unlock Bob's Twinkie thread. After all, they only have two more games left this season so it won't be up for long.

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10-05-2006, 10:35 AM

Posted By: Jim ClarkeI vote to unlock it as well! As long as we do not talk about the Braves/Twins World Series...Meltdown

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10-05-2006, 10:35 AM

Posted By: chris blandJeter is a fantastic player, but how anyone can claim he is underrated is beyond me. I dont know who is "underrating" him - its certainly not the press or the broadcasters of the games. Jeter gets more positive publicity than the Pope does in Vatican city...

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10-05-2006, 10:39 AM

Posted By: joe brennanApples to Oranges, apples to oranges. You cannot compare todays game with the stars from 100 years ago. Power stats, blah blah. Small parks, juiced balls, juiced other things. It's how much greater the player was to the players he played with. Cobb was a man amoung boys. He did everything better in his era. Gretsky, a man amoung boys. Jim Brown, 12 game seasons, a man amoung boys. Jerry Rice, the greatest ever. Weren't Yankee stadium fences move in 50 or 60 feet? The monuments use to be in play. The games has changed but the great ones stand out. When Ruth hit 60 HR's he hit more than 21 other teams combined? How far above the players they play with currently is the measure. Jeter is agreat player but is he that much better than everyone he plays with? He's got a guy playing to the right of him everyday that would beg to differ. People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

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10-05-2006, 11:27 AM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"First, I never said Jeter sucks, he is a VERY good player period. I never claimed I was better than him which is just a stupid playground thing to say when you have nothing better to say in an argument." Yeah, you're right. Here's a better thing to say in an argument: "Jeter is great in the postseason because he gets so much practice under pressure." That's brilliant logic. Perhaps you could apply to NASA, they could use a scientist like you. "Once again I do NOT hate Jeter, I just get tired of people who are weirdly obsessed with a man-crush on the guy when his numbers simply do not justify it." Gee, that's another intelligent thing to say I suppose when the argument is not going your way. Maybe when the NASA thing doesn't work out you could become a trial lawyer and employ some of those skills of persuasion. I'm actually a Mets fan and a Yankee hater. Unlike you, however, I'm capable of appreciating a "VERY good player" who will be a first ballot HOF inductee.

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10-05-2006, 11:38 AM

Posted By: prewarsportsJeff You need to realize here Jeff, we are talking about Derek Jeter, not your mother. Why would attack me personally, because I dont want to cuddle up cozy with Jeter? I have said in 5 different posts that he is very good. Hall of Famer, yes. Good player, Yes, overrated yes. Why does this opinion of mine which is shared by a HUGE number of baseball fans subject me to personal attacks from you? I dont know, maybe its the man-crush thing. Save this sort of personalized passionate attacks for when they are called for, not a worthless discussion on a public forum over friggin Derek Jeter. Grow up man.

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10-05-2006, 11:44 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanNo, we're not talking about my mother. But if you're going to insult me be prepared to get it back, harder. Save your insults and then you don't have to be abused. It's a simple calculus, really.

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10-05-2006, 11:54 AM

Posted By: James FeaginI fail to see where Rhys attacked you Jeff. However, there are many sentences where you've been the provoker. Perhaps you meant that by personally insulting Jeter he is insulting you? It should be no surprise the Jeter gets all of this glory heaped upon him, he does play in the media capital of North America. Of course legends, perceived or otherwise, are going to be formed. For the record, given the choice to start my team with Jeter or A-Rod, I go with A-Rod. By the way, what are Jeter's stats in decisive games?

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10-05-2006, 11:59 AM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesJeter is very interesting. Clearly a talented player whose popularity far outweighs his performance. Another player with similar attributes and popularity is Clemente. The main difference between these two players is that Jeter strikes out more and steals more bases. I enjoy Jeter's play, but root against the Yankees.

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10-05-2006, 12:02 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI don't believe once in this thread the name Miguel Tejada has come up. He is a shortstop who puts up monster numbers every year- try 150 RBI in a season- and has also played in something like 1070 consecutive games. Now he's really underrated if nobody even mentions him.

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10-05-2006, 12:09 PM

Posted By: leonAfter I explained my reasoning for locking the other thread, and saying to carry on in this one, that has to be the most stupid thing you have ever said on this board..... edited to say maybe I took Tbob's (hi Bob) remark personally...which it wasn't, I don't think....at any rate I couldn't have cared less which thread stayed as long as it was only one....New baseball barely interests me....for reasons discussed before....I still love to play though....

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10-05-2006, 12:19 PM

Posted By: Dan KotelesJump for Jeter

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10-05-2006, 12:26 PM

Posted By: JayBoof Bonser pitching for the Twinkies. Could this be the next Walter Johnson? Well, at least we won't have the Twinkies to kick around much longer.

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10-05-2006, 12:27 PM

Posted By: Jason Lbut you totally lost me on that one. what are you trying to say? and who is Ellen G? in no way do I think Jeter (no matter how much I detest him) looks like a British cigarette, so I don't see the resemblance TBob, even though Leon disagrees, I have to say that this midwestern-raised boy got a little snicker from that remark

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10-05-2006, 12:27 PM

Posted By: chris blandBoof Bonser is a twinkie jay...

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10-05-2006, 12:34 PM

Posted By: JayThanks Chris--I'm flexible with my taunts

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10-05-2006, 12:37 PM

Posted By: warshawlawtwo frontline starters down the tubes...what's next, locusts, hail, rivers turning to blood...

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10-05-2006, 01:05 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...offend some people, like me, as much as any racist remarks do. If you think it is funny to use that word loosely in a public forum, that is your prerogative, but it is also my right to call you a bigot.

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10-05-2006, 01:10 PM

Posted By: Mike MattisonIf Jeter wasn't a Yankee he'd be Alan Trammell or Roberto Alomar. A very good player that puts up solid numbers each year. I'd take Jose Reyes or Michael Young at SS over Jeter.

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10-05-2006, 01:22 PM

Posted By: JayMike-Trammell was a solid ballplayer so it is no disgrace to compare Jeter to him, even though Jeter is a better player who brings much more to the table than Trammell ever did. On the other hand Alomar was a whiney D-Bag who spit at an umpire. He is so far from Jeter that I would not even use their names in the same sentence. Reyes and Young are both solid ball players and may some day be in Jeter's class but they need to put alot more good years together before we can make that comparison. I like Young alot; Reyes needs to learn the strike zone but brings tremendous excitement to the game.

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10-05-2006, 01:25 PM

Posted By: steve f.

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10-05-2006, 01:26 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanReyes is an interesting comparison -- totally different player than Jeter but equally as important to his team and a very disruptive player. As a Mets fan, I'd like to see him at this level for 10 years before comparing him to Jeter. Reyes may also be the MVP of the NL. Funny thing that people don't recall about a young Jeter: he was thought by many in NY at the beginning of his career to be no better than the equal to Rey Ordonez, the Mets then-shortstop.

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10-05-2006, 01:30 PM

Posted By: Dan KotelesI like how much Jeter is adorned here. Jeter is an enemy now, my definition to my other word describing him earlier. I have heard some say in a sentence ,"i effin eff"....so did that mean he screwed himself ?.....define "EFF". I use alot of slang, if this is all it takes to offend some, then I know for sure that you do not donate to ST.Judes or send money to starving children or donate to your local Humane Society.....you know ,the sorta more important things to worry about.

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10-05-2006, 01:32 PM

Posted By: T206Collector"Funny thing that people don't recall about a young Jeter: he was thought by many in NY at the beginning of his career to be no better than the equal to Rey Ordonez, the Mets then-shortstop." That's a little misleading. Rey Rey couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag, but he made lots of dazzling plays at short. But eventually the utter lack of hitting caught up to him and all comparisons were dropped.

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10-05-2006, 01:36 PM

Posted By: ScottIngoldI believe Ellen G is Ellen Degenarass. (sp) Did i read this right.... Someone called Jeter a fag ? Are some of Seans 5th grade friends here ?

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10-05-2006, 01:39 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...to engage in an exchange of insults with you. Your responses say more harmful things about you than I could, in good conscience, write.

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10-05-2006, 01:39 PM

Posted By: BobAnd if you stop and think about the fact that I noticed the Twins thread was locked and didn't scroll up and see your reasoning on a different thread, maybe you beat me out for stupidest comment on the board, at least the most arrogant. And pardon me if I took it personally too...

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10-05-2006, 01:45 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAgreed that Ordonez couldn't hold a candle to Jeter. But at the beginning of their careers-which began roughly at the same time-it was a legitimate question as to which was better. Hard to believe now.

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10-05-2006, 01:46 PM

Posted By: Bob" I did kill another thread by a "less than everyday participant" You won't have to worry about any more comments from a "less than everyday participant," I'm out of here.

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10-05-2006, 01:51 PM

Posted By: leonIt wasn't your thread I deleted. I wouldn't have done that without emailing you first. I always email folks I know if there is an issue. I hope you don't leave but if you want to then that's your call. As I tell everyone that leaves....please feel free to come back whenever you want to. Sorry you took it so personally.

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10-05-2006, 02:22 PM

Posted By: PCLooks like the Twins are going to delete themselves from the post-season (down 2-0 to the As), so maybe that other OT thread could be deleted at this point? Twins theads get locked ... wahhhhh Yankees threads don't ..... wahhhhh If Jeter gets the MVP .... wahhhhh If Mauer doesn't .... wahhhh Big market teams .... wahhhh If Twins get swept .... wahhhh "There's no crying in baseball." edited to add: White Sox ... wahhhh

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10-05-2006, 02:31 PM

Posted By: barrysloateWho would have thought that in a an innocuous thread about the merits of Derek Jeter all hell would break loose? There are at least three different personal attacks going on here at the same time.

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10-05-2006, 02:33 PM

Posted By: chris blandI think thats why non-card related threads are kept at a minimum Barry - looks like its a good idea too...

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10-05-2006, 02:34 PM

Posted By: barrysloateHere's something to change the subject- Dodgers had runners on first and second with no outs and the next batter hit a single to Shawn Green. Green threw to the plate and got both runners on simultaneous tags- on one throw. You see that about once a decade!

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10-05-2006, 02:46 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...at work pointed out that the double tag at home was featured in the movie Major League.

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10-05-2006, 02:49 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI remember the Yankees doing it in the 1980's and I'm pretty sure one of the two runners tagged out was Dale Berra. Anyone else remember that?

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10-05-2006, 02:50 PM

Posted By: Tom BoblittThis has degenerated into a real quagmire here, huh? Lots of formerly rational people.....

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10-05-2006, 02:56 PM

Posted By: Kevin CummingsBarry: Now look what you've gone and done - you've given all the Jeter bashers ammunition. Derek Jeter has never thrown out or tagged out two players on one play in a playoff game. Of course, there is a game tonight.....<img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> Kevin

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10-05-2006, 02:59 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliBarry: Dale Berra and Bobby Meacham, I believe. One of the low points. -Al

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10-05-2006, 03:03 PM

Posted By: Jason LThat was Carlton Fisk of the White Sox that did the tagging, if I am not mistaken...yes? I will like Derek Jeter as soon as he nails two runners at the plate on the same play, provided that he also catches his own throw and does the tagging...only then, will I become a Jeter fan.

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10-05-2006, 03:09 PM

Posted By: Anonymous"Dale Berra and Bobby Meachum," said Randolph between innings on ESPN.

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10-05-2006, 03:14 PM

Posted By: runscottHey Tom, and one formerly irrational person. I fell on my head a few months ago and haven't been able to have a decent coherent fight since...sad, I know. Even Jay won't yell at me anymore <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> Barry - Tejada isn't mentioned because he's a 'roid user....didn't you read the Clemens thread? And Leon, I didn't know you liked to play baseball - how does one get into that again at your age? ...or my even older age? I was thinking about getting in an almost-50 league, but wouldn't know how to begin getting warmed up.

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10-05-2006, 03:24 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThat's right, he was accused. Soon there won't be anyone left except the skinny guys. It was Fisk who made the two tags, and Berra and Meachum sounds right. Didn't hear Randolph but he was probably playing then and saw it.

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10-05-2006, 03:31 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliFrom NYFans.com: On August 4, 1985, Bobby Meacham was involved in one of the strangest plays in Yankee history when Meacham and Dale Berra were both tagged out at home plate by Carlton Fisk on the same play. It went something like this: Dale Berra was on 1st and Meacham on 2nd, Rickey Henderson blasted a hanging curve into the gap in left center. Meacham, however, was convinced that Chisox centerfielder Luis Salazar would catch the ball, so Meacham stayed put on 2nd so he could tag up and go to 3rd upon Salazar’s miraculous catch. Berra, however, held no such convictions, and he began to run full speed toward the stationary Meacham. Bobby saw Dale running toward him and panicked. He got his feet twisted and fell to the ground. He got up and both men reached 3rd at about the same time, Berra a whisker behind Meacham. Gene Michael, the 3rd base coach, threw his hands up in confusion, but both runners sped toward home. Fisk took the relay throw from Ozzie Guillen (Yes, THAT Ozzie Guillen) and tagged them both—boom. boom. out. out. Yankee manager Billy Martin growled “I’ve never seen a play like that in grammar school, let alone the Major Leagues.” Willie Randolph was indeed the Yankee second baseman in 1985. -Al

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10-05-2006, 03:47 PM

Posted By: JasonJeter could not hold Ozzie Smith's jockstrap at short. Jeter is media hyped and overrated alot. I would not even say he is in the top 30 best big leaguers today. Ozzie was the best fielding SS in history bar none! There was none even close to him. Whoever says there was is smoking meth. He was not A good hitter but his fielding far surpassed his hitting. Jeter has been lucky enough to be on 4 WS Championship teams and made a few nice plays, but he is not HOF material yet. Jason

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10-05-2006, 05:17 PM

Posted By: JayJason--I already told you that Derek Jeter is the second best shortstop in baseball history. How can he not be HOF worthy? Also, my guess is that Jeter would prefer not to hold Ozzie Smith's jock strap which addresses both your statement and some other uninformed statement about Jeter's sexual preferences. BTW, granted that Ozzie Smith was a great fielder and a really neat back flipper but I hardly think that he was that much better than Omar Vizquel with a glove. In fact, Vizquel's lifetime fielding percentage is .984 and Ozzie's is .978 and they both covered alot of ground. Vizquel also outhits Ozzie by 14 points.

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10-05-2006, 05:29 PM

Posted By: Ricky YWow its amusing and sometimes scary to see (as a newbie) how these posting morph into different tangents..but I digress... As for original topic on hand...I have gained a lot of admiration and respect for Derek Jeter as years have gone by... setting aside my disdain for Steinbrenner and ignoring the financial advantage the Yankees have over most everyone to acquire and develop players, I marvel at his consistency and the manner in how he conducts himself on the field and the distractions that come with playing in New York. It takes a special player to succeed in New York, you have to embrace the limelight and handle the pressure. When you think of the Yankees in the last 10 years or so...I automatically associate his name at the top of the list. I wouldn't be suprised to see his statue enshrined in center field after his retirement.

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10-05-2006, 05:37 PM

Posted By: gerardJETER is the 21st century Mantle, Ruth, enjoy watching him play!

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10-05-2006, 05:47 PM

Posted By: warshawlawLet’s look at the real numbers for Smith and Jeter. Career as hitters, Jeter is far better than Smith, bearing in mind that Jeter has had 6,970 at bats in 12 years while Smith had 9,396 at bats in 19 years. YRSHITSBAOBP 192460 .262 .337 122150.318.388 Jeter’s BA is 56 points higher than Smith’s; his on base percentage is 52 points higher. He reaches base far more often than Smith did, so much so that Jeter has already scored 20 more runs than Smith (1,277 vs. 1,257) in 2/3 of the at bats. Jeter is a far better hitter and a far better run scorer than Smith ever was. Does Jeter’s edge in hitting evaporate with Smith’s purported edge in fielding so that Smith emerges as the far superior player? I think not. Their pertinent fielding stats at short through their careers (excluding games they didn’t play SS, Smith played 2511 games, Jeter played 1670 games): NAME G PO A E DP FP lgFP SMITH2511 4249 8375 281 1590 .978 .966 JETER1670 2533 4277 175 884 .975 .972 1670/2511 = 66.5%. Jeter has played 66.5% of the games Smith played. If we multiply Smith’s raw totals by .665 to equalize the number of games they played we get the following: PO A E DP 282655691871057 Jeter’s numbers in the same categories: PO A E DP 2533 4277 175 884 Bear in mind that assists and double plays are partially dependent on the skills of other players on their teams, including the types of pitchers they are behind. Ozzie played behind a lot of ground ball pitchers, who were successful partially because the Cardinals fielded teams that were superior defensively. Jeter has played behind a lot of strikeout and fly ball pitchers. Jeter has also played with some lead-handed second basemen (Alfonso Soriano comes to mind). Is Smith a better fielder? Absolutely. Is he so much better a fielder that he cancels out Jeter’s superior hitting skills? I could see that argument being made. But was Smith so great a fielder that he overwhelmingly stands head and shoulders above Jeter? No way. Not even close. If anything, I’d say at this point that Jeter and Smith are about equal in value. If Smith is a HOFer, so is Jeter.

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10-05-2006, 05:56 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)Wow - what happened in this thread? Pretend we're all in a round room - now everyone find a corner and take a timeout... By the way JETER SUCKS!!! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Just kidding. He's without a doubt a fantastic player that has been fortunate to have played on Yankee teams where the ownership feels that they will go to all lengths to win by signing lots of above average (ok, great) players and then going for all the marbles every year. Jeter happens to be one of a supporting cast of really good players. That's not to detract from his accomplishments because he will be the Yankees leader in many different categories by the time he retires (assuming that he plays that long and can endure). I sure wish the management/ownership for my favorite team had the same deep pockets and philosophy (just win baby - ok, plagerised from Al Davis) that the Yankees have.

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10-05-2006, 06:10 PM

Posted By: barrysloateWhen Jeter is at bat or in the field, take a look at his eyes. He has the burning passion of a winner. He has the body language of a winner. He will always be a winner and he is the greatest shortstop the Yankees ever had. Those who think he is overrated just don't like the Yankees.

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10-05-2006, 06:16 PM

Posted By: joe brennanI can't even comprehend what I am seeing from this board. A thread about modern basball has turned into this garbage? Opinions are fine, and everyone's got one. But attacks and name calling and berating. For what? And to think we banned Sean for being immature. I'll sit back and think about the adults on this board. I think you should stick to opinions about cards. Seems like the only way everyone can remain mature. Joe People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

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10-05-2006, 06:35 PM

Posted By: Patrick McHughCal Ripken JR. In 2302 games at shortstop his fielding percentage was.979 - better than Smith or Jeter. A.L. ROY, 2 Time MVP, 2 Time all-star game MVP, Voted to the MLB All century team, this man was the best ss ever.

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10-05-2006, 06:44 PM

Posted By: Chris CountsIf you check out just about any modern major league baseball team forum (or football, basketball, etc ...), they all routinely devolve into mudslinging matches. It's amazing how much more personally people take a debate when the honor of their favorite team or player is at stake. Could anybody imagine a debate over t206 backs ever getting this ugly? Or somebody calling a collector a "fag" for prefering a Sweet Caporal to a Polar Bear? Actually, I can't imagine calling anybody a "fag" for any reason, but apparently some people in this world have run out of more intelligent words to use in their vocabularies. By the way, I hate the Yankees more than any team in sports history, but if I was putting together a team, he'd be my first pick. Stats tell only part of the story. Jeter is a stone cold winner. He'll have a plaque on the wall at Yankee Stadium one day, right next to the Babe ...

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10-05-2006, 07:03 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)I think the fag comment was a joke. I didn't write it but I don't think it was meant as a personal attack against Jeter or his fans. Barry - you've got that right - Jeter is the greatest shortstop the Yankees have ever had, period. He is a winner, thank goodness he was drafted by the Yankees instead of some lowly team where he'd probably still be good but he'd be suffering... Just out of curiosity do you think Jeter would have made a winner out of the Seattle Mariners? What about them A's???

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10-05-2006, 07:16 PM

Posted By: jay behrensJay, so youa re telling us that the the greatest defensive players at their position have no business being in the HOF and that the HOF is soley reserved for the greatest hitters and pitchers, regardless how much damage they do to their team defensively? If one dimesional players like Killebrew and Kiner can get into the HOF, then why can't defensive wizards like Ozzie, Maz and Brooks? I thought the HOF was supposed to be for the greatest players, and to me, this means offense and defense. FP is pretty meaningless as I pointed out in the HOF thread, but I'll do it again. Omar has a little over 13k fielding chances in 18 seasons. Ozzie had almost 15k chances in 19 years. Somehow, I don't think Omar is getting to 2k ball next season, thus proving that Ozzie had much better range. This means that Ozzie gets to more balls. Some of these balls he gets to, he gets errors for. These balls are base hits if Omar is playing SS. I'll take Ozzie knocking down a ball and getting an error over Omar not getting to it all and having base hit go through and runners advances a few bases. Ryan, it had everthing to with Leon asking for no OT posts for awhile and this threat got started the next day. I know I start OT threads, but I also respect requests that Leon makes. I'm a supposed trouble maker, so if I can honor simple requests from Leon, I don't see why other supposed good citizens can't do likewise. The number of rings does not make a player great. Or maybe Ernie Banks is just another bum. Winning rings takes a team. There is not a single player that can win a ring by himself, otherwise the Giants would have wona few titles when Bonds was posting monster numbers. No one here is saying Jeter sucks. If they are, then I agree, they are idiots. The point is the he is vastly overrated and overhyped. Would I love to see him on the Twins? Sure, but he wouldn't be the second coming of whomever if he didn't play for the Yankees. Gerard, passing whatever you are smoking. Jay I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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10-05-2006, 07:18 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesNow that you mention it, Sweet Caporal does sound a lot less manly than Polar Bear. It is Piedmont backs that T-Rex's new set has, right. That should be ok too. I never thought of the t206 back fag factor before. I don't even know all of the backs, but El Principe de Gales don't sound too straight.

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10-05-2006, 07:41 PM

Posted By: PCOzzie Smith got to a lot of balls others had no chance at, but he was such a revered fielder in his playing days, that I suspect he did not get charged with errors that lesser fielders would have been charged with. I can hear the official scorers now: "If Ozzie couldn't hold on to it, it must be a hit."

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10-05-2006, 08:07 PM

Posted By: Anonymous"it had everthing to with Leon asking for no OT posts for awhile and this threat got started the next day. I know I start OT threads, but I also respect requests that Leon makes. I'm a supposed trouble maker, so if I can honor simple requests from Leon, I don't see why other supposed good citizens can't do likewise." Never saw the request for no OT posts. Had I seen such a post, I wouldn't have posted.

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10-05-2006, 08:10 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)All this talk about fags - in the UK a fag is a cigarette... I guess that kind makes it on topic with T-cards...

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10-05-2006, 08:11 PM

Posted By: leonOn the 1st, I believe, I asked for a moratorium on OT posts for 2 days. The recent threads were done after that but not much. My request was to keep it in one thread then I locked the other...thereby pissing Tbob off with my reaction to his statement. My current state of mind makes me think we are better off talking cards...

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10-05-2006, 08:27 PM

Posted By: Aaron CowanI will gladly say that I despise Jeter and the Yankees. Its a shame that a better fielding SS has to play third to make room for the pretty boy. However, come playoffs he is pretty ridiculous. As far as taking him over Pujols, Manny, Ortiz, or Bonds, I don't think so. Jeter is respected but I can think of many situations that those other players would get an intentional pass whereas Jeter would be pitched too (and probably get a frickin' double or something). Postseason experience is overrated. Who's to say someone won't shine in their first postseason. What about the Marlins a few years ago when the beat Jeter and the Yanks. As far as experience went the Yanks had them whipped but the Marlins came out on top. With that said, if its just about the postseason Jeter is fantastic. But from the beginning to end of a season, give me Pujols, Manny, or Ortiz anyday. Aaron Cowan acowan19@gmail.com

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10-05-2006, 09:11 PM

Posted By: Gilbert MainesI have been developing an opinion, Leon, regarding Forum behavior. It may be premature right now, but it seems like the group needs to blow off some steam periodically. It does not matter what the subject is, it seems. We have observed the Sudanese thread, the Hijacked Delete thread, and several other more recent similar diversions. Sticking only to cards might not be the solution. I do not think that a discussion about a star baseball player is inherently risky. However, the horse racing threads have performed well. I don't know.

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10-05-2006, 09:11 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWith all the "Dan's" posting here I'm glad we all use our last names in our posts. I grew up a Red Sox fan and can not stand the Yankees, but I reserve my hatred for Steinbrenner....I've always found it hard to hate a guy like Derek Jeter. How can anyone hate a guy like that? He's not an a-hole to the fans or the press. He's a great player, maybe not the greatest, but anyone denying his greatness is being irrational. And if the Yankees and their fans want to see A-Rod gone I'm sure the Sox would love to have him.

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10-05-2006, 09:34 PM

Posted By: runscottHey, why not compare Jeter to HOF shortstops of the past? Heck, just compare him to former YANKEE HOF ss's....Phil Rizzuto...sigh. Now there's a jockstrap Derek could hold up. (Edited to avoid being anonymous)

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10-05-2006, 09:39 PM

Posted By: Tim JamesAll this talk about Yankees and Red Sox reminds me of how my Reds kicked butt in '75 and '76.I saw my first ML game in '75 at the old Riverfront Stadium against the Cardinals.I was glued to the TV in the subsequint WS games.

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10-05-2006, 09:52 PM

Posted By: Anonymouswell.... ...i guess both Mr. Jeter and the red sox certainly have shown us what they are made of this year <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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10-05-2006, 10:31 PM

Posted By: Tim JamesJeter has the "bring it" going on.I'm actually ruting for the Yanks !!

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10-05-2006, 10:42 PM

Posted By: PrewarsportsAmen Joe Brennen! I could not have said it better. In the 8 years I have been a part of this forum since before it was even N54 and was on the FullCount board, I have never seen anything so ridiculous. It reminds me of when the Wentz brothers used to get into it daily with us for no reason. This is a Baseball Card forum that is supposed to be fun and people are being rude and insulting over whether Derek Jeter is overrated or not? I can see getting into it over someone ripping you off or something, but Jeter? What is the point? I used to not understand why Off Topic threads were discouraged but now I know EXACTLY where Leon is coming from. Why not just start one thread a month like the "recent Pickup" threads and title it "OFF TOPIC" That way people who dont want to deal with the name calling and insults can just never click in there and live in ignorant bliss. People who are confrontation and need to blow off some steam or want to be insulting can go in there all day long and the people who only care about cards will never have to see it. Rhys

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10-05-2006, 10:55 PM

Posted By: steve f My apolgies to the Mod, and those board members I had offended with my "shoot from the hip" post, directed to another member. I will think before I 'speak' in all future posts. Thankyou, Steve F

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10-05-2006, 11:05 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI think Mr. Sloate pretty well summed up this thread.

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10-06-2006, 04:58 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI make a motion that discussion of Derek Jeter be banned from this board. He is trouble with a capital "T."

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10-06-2006, 05:14 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAgreed. Too many man-crushes going on, Rhys. We need to dial the testosterone down a bit.

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10-06-2006, 07:27 AM

Posted By: warshawlaw"We're not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that." --Jerry

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10-06-2006, 07:34 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThere is nothing wrong with it, but using the word "fag" on a baseball card chat board, even in a supposedly humorous context, is inappropriate. You have to have enough sense to know in advance that not everyone will find it funny.

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10-06-2006, 08:00 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI'm a long-time Yankee fan (I grew up 2 blocks away from Phil Rizzuto in Hillside, NJ). But, like you, (conversely) I have never hated the Red Sox. I was an avid Ted Williams fan as a kid. I saw him hit HR's into the upper RF stands at the Stadium and I was happy for him. I was fortunate to see him, Joe DiMaggio, Stan Musial and Jackie Robinson play. Obviously, I am now an avid Derek Jeter fan. But, I'm also an avid Nomar Garciaparra fan. Both these guys play the game like the players I remember from my youth. I followed Nomar's career from when he played AA for the Trenton team. Your Red Sox made a big mistake when they did not hold on to Nomar. This season I am rooting for the Dodgers to win in the NL....so Nomar finally gets to play in the World Series. T-Rex TED

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10-06-2006, 09:41 AM

Posted By: Dan Kotelesappropriate times is when sense is used. I will not state any opinion of you or your comment. Common sense is not needed on a Jeter board, it just doesnt matter.

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10-06-2006, 09:42 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI was really disappointed when the Sox traded Nomar....and during the 2004 Series it just seemed "wrong" that they were playing without him. I would love to see the Dodgers get him a ring this year.

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10-06-2006, 10:36 AM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffRhys, It seems like you have the ability to cling to a belief in spite of evidence that it is false, so I'm sure you'll find a way to disagree with me, but... Derek Jeter has 147 hits in 467 postseason at bats. According to my screwy calculator math, that means a .315 batting average. According to your dead accurate anti-Jeter math, he's hitting .306. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Why let the numbers get in the way of your belief in a particular statistic, right? Also, Jeter has 2,150 hits in 6,790 career at-bats. Again, I'm not smart enough to use your complex anti-Jeter math formula, so all I can do is divide the number of hits by the number of at-bats. This is why I am left with my obviously inaccurate belief that Jeter has a .317 career batting average. I would think there are many Red Sox fans that would give you the Nobel Prize for Mathematics if you could figure out a way to apply your new formula to winning percentages thus allowing the Red Sox to make the playoffs in spite of having fewer wins and more losses than the Yankees. Care to enlighten us with the magic formula? -Ryan